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TERRY GROSS, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR, I'm Terry Gross. The first time I interviewed comic and actor Jenny Slate, she told me that when she was in her 20s, she felt like an impostor adult. That interview was 10 years ago, when Slate was 32. Now she's a mother. Her daughter was born during the COVID lockdown. Getting married, getting pregnant and the pain and joy of giving birth are at the center of Slate's new comedy special, "Seasoned Professional," which is streaming on Amazon. In her earlier Netflix comedy special, "Stage Fright," I learned that she grew up in a house her family believed was haunted.
Slate is back on our show, and there's lots more to talk about. She co-wrote and starred in the Oscar-nominated animated film "Marcel The Shell With Shoes On," adapted from the web series that she co-created. She's done voice work for other animated films and TV shows, including "Bob's Burgers," "Big Mouth," "The Lego Batman Movie," "The Secret Life Of Pets" and "Zootopia." She played a laundromat customer in the Academy Award-winning film "Everything Everywhere All At Once." She was a regular on "The Kroll Show" and had a recurring role on "House Of Lies." Although she was on just a few episodes of "Parks And Recreation," a lot of people know her for her role as Mona-Lisa Saperstein, one of the Saperstein twins. She starred in the movie "Obvious Child," which was the occasion for our first interview.
Let's start with a clip from her new comedy special. Here she is talking about giving birth to her daughter.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
JENNY SLATE: I had a baby. I'm not trying to skirt the issue or, like, deny it. Like, I did it, I did it.
(LAUGHTER)
SLATE: She's there. But, like, it does still feel like - I'm like, it was me, like, I did it? Like, it's hard to wrap my mind around it. And, like, I was pregnant for a long time, and I understood that I was. But, like, even on the way to the hospital, when my body was, like, really hurting and stuff was starting to leak out...
(LAUGHTER)
SLATE: I was just like, kind of feels like someone's gonna sub in here, though.
(LAUGHTER)
SLATE: Like, it's just such an extreme experience that I just was like, I don't know, it just doesn't feel like something I would do, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
SLATE: Like, would I knock on someone's door after four dates at 2 a.m. and be like, I just need to tell you I'm in love with you? Like, yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
SLATE: Extreme stuff, I've done it. But, like, this? I was like, oh, I don't know. It just doesn't seem like what she would do. And, like...
(LAUGHTER)
SLATE: Anytime something's been hard or I haven't wanted to do it, like, I've always just been able to quit or be fired.
(LAUGHTER)
SLATE: It's just so - it just felt like - I just don't feel like this was meant to be sent. Like, I wanted to have the baby, but I was like, did you mean for me to do this, though? Like...
GROSS: Jenny Slate, welcome back to FRESH AIR. That clip is so funny.
SLATE: Thank you.
GROSS: So I'm wondering - you know, I said that in your 20s, you felt like an impostor adult. Now that you're a mother, do you feel like a genuine, actual, real adult?
SLATE: Well, I guess so, but I think I've also started to understand that that definition is, like, really rather subjective, or it doesn't mean one thing. But, you know, do I feel capable? Do I feel like I'm supposed to be here doing what I'm doing? Yeah, I do. But I still have the same personality that I've always had. And that's rather - it's kind of a stunner, I guess.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: Who did you expect to be after you became a mother?
SLATE: It's so strange but it's like, I do say to my husband sometimes, like, when is Ida, our daughter - is she going to have a moment where she's like, oh, I'm calling her mom but, like, this is Jenny, you know? It's just Jenny. It's like, I think I thought maybe some - I mean, I think the good thing is that my cheaper vanities have kind of fried off in the exhaustion and also the thing, like, seeing - you know, connecting to things that are really, really meaningful in parenting. But I think I just thought maybe I would be calmer or be given info that I definitely have not been given. I have to keep finding it.
GROSS: You know, you say in your special that, you know, people think my feelings are too much and no one wants to deal with them. What kind of feelings do you think are perceived as too much?
SLATE: Being very sensitive. Let's see. Yeah, it's hard to think about it now, but I think - because when I say it out loud, there's a part of me that's like, no, you're good, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
SLATE: But the fact is that it's, yeah, sensitivity, insecurity. But I think the main one is maybe not a feeling but a behavior. And it's the, like, constantly checking to see if the other person - how they're perceiving a situation or, like, what does your face mean? Why are you making that face? It seems today that you have, like, a micro - a tiny, micro bad mood. What's it about? What's going to happen? Why is it there? Is it going to lead to something worse? Is there something you're not sharing? Why aren't you sharing it? Is it because you're afraid that I can't take it? Is it because you think I'm not a strong person? Do you secretly not like being around me? Am I stressful, you know? And then that's very stressful.
