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Pioneer Billie Jean King Moved The Baseline For Women's Tennis.

A PBS documentary looks at King's legacy as both a tennis champion — she has a record 20 Wimbledon titles — and the leader of a female player uprising that demanded fairer treatment and pay. She tells Fresh Air about the challenges of being a female player before there was a women's league.

This interview was originally broadcast on Sept. 12, 2013.


Other segments from the episode on January 31, 2014

Fresh Air with Terry Gross, January 31, 2014: Interview with Billie Jean King; Review of Jane Ira Bloom's album "Sixteen Sunsets"; Review of Diane Johnson's memoir "Flyover Lives."


January 31, 2014

Guest: Billie Jean King

DAVE DAVIES, HOST: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Dave Davies, in for Terry Gross, who's off this week. Billie Jean King is a tennis legend who won 39 Grand Slam titles, 20 at Wimbledon. She's also made a career of fighting for equality and fairness, and both callings have earned her a place in the drama around the Winter Olympics beginning next month.

In what's clearly a message to Russian President Vladimir Putin about his country's anti-gay legislation, President Obama named King to the United States' official delegation to Sochi, along with two other gay athletes: hockey medalist Caitlin Cahow, and figure skater Brian Boitano. King was one of the first prominent athletes to come out as gay, in 1981, though as you'll hear, not under circumstances of her choosing.

I spoke to Billie Jean King last year, when an American Masters documentary marked the 40th anniversary of her epic match with self-proclaimed male chauvinist Bobby Riggs, dubbed the Battle of the Sexes. The documentary is still available on the American Masters website.

BILLIE JEAN KING: Well, Billie Jean King, welcome to FRESH AIR. It's great to have you.

Thanks, Dave.

DAVIES: You know, I remember when I was a kid, the girls on the block played baseball with us when we were in grade school and then, like, when they hit junior high school, then they didn't anymore, and they went on to other things.

And you know, I think you grew up at a time, obviously, when women and girls weren't exactly encouraged to compete in athletics. Talk a little bit about your interest in sports and what kind of encouragement you got from your family.

KING: Well, I got very, very lucky in the family I was born into because my dad was a total jock. He loved basketball. He was in track and field as a younger man. And my dad being a firefighter could play with my brother or me for hours. And I drove my poor dad crazy and wanted to play catch. Probably the third word we ever learned was ball, and we'd always say daddy, ball, mommy, ball. We always wanted to play catch.

So it makes sense, if you hear my mom's stories about us children, very young children, why we ended up one being a Major League Baseball player and of course one playing tennis, and both sports have a ball.

DAVIES: Describe the state of tennis when you became a top competitive player in the '60s and what opportunities were open to women then.

KING: Well, there weren't very many opportunities for men or women. We basically were amateurs making about $14 a day. If we stayed in a hotel, they might give us $28.


KING: And we had a good life because we played at clubs like the Marion Cricket Club, Philadelphia Germantown, and if you're in Philadelphia, people that live there, or South Orange, if you live in Northern New Jersey, this was kind of our circuit during the summer. But we weren't making much money, and so I started to complain.

And you know, I grew up around the big sports: basketball, football, baseball. And I'm thinking we should have a professional situation, and we didn't, and I thought how ridiculous is that.

DAVIES: So in 1968 I guess it was, is when they finally let professionals play in Wimbledon, and the prize money between men and women was massively disparate, right?

Yes, when professional tennis came in, actually before, when we were amateurs, the top women and top men were getting very similar payments to go play. So when the prize money started, they gave us much less, as I mentioned with the Wimbledon example. And there was another challenge.

KING: First we had the challenge of professional tennis, and the next challenge is this disparity, but more importantly the men who owned the tournaments or ran the tournaments started to drop the women's events entirely, most of the places.

When they had us, then - when they did have us play and included us, they gave us about a 12- or 11-to-one ratio of prize money. So this was not fun, you know, fighting for professional tennis, and then the guys decided - but my former husband, Larry King - no, not that Larry King - he...