GROSS: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
SLATE: (Laughter) Yeah.
GROSS: Is that just all happening in your head or you're actually asking these questions to the other person?
SLATE: There's very little that happens in my head that's not going directly into my husband's face. And....
GROSS: (Laughter).
SLATE: But I also think that I've learned to be respectful about that. And, you know, there are some things that are harder for me to tolerate. Like, I see one flash of a thing and I'm like, what is that? You need to talk about it with me right now. But I will also say that I think that that's one of the things that my husband likes the best about me, because I really - I deeply respect him, but I also want to know him. And sometimes I don't feel that it benefits our relationship to let something pass for a certain amount of time without discussing it. But, you know, I bet sometimes he wishes that I could be a little more, quote-unquote, "chill," you know?
GROSS: Do we have to talk about it? Now?
SLATE: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
SLATE: Like, right when he's falling asleep, you know, does he need that? I actually know that that's, like, kind of a no - a don't-do-it zone, you know?
GROSS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So obviously there's a very kind of sensitive, reflective part of you. But when you're onstage, you turn that into a very - almost loud kind of comedy. You know, you're laughing, you're sometimes screaming.
SLATE: Yeah.
GROSS: So how do you turn these kind of vulnerable, sensitive things into the kind of comedy you do onstage?
SLATE: I think they're already that, the way that I would relay this experience. Like, if you asked me to tell you what it is right now, it would look the way it looks when I'm doing stand-up. There would be screaming. There would be a doorway into my imagination where I'm, like, imagining what would've even have to happen in the other person's head in order for them to interact with me in this way. And that is my experience. It is, like, kind of a - I feel like I'm having sort of, like, an emotional multimedia experience all the time.
I'm not one of these people that's, like, going through her life and being like, oh, that's material. Oh, you know, like, I'm going to do something interesting so maybe it will be material. I'm just going through and living my normal life. But I don't feel that I have to do anything to turn it into comedy. For example, the first clip that you played about, you know, whether or not I've done extreme things. It's like, usually it's, you know, behavioral, relational stuff that I've done.
GROSS: So is knocking on someone's door at 4 in the morning to say - after four dates to say I love you, that was the extreme thing that you improvised?
SLATE: (Laughter) Yeah.
GROSS: Yeah.
SLATE: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
GROSS: So when you first realized that you were sensitive and also sensitive in the kind of way where you're always, like, reading somebody else and trying to adjust for that, did you see that kind of sensitivity as a strength or a vulnerability, something you wanted to change?
SLATE: I think it was unconscious at first. It was just, like, something that I was doing, and I didn't notice it. And that's really hard because there were returns on my perceptions. And, you know, it was like they were never flattering, just like as a kid, it was like, you're doing something wrong. They don't like it. You know, it was just, like, a lot of criticism that I didn't understand was, like, starting from within in a way that I was approaching general relational dynamics. Like, a lot of people don't do that or - and I probably could have had a different experience. But then I think that when I started doing stand-up and realized - and that was like I started doing standup in my early, mid-20s, like, maybe 23, 24, and I realized, like, oh, a lot of what I want to talk about is how I feel. And I started to be more aware of it. And I also started going to therapy. And I think I felt ashamed of how much it was so self-focused, like, you know, what does this person think about me? I just felt like, why am I like this? Like, this is such a gross way to be.
GROSS: You know, I can see how that kind of constantly reading another person's expressions or reading between the lines of what they're saying could be a real asset as a comic because as a comic, or at least the kind of comic you are, you're reflecting out loud about your inner life. So what can be complicated in the moment can really pay off, I think, as a comic.
SLATE: Oh, I think so, too. I also think that, like, it helps me to separate my real self from what I'm seeing in someone else and then internalizing. One thing I've noticed about myself is that when I am upset with something that someone else is doing, I have often, until very recently, tried to look inside of myself to figure out where the source of their bad behavior comes from in me. Like, what did I do to make this, you know, person on the date or boss that I have, what did I do to make them be like this? And then in getting on stage and telling the story and needing it to be dynamic and that, like, other characters have to exist besides you, it allows you to be like, oh, I actually didn't do that. The other person, they're weird and they're weird. They did this weird thing. But then I'm also weird because my response was absolutely bizarre.
And then you have, like, comedy. It's like, look at these weirdos doing weird things. And, you know, with other people now, it's become more of, like, how do I turn this into empathy? Like, if I am interested in this person, if I see myself starting to focus on them, make it about them - ask questions, don't make weird assumptions and stow them inside of myself and suffer by that.