KING: I always say that and people always laugh. Larry said when we go professional, the men will squeeze you out. And these guys were my friends, and so I said, oh no, they're my friends, they won't do that. He says oh yes they will. And Larry was right. That old-boy network became very, very strong and very, very closed.

DAVIES: So you in effect led a revolt. I mean you and a few other top women...

KING: We had to.

DAVIES: Yeah, explain what you did.

KING: We were getting desperate. Actually, Larry said to me, he said why don't you and Rosie Casals go and talk with Gladys Allman(ph). She's the one person who owned a magazine and published World Tennis magazine, and she knew all - he said she'll know all the advertisers, and she'll know probably a lot of CEOs, which we didn't know, and she's the kind of person that could get you a sponsorship because she'll have the right contacts.

And he was correct. And Gladys ended up saying let's - you know, I'm interested. So basically we decided we would join together, the nine of us were called the Original Nine, and that is the birth of women's professional tennis the way you know it today. We signed a $1 contract with Gladys, and she started to try to get us tournaments.

DAVIES: So you and your fellow players formed the Virginia Slims Tour...

KING: Right.

DAVIES: Women's tennis tournaments, and you advertised. You built it up from the bottom. And how did the tennis establishment react to this upstart venture?

KING: Not happily, and ironically what happened, a year later the USTA started a rival tour against us. So we had two tours going at once. And so all the top talent was divided. The other tour had Chris Evert, Margaret Court, Virginia Wade, Evan Goolagong, all these names that I hoped would had gone with us.

You know, you're of course organizing this little revolution at the ripe age of, what, probably 27, 28. I mean, this is kind of a remarkable story.

In my - yeah, my mid-20s.

DAVIES: Right. There's a turning point here, an amazing meeting that occurred in - right before the 1973 Wimbledon tournament at the Gloucester Hotel in London. Do you want to describe what happened there?

KING: Well, we called a meeting. It was June 20th. It was four days before Wimbledon, just like you said. It was right before. And we somehow were able to get the top players in the same room on June 20th. I had Betty Stove(ph), who is a wonderful Dutch player, who came along with us on the Virginia Slims Tour.

I said Betty - she's big and strong and intimidating. So I said Betty, lock the doors. Don't let anybody out. We have to have this - we're either going to have an association by the time this is over, or we're not. And we kind of started laughing, and she looked at me and said don't worry, I'll lock the doors.

So she stood at the back, literally stood there like a security guard, and some of the women did want to leave, and she said no, you can't leave. And so we had our vote, and lo and behold everyone actually heard either because I got up there to speak as the leader and said we have to do this, we've got to be, you know, one voice. And we let them ask questions and just tried to answer and persuade them. So all those things got going right off the bat.

DAVIES: Well, this is the 40th anniversary of your match, the Battle of the Sexes, your match with Bobby Riggs. I can't imagine that you're not tired of talking about this, but let's talk about it. When Bobby Riggs initially asked you to play him, you declined.

KING: Yes.


KING: I declined for a couple years because we'd just started our professional tournaments, women's professional tennis, and I was getting no sleep. I was working so hard. Remember, you just have to visualize. You're going to start a tour. There's no infrastructure. Who's going to own tournaments? Who are we going to get to take the risk, the financial risk of owning a tournament?

So all my time was spent trying to get people to do a tournament in different cities with Gladys. Larry and I were very instrumental in helping. And...

DAVIES: So you had more than a full plate.

KING: I was learning marketing, entrepreneurship 101A, by the seat of the pants basically, and we're off and running. It was really hard. And also you have to remember the media that all of us were doing. It was nonstop, morning, noon and night because Virginia Slims had very - had a very good PR aspect and marketing aspect to get the word out.

So we were just hustling and just working very, very hard at the media aspect, as well.

DAVIES: Sure. So Bobby Riggs convinces Margaret Court to take him on, top-ranked player of the day.

KING: Yes, he did.

DAVIES: He beats her in straight sets. And then you had a - then you decided you had to do it?

KING: Oh, as soon as Margaret lost I said I knew I had to do it. I mean, it was a no-brainer. I mean, OK, remember Title IX had just been passed the year before, June 23rd, 1972, which was very important to me and many of us that that passed. And it ended up being one of the most important pieces of legislation of the 20th century, particularly for woman at the time.