GROSS: That's a really interesting point to make it more about them. Like, are you OK? How are you feeling? As opposed to what's wrong with me? OK. Time for a break. So let me reintroduce you.
If you're just joining us, my guest is comic, writer and actor Jenny Slate. Her new comedy special, "Seasoned Professional," is streaming on Amazon. We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF JULIAN LAGE'S "SUPERA")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with comic and actor Jenny Slate. Her comedy special, "Seasoned Professional," is about getting pregnant, giving birth and becoming a mother and a lot of other subjects along the way. It's streaming on Amazon.
When you got into comedy, how old were you, and what was your very early material like?
SLATE: I was in the improv group at Columbia, and that, to me, actually feels like the start of it, even though it was, you know, like, a school activity. But that is really when I started to form as a comedian. Then I think when I was 23 was the first time that I started doing stand-up. And I believe the very first show that I did was about - like, I was talking about working in retail and how much I disliked it, but I can't really remember what it was. And I - but I do remember getting off stage and being like, but that was a weird fit. Like, why is it funny when I say things at dinner parties but it's not - but I'm not talking about that on stage? And very quickly, I was like, oh, it's - that's what I'm supposed to do. I'm just supposed to do, you know, what I would do on a date or hanging out with a fun friend - a new friend and I want them to know what my life has been. I already do this. I already try to make people laugh in order to, like, engender a bond or a fondness.
And so I just started going on stage and talking about my parents and my childhood. And I think one of the main stories that I told over and over again, because I am fascinated by it, was how they, like, got in a fight with a contractor who was working on our house, and there was, like, a hole in our roof because he was like, forget it, and he left. And how the bats - like, we had just so many bats in our house 'cause we had, like, an open roof for a while.
GROSS: Wow.
SLATE: And, like, it really - it still makes me laugh. I won't talk about anything on stage if it's, like, a dead subject for me. Like, I think of stand-up as - at least for me, you know, everybody does it differently, but it's like a nugget of a story that I have and the more I tell it, it starts to, like, get brighter and brighter, and then suddenly, it reaches a peak and you can tell - you can feel the light, like, starting to go out. And sometimes something will - I'll be like, this is just a rock now. It's nothing. I don't want to talk about it anymore. It's not funny to me. I'm done. But then, like, 12 years will go by and suddenly I'll be like, oh, yeah, remember that story about that girl that spit on my face at synagogue at Yom Kippur and I couldn't yell at her because it was the Day of Atonement?
GROSS: (Laughter).
SLATE: I'm like, that's ready to come back right now for me. I mean, like, I'm like, that's next, especially now that I have a daughter.
GROSS: I'm still thinking about all the bats and wondering...
SLATE: Yeah.
GROSS: Did you think a lot about, like, early vampire films? Because that's what I associate bats with. But also, bats are famous for all the dung in bat caves.
SLATE: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
GROSS: So did you end up with, like, dung on your bed or on the kitchen table?
SLATE: No, what happened was - so first of all, yes, vampires for sure. I was so afraid of vampires as a little girl and had a recurring dream of, like, that Dracula was, like, trying to fool me into allowing him into my room so that he could, like, kill me, you know? And I had this, like, recurring dream where I would see a frog at the end of the bed, and I'd be so pumped that there was a frog. Like, (laughter) this is my personality, but I was so excited about this, like, big green frog. And I was just like, yes, this is so cool. I'm going to catch that frog. And then I would go towards it, and he would be like, whoa. And it would be Dracula in, like, a tuxedo. And I'd be like, oh, no, I'm dead and then wake up in a sweat.
And so I got really, really frightened. And I slept with my head under the covers, which became this, like, huge thing for my parents that they were like, you're going to suffocate, you're going to suffocate. And I just didn't care. Like, I just - they told me this is, like, really unsafe but - and they had my grandfather, who was, like, you know, the guy. Like, I would listen to anything he said. And he was like, (imitating grandfather) you're going to suffocate. And I was like, yeah, got it. But I still did it.
And then my dad, he would, like, really, come out in the middle of the night in his nighttime apparel, which at the time was a very, very long nightshirt that - he worked at the time at the computer company called Wang, which was, like, before IBM. Like, it was, like, one of the first computer companies, and it was called Wang. And he had this, like, shirt that said Wang on it. And he would run down the hallway with an old tennis racket and swat the bats against the hallway. And we had, like, bat blood on our wallpaper. I remember just being like, he got one, you know? Like, just...
GROSS: Like, instead of a mosquito, it was a bat.
SLATE: Yeah, just such a bummer, like, just such an intense way to live and be. And I thought it was really funny. I talked about it onstage for so long because I was fascinated by it. Like, wow, I thought this was normal for so long that I didn't even think about it, and now I realize that this was actually very specific (laughter).