Even though it talks about no sex discrimination, but we'd been discriminated against. So I had - I really didn't want that to be weakened. I thought with Margaret losing it would be a good chance for some of the people to start, you know, jumping on the bandwagon to weaken Title IX, to hurt our tour, to hurt women's sports, all the things that I wanted to - the women's movement. All these things were a part of it.

So it was very, very important that Margaret win, and when Margaret didn't win in May of 1973, on Mother's Day, it was called the Mother's Day Massacre, she lost six-two, six-one, as soon as I found out - we were on our way back from Japan. As soon as I found out in the Hawaii airport, I knew I was definitely going to play Bobby Riggs. I did not have a choice.

DAVIES: All right, so I want to listen to some of the pre-match buildup here. And what we're going to hear here is a slightly edited montage from the "American Masters" documentary, and we're going to hear you and Bobby Riggs talking to some reporters, and then at the end of it we'll hear Bobby Riggs with Johnny Carson on "The Tonight Show." Let's listen.


KING: You know, I think that I can beat Bobby. I think I'm better.

BOBBY RIGGS: Well, what makes you think that I won't be able to psych you out...

I'm not Margaret Court. I love pressure. You can try to psych me all you want.

KING: I think a lot's at stake for women's lib. I like the idea that I'm playing for someone else besides myself.

RIGGS: I've got 120,000 letters from Bobby's mob. This is the mob of guys all over the world who wrote and told me they were rooting for me. I wouldn't let these guys down for the world.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: This has the atmosphere of a prize fight.

KING: It is. That's exactly what it is.

RIGGS: Never bet against Bobby Riggs, especially when there's big money involved.

KING: He hustles off the court, and I hustle on the court, and that's where it matters.

RIGGS: She's carrying a banner for the women's lib. I'm carrying male is supreme, the male is king, no matter what the difference in age.

KING: It's just a bunch of bologna. First of all, people are people, and some are more supreme than others in a different thing.

UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Bobby Riggs, rah, rah, rah.

JOHNNY CARSON: Do you like women?

RIGGS: I like 'em real good in the bedroom, the kitchen, and I really...

CARSON: You're a male chauvinist pig.

DAVIES: And that is our guest Billie Jean King 40 years ago with Bobby Riggs before the famed tennis Battle of the Sexes in 1973. You - that was from the American Masters documentary, by the way, which aired Tuesday. You can still get it online at the American Masters website.

You obviously had a lot of joint appearances together with Bobby Riggs, building up the attention for the - did you feel like you got to know him at all?

KING: Well actually, Bobby was one of my heroes. I love history. I knew all the champions in our sport preceding me, and I appreciated him. He had won the Triple Crown at Wimbledon. I knew that the Second World War had actually hurt his career, which I felt bad for him because it didn't allow him to get the recognition he deserved.

He was finally at least getting recognition. I don't know - everybody - I don't think most people realized what a great champion he had been, even though I would tell them. I don't think they were really tuned into that at the time because...

DAVIES: Well yeah, he was 55 when he was doing this thing.

KING: He was - he was as old as my father, and I told him - I mean for me to beat him meant absolutely nothing athletically, OK, nothing. But it's what it represented. And when Margaret lost, you know, I didn't know if I was going to beat him. I thought she would kill him, as far as winning, and she didn't. So I'm like oh boy.

And I - you never underestimate your opponent anyway. I mean, my parents, my dad, oh God that was like - he had two words: always respect your opponent, always, always, always respect them no matter what; and secondly never, ever underestimate them ever. So these things were just printed in my DNA almost.

So here's a hero of mine. He's going on and on about women in the bedroom, and keep them pregnant and barefooted and all these things, and I'm like oh my God. He was funny, but - you know, I like show time. I love entertainment. And I think being a tennis player you're a performer. So I got that part.

And I thought you know what, Bobby, just go for it. But I'm going to tell you, I'm not letting you get under my skin because I didn't want him to think he could like he did Margaret because from what - I didn't get to see the match against Margaret. I must tell you through this American Masters series I got to see it once, and I didn't realize how badly Margaret played.