GROSS: Now I'm thinking also about growing up in a house that your family, I mean, including your parents, especially your father, believed was haunted.
SLATE: Yeah.
GROSS: So tell us about that. You talk about that in your first comedy special.
SLATE: Yeah, I believe it was haunted, too, you know, take it or leave it. Like, everyone has their own opinions about the spirit world and apparitions. But, yeah, my dad had - he had discovered a packet of love letters that were written to one of the previous owners of the house, but they weren't from her husband. They were from - some sort of a captain of a ship. And when my parents first moved in, my dad - my mom woke up smelling pipe smoke, and my dad smoked a pipe at the time. And she called out to him to come to bed and then rolled over and realized that he was asleep.
And so she woke him up and she was like, you left your pipe burning, you're going to burn down the house. And so he went out into the hallway and saw on the stairs - says he sort of saw it but didn't see it, but he saw it, but he didn't see it - a man in sort of, like, a heavy, like, mariner's, like, seaman's jacket walking up the stairs. And there was a bunch of other stuff that happened. And I'm the only one that never saw anything, actually, which in itself is scary to me because I feel like there's, like, a backlog, you know? It's all going to, like, come at once.
GROSS: So between the bats and your parents thinking you lived in a haunted house, that sounds like a horror film.
SLATE: Yeah, it does, doesn't it?
(LAUGHTER)
SLATE: And produced a comedian. Yeah, I was scared of our house growing up. Like, I was sad - certainly sad when my parents moved out. It was a very beautiful house.
GROSS: A lot of parents would say, you know, it was just coincidence or dad just woke up and he was still, like, half-dreaming. So don't worry, because there's no such thing as a haunted house.
SLATE: (Laughter) Yeah.
GROSS: But that's apparently not what your parents said.
SLATE: No, I know. They did not. I mean, I think we were all a bit proud of it, too. You know, it's mystical, and I think it was sort of a point of - it was kind of like a treasure, but, like, a terrible one to have. And, you know, I don't remember ever thinking that my parents would lie to me, you know, like, even if it might be frightening or hurtful. And I think they're very thoughtful people. But the other thing is, like, they might not have known how scared I was.
GROSS: OK, we need to take another break here, so let me reintroduce you. If you're just joining us, my guest is comic and actor Jenny Slate. Her new comedy special, "Seasoned Professional," is streaming on Amazon. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF JOSHUE REDMAN'S "MARCH")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with comic and actor Jenny Slate. Her comedy special, "Seasoned Professional," is about getting pregnant, giving birth and becoming a mother and a lot of other subjects along the way. It's streaming on Amazon. She co-created, co-wrote and starred in the Oscar-nominated animated film "Marcel The Shell With Shoes On." She's done a lot of voice work for animated TV shows and movies, including "Bob's Burgers," "Big Mouth," "The Batman Lego Movie" (ph), "The Secret Life Of Pets" and "Zootopia." She was in several episodes of "Parks And Recreation" as one of the Saperstein twins. She had a recurring role on the series "House Of Lies" and starred in the film "Obvious Child."
I want to ask you about "Marcel The Shell With Shoes On," which started as an animated web series that you created with your then - were you still married when you created it, or was he your boyfriend then? I'm trying to get the sequence right.
SLATE: Oh, yeah, we were just - yeah, we were boyfriend and girlfriend when we made the first Marcel the Shell short film.
GROSS: And remind me of his name.
SLATE: Dean Fleischer Camp.
GROSS: So you and Dean started the series as boyfriend and girlfriend. And then you were married, and then you divorced and continued the series together, which is another story. I should say that the film version - it started as a web series. And then the film adaptation, which you also did with Dean, was Oscar-nominated for best animated feature. How did you come up with the idea of having a shell as the leading character in a story?
SLATE: Well, it started with me doing the voice. I was, like, just as a goof, doing this voice. I was, like, doing a weird voice while we were...
GROSS: Can you do it for us?
SLATE: (Imitating Marcel the Shell) Oh, yeah. I can do it right now. This is what it sounds like. Yeah.
GROSS: OK.
SLATE: I was doing it while we were at a wedding, and Dean had - he said he would make a video for a friend's comedy show, but he hadn't done it. And he was like, can I interview that voice, basically? Like, we didn't have the character yet. And so we got home from the wedding. He interviewed me more. I said some more stuff. He had enough audio that it was like, oh, we're dealing with someone who's really small, it seems. And then he went to the local arts - like, the craft store and the toy store in Brooklyn, where we lived. And he bought, like, a kind of - like, a knockoff of a Polly Pocket. It wasn't a Polly Pocket. It was sort of, like, just a brand X one. And he did a bunch of different character designs. And finally, he took some, like, molding, you know, like - what would you call it? - like, plasticine or, like, molding clay and put it in the shell hole and stuck the eye in there and glued the shoes on. And I came back to our apartment, and he was like, I think this is the guy. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's the guy for sure. And so it was just kind of both of us feeling our way. But he is 100% responsible for the character design. And I just think it's so - I just think Marcel looks perfect. I think he's a perfect-looking creature.