And I felt so sorry for her because we've all been there, every human being's been in these situations where you're not happy, and you don't do well, and you choke. I mean, athletes, we choke. I mean champions just choke less. She had a horrible day at the office. So I felt so bad.

But so it did tee us up, though. I must say it teed us up, the women's movement, Title IX the year before, all the things that I've been fighting for forever, equal opportunities for boys and girls.

You know, it's funny because everybody talks about how this divided us. Actually it brought everybody together. It did exactly what I wanted. It had all these parties, all these bets from people. Everybody was crazy at this time about this match.

DAVIES: Well, what I wanted to ask you was do you think Bobby Riggs really held these strong beliefs about the role of women, or was this just basically shtick that he developed to get attention and money?

KING: Oh, I think he - no, I think he was chauvinistic. I think he probably went over the top for the match. But - he was a very kind person, but I think he's very - I think he was chauvinistic, but a great - but a really nice chauvinist. And he and I remained friends up until the day he died from prostate cancer.

DAVIES: Billie Jean King, recorded last September. We'll hear more after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.


KING: This is FRESH AIR, and we're listening to my interview recorded last year with Billie Jean King, when an American Masters documentary marked the 40th anniversary of her match with Bobby Riggs. King's been named to the U.S. official delegation to the Winter Olympics in Sochi.

So the day the match arrives, and Riggs enters accompanied by a bunch of young women. You enter like Cleopatra carried on a train of muscular guys. This is obviously part of the show.


KING: Loved it.

DAVIES: Yeah, you felt OK about that?

KING: Well, oh yeah, I felt great because it's show time. And Jerry Perenchio was quite sweet behind - you know, before I came out he said, I have this Egyptian litter, would, do you think you'd get in? I know you're a feminist, you probably won't. I said are you kidding? It's show time. This is perfect. Absolutely, I'll get up here. Let's have some fun. You know, the crowd deserves a good show.

Obviously, I was about ready to die because I've got to win this match - I mean, you know, the reality of it. But I also, you know, your fans always come first. So I said no, I'll get on there. And he about fainted. He said you will? I said yes, of course, I will. It's show time.

DAVIES: Let's hear little show time here. I want to listen to a little bit of Howard Cosell...

KING: Oh, it's pathetic.

DAVIES: ...describing your entrance. Let's listen to this.


HOWARD COSELL: It's like Monday night football. It's not the usual tennis atmosphere; it's a happening. And here comes Billie Jean King a very attractive young lady, and should she ever let your hair grow down to her shoulders, took her glasses off, you'd have somebody vying for a Hollywood screen test. There she is.

DAVIES: And that's Howard Cosell, reminding us it was 1973 when Billie Jean King played Bobby Riggs in The Battle of the Sexes. This whole thing, if you took your glasses off, you know, it's just sort of remarkable to hear that 40 years later.

KING: It still prevails out there. Not...

DAVIES: Still out there, huh?

KING: Not to the extent, but it does.

DAVIES: Well, I wanted to ask you this because, you know, as a professional and, you know, there's a business side of it, did you get people advising you to - I don't know - where your hair in a Farrah Fawcett do and all that stuff?



KING: No. I did not get any advice. I think they know better with me. I'm very practical. I actually cut my hair shorter for that match because I didn't want any perspiration around my face. I was playing three out of five sets, I'd never done that. I didn't know what to expect, so I tried to actually have a little slightly shorter haircut for that and get it shaped the way I wanted. It was shaped the way I wanted.

But I basically love my shag the most. But I felt I had to prepare for this match in a way that I had never prepared before. I never played three out five, and this was one-time only, you don't get another year, next year to come back if it's a Wimbledon and try to win again. This is a one-shot deal, heavyweight championship...

DAVIES: Right.

KING: ...match and this is it. And I told Bobby, I will never play you again. This is it for me - I could never go through this again. And this means so much to me historically. It represents social justice to me, Bobby. And I told him this before the match, and I will never play you again, this is it.