GROSS: When you were creating Marcel's voice, I think you said it was a voice you'd used before.
SLATE: I think I had tried to use it one time when I was on "SNL," but I vocally could not figure out how to hold on to it. And I had lost it, and I couldn't find it. I couldn't do it literally. And it was like, oh, great - like, another failure here (laughter) And, I mean, looking back on it, I'm really glad that I didn't spend that in that context just because it led to so much more creative control for me to do it just outside of that community. But, yeah, suddenly it just came back. And I held on, and I was able to click into it. And the more I do it, the more I can find it right away.
GROSS: Can you do it a little bit more so we can hear it?
SLATE: (Imitating Marcel the Shell) Yeah. I mean, you could probably just - like, I can do it, like, whenever I want to. But probably at the end of a day of, like, recording it, I get, like, a little - I get tired. Like, my voice feels tired, but it doesn't, like, hurt to do it or anything. But even doing it - it's almost like if a person were to do, like, repeated movements with their body. They get into, like, a more, like, clarified mental state. That's, like, kind of how I feel about it as well.
GROSS: It's such an earnest voice. I've heard you say that you talk to your daughter, your 3-year-old daughter, sometimes in Marcel's voice. How did you start doing that?
SLATE: I talk in Marcel's voice, sometimes without realizing it. A lot of times, like, there's a running commentary. Like, especially, you know, if we're in traffic or we're in a line, it's really fun, you know, in a car with just my family to be like, (imitating Marcel the Shell) oh, this is taking forever.
You know, it's just, like, how to get into it. And she - the first time she heard it, like, her - you know, she was like, what is that? What is that? And she thinks he lives inside of me, but that's not disturbing to her. She also knows what he looks like, but she never asks to see him. She just wants to talk to him.
GROSS: What do you tell her in Marcel's voice that's different from what you tell her in your voice?
SLATE: Marcel gets more info from her. So actually, as Marcel, I just ask her questions, you know, like, why didn't you like that sandwich? What was wrong with it? What happened at school today? Like, she'll give Marcel a bigger answer, which is really nice. And then she likes singing with Marcel.
GROSS: Do you want to sing in Marcel's voice and tell us how you do that?
SLATE: Yeah. It's like - OK. This is one of the songs that Ida and I sing together. (Imitating Marcel the Shell, singing) There's a bright golden haze on the meadow. There's a bright golden haze on the meadow. The corn is as high as an elephant's eye, and it looks like it's climbing straight up to the sky.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: A song from "Oklahoma!"
SLATE: I love that song.
GROSS: "Oh, What A Beautiful Mornin'."
SLATE: It's the best.
GROSS: Yeah. OK. That's so great. Is it hard to maintain the voice while you're singing?
SLATE: I think it's easier to sing in Marcel's voice than it is to speak in Marcel's voice.
GROSS: Why is that?
SLATE: I'm not sure. I really actually don't know. I do a lot of voice work, but I'm not in any way a trained performer. I have not been to, like, an acting conservatory or singing classes or, you know, nothing. So I'm just kind of - I'm just working with whatever I have.
GROSS: Now, you do voices for other animated series. You've done voices - a voice for "Bob's Burgers" and "Big Mouth," "Zootopia," other animated films. So do you want to do you want to do the "Bob's Burgers" voice for us and tell us about creating it?
SLATE: Well, in "Bob's Burgers," (imitating Tammy Larsen) I kind of just talk like this. I play a character named Tammy. She's not nice. She's really selfish. She wants everyone to look at her right now.
It's just kind of, like, me doing a mean - my version of a mean girl voice. And they wrote that character and then asked me to play it, which I love. And then I'm also on another show on Fox called "The Great North," which is so funny. Written by the - and created by the Molyneaux sisters, who - they were - wrote on "Bob's Burgers," as well. And I play a teenager named Judy, and, like, it's always a version of my voice, but with Judy, it's like (As Judy Tobin) I just kind of, like, lighten it up a little bit, and I just sort of, like, just, like, don't enunciate it as much and, like, I'm just, like, kind of think about things and yeah, like, you know, I just, I kind of talk about this and it's sort of my voice, but I just, like, just a little bit, sort of more relaxed, pulled back.
GROSS: Well, we have to take another break here. So let me reintroduce you.
If you're just joining us, my guest is comic and actor Jenny Slate. Her new comedy special, "Seasoned Professional," is streaming on Amazon. We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF AMANDA GARDIER'S "FJORD")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with comic and actor Jenny Slate. Her new comedy special, "Seasoned Professional," is about getting pregnant, giving birth and becoming a mother, and it's about a lot of other subjects along the way.
How did you know that you could do voices?
SLATE: Oh man, I mean forever. It's been my delight to do voices, and I've just always thought that voices are the funniest thing. Like, as a kid, I thought Robin Williams as the Genie was just - it was like drugs for me. Like, I just thought, that's the best. I loved "Saturday Night Live." I loved when people spoke in voices that weren't theirs. I just thought that that was one of the funniest, most startling, eye-catching things that a performer could do. And I've just always loved it and always tried to do as many voices as I can. But I'm really bad at, like, accents from other countries. I can't do any, like, real accents. Like, I can't do any, I don't think, at all.
GROSS: Were there other animated characters whose voices you loved growing up?
SLATE: Oh, yeah. I mean, to the, like, you know, the treacly, just sickening, like the treacly, sweet voices of the Chipmunks where, you know, I just, like, loved how that sounded and would, like, use the record player to speed things up so that I could hear that tone. But I guess my favorite voice, actually, on TV was Pee-wee.
GROSS: Oh, Pee-wee was great.
SLATE: Yeah.
GROSS: Yeah. Yeah.
SLATE: He really screamed. He really yelled at people.
GROSS: Right.
SLATE: You know, which I love. And I always thought Pee-wee was - I mean, Pee-wee has some attitude as the character, but, I guess that got deep in me 'cause I love to scream on stage.
GROSS: You do. And I was going to bring that up. Like, you have so many different screams.
SLATE: Yeah.
GROSS: And sometimes you'll do several different screams consecutively.
SLATE: Yeah.
GROSS: So I'm going to ask you, if you don't mind, and if you don't think it'll blow out your voice, to back up from the mic and do some screams for us. How about before each scream, tell us what you're thinking of that this scream represents. Like, what context you'd use that scream in.
SLATE: Right. OK. So I think, like, if I'm, like, so startled by something that I realize is happening and I can't stop it, the scream would kind of be like (screaming). Like that. Like you're, like, you're going on, like, a big ride. But, like, you know, for example, I think I just did this on "Seth Meyers" and I don't think about it. I don't, like, preload my screams or even know that they're going to come. But I know when I'm performing, I'm allowed to do them. But, like, one time, like, a fortune teller gave me like a really scary fortune, and that reaction that I had was (screaming).
GROSS: (Laughter).
SLATE: And, you know, that's the truth. The screams are, like, the truth. They're, like, the level at which I'm feeling things.
GROSS: What did the fortuneteller tell you?
SLATE: At the bachelorette party that preceded my first wedding, she told me that I hadn't met the right man, but that I would know it when I met him.
(LAUGHTER)
SLATE: It turned out...
GROSS: Thanks for that.
SLATE: Yeah. Yeah, thanks.
GROSS: But she was right. Yeah.
SLATE: Yeah. Should have listened.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: Can you do one more?
SLATE: Sure. I wonder what - yeah. And then, like, OK. Then there's one that's, like, kind of, like, a variation that happens when there's, like, you're watching something and you don't know what's going on, which is like, (screaming). That's sort of more Tarzany (ph).
GROSS: Do you ever hurt your voice when you scream? Do you know how to scream without shredding your voice?
SLATE: I do know how to scream without shredding my voice. So I do that. Like, when I'm recording for "The Great North" - I feel like I scream a lot, actually, in "The Great North," just 'cause, like, they live in Alaska, and they're always, like, falling off a cliff or, you know, like, they're, like, on a sled or something like that. But I do know how to do it. I will say, on stage, I'm looking for catharsis. And there are things that I don't have a plan, but, like, I - somewhere deep inside knows that I want to do it and I need to do it, and I will fully scream. And it does, like, I'll end up hoarse, for sure, after that. But there's a difference between, you know, pretending to run really fast and running really fast.
GROSS: You've spoken on stage about how no one in your family was divorced and how awful you felt about being a divorced person, as if it was, like, a terrible stigma. Why did you feel so strongly about it in a larger culture where so many people get divorced?