DAVIES: This is your shot. Well, were you...

KING: This is it.

DAVIES: Were you nervous when it was time to start?

KING: Actually, what happens to me is I get really nervous the farther out I am, I'm really nervous. And then I start getting into this place in my head which I do not know how I get there. You know, people say well, how do you get there? I start just trying to feel and visualize the moment, how it's going to be and how am I going to respond.

But you don't really know how it's going to be, especially this one-shot deal. The one thing I did do to prepare is I went to the Astrodome, and I looked at the top of the building. It's huge. I mean I don't know how many hundreds of feet up it is. I also wanted to make sure I knew the lay of the land, understand how to get around the arena because nothing is worse than going to a new place and not finding your way and you have to keep trying to talk to the guards.

I met all the guards. I knew where all the elevators were. I knew where my locker room was. I knew where the car would come and let us off and where it would pick us up at the end. I mean I go through all these logistics because they're just as important if you're not used to an arena, so you don't get lost or get out of sorts. You don't want to get out of sorts for those kinds of reasons. That's the last thing you want on your head. So I did spend a lot of time at the Astrodome the day before though, just to feel it.

DAVIES: Right.

KING: Because you have to remember the depth perception was going to be totally different than any tennis court I had played on. If you look at the backgrounds where people are sitting and then watch what a real tournament looks like, where they have this blue tarp up, where it's beautiful, you can see the ball and all that. We had none of that. Look how the lines people are dressed. They're just people that used to play, you know, they played at clubs and just asked them to be a lines person.

DAVIES: Billie Jean King, recorded in September. King's been named to the official U.S. delegation to the Winter Olympics in Sochi. She'll be back in the second half of the show. I'm Dave Davies, and this is FRESH AIR.


DAVIES: We're listening to my interview recorded last year with tennis champion Billie Jean King, who has been named to the official U.S. delegation to the Winter Olympics in Sochi. Her selection, along with two other gay athletes is clearly a message to Russian President Vladimir Putin about his country's anti-gay legislation. I spoke to King in September, when an "American Masters" documentary commemorated the 40th anniversary of his famous exhibition match with Bobby Riggs, dubbed The Battle of the Sexes.

As you know, there's been an, there was an ESPN story recently suggesting that based on the recollections of somebody who says he saw some - overheard some mob guys saying that Bobby Riggs may have thrown the match to retire gambling debts he had with the mob. Now there's been a lot written disputing that. People can read that...

KING: That's a joke.

DAVIES: People can read all that stuff. Yeah. Give me your reaction to that notion.

KING: Bobby just, he, first of all, he would never get involved with the mafia because I know Lorne Kuhl, who was his coach during the match, he was like his surrogate son, he was his sidekick. He knew Bobby as well as anybody ever in the history. He's got Bobby's museum. He is so upset. And I said - and I'm not upset. I said don't worry, you know, people always do things like this. It's just this, you know, 40 years later, whoopee, why didn't you do it, you know, a week later or why didn't you do it when it was happening? You know, and secondly, Jerry Perenchio is just - who promoted the match - is furious because he goes, it's ridiculous, you know, they're just trying to take something away from you because you beat this - beat him. And I know when someone's tanking, believe me. As an athlete, you know when someone's not...

DAVIES: How do you know? How do you know?

KING: You just know. You can tell when they miss on purpose, you can tell, you just know. I mean I've seen it happen, I know it, OK? You know it when you see it as an athlete. And the one thing that everyone should know is that Perenchio had told Bobby you have to win this match because here's what we're going to do for your career because Perenchio was his agent as well. He said if you win this one - when you win it, he said to Bobby - we're going to do $1 million, winner take all. We just did - that's 100,000, the one that Bobby and I played. But what we're going to do next is $1 million, winner take all, and let's go after Chris Evert or somebody else like Chris. We can go after Evonne Goolagong or somebody else. So they had this all mapped out for Bobby. Bobby is going to beat Billie and then we're going to go to the next one and the next one and we're going to keep raising the ante. So they had this all planned, believe me. So there's no way that he would've ever tried to lose that match.