SLATE: I think it's probably just very, very basic embarrassment of being like, got it, did it, this is the decision, never going back, absolutely sure, and then having it fall apart rather quickly. Like, we weren't married for very long, at all. And I think I didn't see myself in the context of the world. I just, like, saw myself in outer space just being like, this is a really Jenny thing to do. Like, you really messed it up again. You know, that's the cheapest way to put it and the most brutal way to put it towards oneself. But I guess I don't like to fail, you know, although I have failed many times. But, yeah, I think I just - I think it was hard to look at the things that were actually really sad and really scary, so it was just, like - I bundled it into a general mess of shame and embarrassment.
GROSS: One of the things you failed at was one of the most important turning points in your life. All your life you want to be on "Saturday Night Live," and then you got the job and you accidentally turned frick into the four-letter expletive. You were supposed to use the euphemism...
SLATE: Yeah.
GROSS: ...But the real word came out. So the frick turned into the four-letter expletive, and you were fired. I think that was the reason you were fired.
SLATE: No, I don't think so, actually.
GROSS: Oh, OK.
SLATE: Yeah. I think I generally just...
GROSS: Didn't fit in?
SLATE: ...Didn't fit in. I - socially, I felt like I fit in. Like, I'm still friends with most of, you know, the people, like, that I worked with. But I did not click in as a person who could work there for whatever reason. Like, yeah. I mean, it's - I just was not a good fit. Yeah. I would imagine that that's why.
GROSS: Did they explain why?
SLATE: No. They didn't. And I actually found out that I was fired, like, on the internet. So it just kind of was like...
GROSS: Was that through word of mouth that was on the internet or a press release?
SLATE: Yeah. I think it was on, like, Deadline Hollywood. And somebody that I knew was like, oh, no, I'm so sorry. I saw the article in the trades, basically. And I was just like, what? You know, like, I didn't see it. I hadn't seen it yet.
GROSS: Your first comedy special was called "Stage Fright," and you attribute your stage fright, in part, from getting fired at "Saturday Night Live." What's the connection?
SLATE: I don't think it's, like, the firing. I think it was, like, also Twitter was, like, relatively new then, and I had, like, no understanding of myself as a public person. You know, I just thought of myself the way people used to think about themselves as, like, just in their life. And maybe if someone had a picture of you, it was like, you know, in an album. Like, I just didn't understand that there would be an online forum commenting on me. And yeah, like, I, you know, I'm a normal person, in my way. It hurt my feelings and it made me anxious and less willing to show myself to people. But I also knew that that was not a good place to end, so I tried to work through it.
GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is Jenny Slate, and her new comedy special is called "Seasoned Professional." It's streaming on Amazon. We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.
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GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with comic and actor Jenny Slate. Her comedy special, "Seasoned Professional," is about getting pregnant, giving birth and becoming a mother, and it's streaming on Amazon.
When I interviewed you in 2014, as our time was about to run out, we had been talking about stage fright and how you went to a hypnotist who you kind of attribute to helping you overcome the stage fright and you think you were hypnotized. So you went back to the hypnotist to help you overcome your habit of sleep eating. And I had to cut off that part of the conversation 'cause we had to end the interview. Our time was running out. And so I'd like to pick up where we left off the last time. I'm not sure what sleep eating is.
SLATE: Well, it used to be - and also, like, I used to also just, like, smoke a lot more weed, you know? Now I don't anymore. It's been maybe six years since, like, there has been any marijuana in my life. Like, it makes me so paranoid. And it's just - it's - I'm never going back. But maybe it was a function of that, of just, like, being hungry from what they call the munchies. But for me, what it was, was, like, I would be almost fully asleep and go into the kitchen, and I would eat something and then usually not return it. So we would, like, wake up in the morning and go into the kitchen and there would be ice cream out, things like that, like, things that had been ruined. I think it's a major sign of anxiety. it's not something that - I don't sleep eat anymore, but I can tell when I am fretting and worrying because I usually wake up around 3 in the morning and have to go and have, like, a little snack. And then the second I have it, my mind goes blank and I'm able to rest. But it only happens when I'm anxious.
GROSS: Do you think this hypnosis helped with that?
SLATE: I don't think so. I don't think so. And I also think that I really pushed mostly through whatever he did to me to get rid of the stage fright. It was better for a while. And then it just came back so much around...
GROSS: Oh, really?
SLATE: ...The time - yeah, yeah, yeah. It just came - like, it's just - I really want to do a live, stage show, like, a more of kind of like a one-woman show. And the thing holding me back is, like, I am delighted when I think about the rehearsal process. I'm delighted when I think about things like set design, what the material is. And I am so terrified thinking of, like, grossed out, genuinely thinking of the time between, like, a matinee and an evening performance and, like, the time, like, when I play clubs, which is not that often, but I do, like, two shows a night. And after getting offstage after the first show, the feeling of, like, yeah, I did it and then the realization that, like, I have to go again, is - it's like, what is the - it's like a Sisyphean - it's just like, oh, my God. I cannot believe that I have to do this again. It is...