DAVIES: Does it bother you that 40 years later when people hear Billie Jean King's name, they may not remember that you won 20 Wimbledon titles, but they remember the Bobby Riggs match?

KING: I knew that was going to happen actually at the time, because you could tell that I was going to get the most exposure I was ever going to get in my life. Every day I leave the apartment in New York City, where I live; I know someone's probably going to bring up that match. And every day, if I'm out in public since that match in 1970, I at least get one or more people coming up to me talking to me about it. Most people, if they're old enough to have seen it, remember exactly where they were that day. And they tell me their story and it's very fascinating all the different stories.

DAVIES: I confess I did, I remember where I was.

KING: See. Where were you? Were you...

DAVIES: I was actually, I was in college and I missed the match because I was at a political meeting that night, believe it or not.

KING: Well, that's good; at least you're an activist.


KING: Well, what school were you at?

DAVIES: The University of Texas.


DAVIES: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

KING: You know, the other thing that happens in this period is, you know, your discovery of - well, you're dealing with your sexual orientation. You were married to Larry King very young - your then-husband. When did you realize you were gay?

I was trying to figure out what I was. I didn't know if I was bisexual, gay, whatever, when I was going through this period. I had asked Larry for a divorce and he wouldn't give me a divorce. And we didn't talk - I didn't talk to him about my feelings, though. And I really - that's how fearful and homophobic I was. So it was just - I was paralyzed and I was just trying to figure things out. And I was starting to get worried about - I'd had this affair with Marilyn Barnett and I was starting to worry about it. She had been my assistant. So it was a difficult time for me and I didn't know what to do, really. I was lost. It was very different back in the '70s than it is now. It was different when I was outed in '81. It just wasn't the same as it is now.

DAVIES: You mentioned that you were outed in 1981, when the woman that you had had this relationship with, Marilyn Barnett, I guess...

KING: Mm-hmm.

DAVIES: ...sought.

KING: Money, honey.

DAVIES: Yeah. Right.

KING: It's about money.


KING: What else is new?

DAVIES: There was a dispute over property and money and...

KING: Oh, I mean it was just ridiculous.

DAVIES: Right. And this came out in a way that was not of your choosing. And you ended up holding a news conference to kind of air it out and answer questions. And I'm wondering what kind of advice you got and why you decided to do what you did.

KING: I got the opposite advice. My lawyer, Dennis Wasser and my publicist, Pat Kingsley, absolutely did not want me to do this. And I said I have to do it. And they said you can't do it, it's never been done. Dennis Wasser, my lawyer, just said no, no. We, just you don't do these - you just don't do this. You give them reasons to hurt you and it goes to, you know, it goes to court. And I said well, I don't really care. You know, I think the media is important to me, they've been good to me through the years and I am definitely going to tell the truth, so please, would you do this? And they said no. So we're up about 48 hours off and on arguing and discussing and finally, I got them to understand that I had to do this no matter what the consequence , that I had to tell the truth. And therefore, they said OK, and we suffered through this. It was very difficult. Larry was there and then Larry and I started discussing life and Larry still didn't want to get a divorce. I had all these different things going on. Of course, my poor mom and dad didn't know what hit them. Pat Kingsley had to call them to get them there quickly.

DAVIES: Yeah. How did they react to the idea of appearing in public with you then? I mean they were at the news conference.

KING: Well, you know what? My parents, I, they showed up and I'll always appreciate the fact they showed up. They didn't - they were not happy. My mother was crying. My dad, we were all suffering. But my parents showed up. They didn't stay home and I'll always appreciate the fact they stood, they got there. And I knew how hard it was for them, being so homophobic. I knew that that was the worst thing - you know, my parents never would watch my brother and me play that much in sports, they never were in the limelight, they didn't live through us, they had their own lives, very much in love, and that was, I just remember looking at them and feeling so bad for them. I felt so bad for Larry and just everybody in my life at the time. It was just a horrible, horrible feeling.

DAVIES: And you said, you know, you felt like you needed to do this for yourself - to kind of I guess, publicly...

KING: I needed to do - you know...

DAVIES: And were you right in the end when it happened?

KING: It really got down to what my parents had actually taught Randy and me about our values. You know, thinking back and saying, why did I do - I had to do it, why? You know, why? And it's very simple, actually. My mom and dad always taught us: to thine own self be true, have peace of mind, you know, tell the, you know, just do the right thing even if it's not popular. And this is one of these times. This is not going to help me be popular. If anything, it could ruin my whole career in life because I was just getting ready to retire and I started to have long-term sponsorship deals for the first time, like lifetime deals. You know, in sports that's huge when you get older. And we didn't make the big bucks. So I finally - I was going to be able to cash in in a way for me, just for me to get - to finally make some really good money over the long-term.

DAVIES: Sports apparel, that kind of thing? Companies - Mm-hmm.

KING: Apparels, you know, the racket deal. I had some other things pending. I had socks. I had - what was some other things? I had some other things. I can't remember right now.

DAVIES: And then...

KING: And they, I lost them all overnight and I had to start over, basically. And...

DAVIES: It hurt you financially.

Oh, yeah. I mean just basically start over. And then Larry and I finally got divorced so that's another, you know, 50 percent of your net worth goes bye-bye. But that's fine. You know, I just - you just have to keep, you have to keep going. It wasn't fine at the time but...


KING: You know, and my partner, Ilana Kloss, you know, she's been, we've been together for years and years. So it was hard, it was terrible for her. You know, I really felt the most sorry as time went on for Ilana because of what she had to deal with. And we've been together what, 34 years. So we've been together a long time. And Ilana has been through hell with all this.

DAVIES: Billie Jean King recorded last September. We'll hear more after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.


DAVIES: This is FRESH AIR. And we're listening to my interview recorded last year with Billie Jean King, recorded last September when an "American Masters" documentary marked the 40th anniversary of her match with Bobby Riggs. King's been named to the official delegation to the Winter Olympics in Sochi.

Our time is short here. I wanted to talk a little bit more about tennis. I mean, you know, when you look at your record in close matches, in deuce, you know, matches in Grand Slam events, it's remarkable how often you prevailed, you know, which I think speaks to your mental toughness. How did you prepare mentally for a match when you were moving up, playing competitively??

KING: Visualization we really used a lot. I used - I used to think about everything that could go wrong and then try to picture myself how I would react to it or how I'd respond to it. For instance, with the wind blowing, like last week at the U.S. Open it was really windy, and it was so hard on the players. So I always thought about the wind. I thought about the sun. I thought about bad line calls. I thought about rain if we had to wait, things that were probably out of my control, and how would I respond to them.

And I would think about how I wanted to act. Like they teach in acting, act as if, it's the same thing in sports. Do you stand up straight? Do you have your body language speaking in a confident way? Physically do you - how do you think - because 75 percent of the time when you're on the court, you're actually not hitting a ball, and I think that's where the champions come through. So I would visualize all these different possibilities.

DAVIES: And that time that you're not hitting the ball, is it a matter of preparing yourself to hit it? Is it a matter of...

KING: Yes.

DAVIES: ...carrying yourself in a way that intimidates an opponent?

KING: It's not about - see, for me, I never thought about the other - I always thought about staying on my side of the net. If you start getting on the other side of the net and trying to get into the other guy's mind, I thought - I mean, if they wanted to perceive something on my side of the net a certain way, there was nothing I could do about it. But I really did never - I didn't think about intimidating the other player.

Everything was getting my own act together, taking - accepting the responsibility for it. And once I started to toss the ball up to, say, serve, then I had to be in the now. I had to be - I was totally present and just doing, not thinking ahead or behind. And that's really important. Also if you've played a bad point, it's important to shake it off, regroup, think about what you want to do and then go for it.

If you're returning the serve, you want to think about where you'd like the ball to go on the other side as well. And of course I have two sayings when I teach tennis and that is pressure is a privilege, and champions adapt or adjust. And I try to tell people, particularly young people, that champions in life, all we're doing is adapting. We adapt as we go through each day.

DAVIES: You know, some ballplayers when they retire find it painful to go to the ballpark and not be down there and in uniform. Did you find it hard to give up competing?