GROSS: It's like tension release - oops, tension (laughter).
SLATE: Totally. Yeah.
GROSS: Yeah.
SLATE: It's not a comfortable feeling. And it's not a, like, the lady doth protest.
GROSS: (Laughter).
SLATE: Like, you know, tell me I'm really good, and, like, I should be doing this. It's like, I don't like it. It's not a good fit for me. And I have to take whatever success I've earned to allow myself a schedule that is, like, doable for me in a - like, a neurological way. Like, it just - it really, really messes with me, the stage fright.
GROSS: You said something about paranoia and smoking weed. Did the weed make you paranoid?
SLATE: Yes, 100%, like...
GROSS: What were your paranoid thoughts when you were smoking?
SLATE: They were really - they weren't even, like, well-formed self-criticism. It was just, like - it was - they were embarrassing because they themselves seem sort of dumb. It was just like, you're bad. This is bad. You're (laughter) bad. But even though that sounds boring, it was deeply threatening. Like, have you ever had a really bad dream, but it's like you're just watching someone open an envelope or something, and - but, like, the dread is so crazy high? It was that. It almost felt - the sense of dread was very, very high. And then occasionally I would, like, recall a silly thing that I said or maybe a time that I was bragging or, like, why did I just randomly - you know, when that person asked me how I was doing, why did I tell them about my job? Why didn't I tell them about something in my life? You know, like, ugh, you're such a jerk. Like, it would be things like that.
GROSS: What kept you smoking weed if weed make you - made you paranoid?
SLATE: It used to be really fun. So I think I was waiting for the fun to return. And every time I would return to it - and this happened, like, over a summer - it was just like, this is bad. You aren't - you're not getting anything out of this, and it's making you more depressed and anxious. And the second I stopped smoking, I felt so much better. I really did.
GROSS: Did you ever have this fear that, like, your real self was the self that came out on weed and that you really were that paranoid?
SLATE: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, I had this weird sense of being in big trouble. Like, what you're seeing now, Jenny, that's how much trouble you're in - that's how much you've asked of your parents, you know, that they would support you, that you haven't been a good listener. Like, you tell yourself you're good, but you're bad. It was, like, these sort of moral judgments and this feeling that maybe I don't know myself.
GROSS: So our time is about up, but I want to ask you - I know you're preparing for a new series with Michelle Williams.
SLATE: Yeah.
GROSS: Tell us something about that.
SLATE: For me, I feel that I've been waiting for a really long time for somebody to let me be the actor that I know I can be. And so this material offers that to me and I'm really excited, but also Michelle Williams is one of my favorite actors. And so to be in a scene with her is an honor, and it allows me to take myself seriously, while also making sure that my work ethic is, like, the best it could have been. And the story is about two best friends, one of whom has a terminal cancer diagnosis and has left her marriage and is asking her best friend to go through the dying process with her. But one thing she wants to do, while she is at the end of her life, is to finally sort of, like, actualize herself as a sexual person and to find out what that means for her. And so it's really - it's just, like, a very, very juicy, juicy series. It's a limited series, and I am ready to go.
GROSS: And the series is called "Dying For Sex."
SLATE: It's called "Dying For Sex." Yes. And it's based off of a podcast that was done by the two friends as they were really going through this experience.
GROSS: Jenny Slate, it's been great to talk with you again. Thank you so much for coming back on the show.
SLATE: Thank you for having me back. It's really nice to - (laughter) it's always nice to be invited in once, but I always say it's the return, you know, that means that you're OK.
GROSS: (Laughter) You're more than OK.
SLATE: (Laughter) Thank you so much...
GROSS: You were great.
SLATE: ...For having me.
GROSS: This was a real pleasure.
SLATE: Thank you.
GROSS: Jenny Slate's new comedy special "Seasoned Professional" is streaming on Amazon Prime Video. Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, our guest will be Eugene Levy. He gets out of his comfort zone for his series "The Reluctant Traveler." Levy starred in the hit comedy series "Schitt's Creek." That's "Schitt's Creek," the fictional town the series is set in. He co-starred in the sketch comedy series "SCTV" and co-wrote and co-starred in several mockumentaries, including "Best In Show." I hope you'll join us.
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GROSS: To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram @nprfreshair. FRESH AIR's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Amy Salit, Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Sam Briger, Lauren Krenzel, Heidi Saman, Therese Madden, Thea Chaloner, Seth Kelley and Susan Nyakundi. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co-host is Tonya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.
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