KING: I'm just the opposite.

DAVIES: Or you never did - no?

KING: I was just the opposite. I retired at 40 from tennis and went to the World Team Tennis office the very next day. I had already planned what I was going to do in transition. I call it transition, not retiring. Tennis was not my primary. It was my secondary. It was my platform to try to help equality. So I just moved into World Team Tennis and if you watch a World Team Tennis match, you see my philosophy on life.

It's men and women on the same team, equal contributions by both gender. And when the children come out to watch, he or she sees the socialization among us. They see us working together and we're in this world together, men and women, and we need to champion each other as humans. And it's very, very important to do this.

DAVIES: Billie Jean Thanks so much for speaking with us.

KING: Thank you so much. And I love NPR. I love FRESH AIR. Thank you for all you do to inform us and teach us so we can learn. Thanks so much.

DAVIES: Billie Jean King recorded in September. King's been named to the official U.S. delegation to the Winter Olympics in Sochi. You can still watch the "American Masters" documentary about her career and the 1973 The Battle of the Sexes on the "American Masters" website.

DAVE DAVIES, HOST: Jazz critic Ken Whitehead has long admired the sound Jane Ira Bloom gets on the problematic soprano saxophone, which can be hard to play in tune. Kevin says Bloom's new album "Sixteen Sunsets" really plays to her strengths.


KEVIN WHITEHEAD, BYLINE: Kurt Weill's "My Ship" played by Jane Ira Bloom. That glow around her notes comes from a very simple special effect - pointing her horn under the hood of a piano. The strings are free to resonate. Bloom has always been preoccupied with sound, and has one of the prettiest, clearest tones around on soprano saxophone.

She never sounds better than on ballads, and on her new ablum "Sixteen Sunsets" she plays more than a dozen, including a few associated with Billie Holiday. You can tell Bloom knows the lyrics to "Good Morning Heartache," even when her phrases depart from the words.


WHITEHEAD: Billie Holiday is a good role model for how to vary and honor a melody at once, how to put in some heart and bring out the blues in it. Jane Ira Bloom can tap into the soprano's piercing quality, but her default tone is round and overtone-rich. It's almost as pure as a classical saxophonist, but Bloom the jazz musician may custom-tailor each note, inflecting it with a distinct vibrato or shading the pitch. She may let a note linger or clip it short, play it clean or coarse, or ascend to a steely high register.


WHITEHEAD: Jane Ira Bloom on "Darn That Dream." Bassist Cameron Brown and drummer Matt Wilson keep those slow tempos moving. The younger Brooklyn pianist Dominic Fallacaro has the sweet and sweeping stuff down, but I wish he always caught the bluesy undercurrents in the standard ballads, the way he does on the Billie Holiday tunes. This is her "Left Alone."


WHITEHEAD: One reason Jane Ira Bloom's ballads are usually so effective is the contrast with her fast numbers. On "Sixteen Sunsets," only a couple of songs outrun or even approach a medium tempo. One of those is her oldie "Ice Dancing," a bright tune with a tango tinge and a catchy ending like a mousetrap snapping shut.

But in the long run, this program of non-stop beautiful ballads starts to seem like too much of a good thing. Yeah, that's right - we're complaining about an overabundance of riches.


DAVIES: Kevin Whitehead writes for Point of Departure, Downbeat, and eMusic, and is the author of "Why Jazz?" He reviewed "Sixteen Sunsets," the new album by saxophonist Jane Ira Bloom. Coming up, Maureen Corrigan tells us about a new memoir by Diane Johnson which takes us to small-town life in the Midwest before the advent of television. This is FRESH AIR.

DAVE DAVIES, HOST: This is FRESH AIR. Award-winning novelist and essayist Diane Johnson frequently writes stories about American heroines living abroad in France as in her novels "Le Divorce" and "Le Affair." Johnson herself divides her time between France and California, but when she began to write her memoir, Johnson, who was born in 1934, found herself drawn back to her native ground of the American Midwest.

Her just-published memoir is called "Flyover Lives." Book critic Maureen Corrigan has this review.

MAUREEN CORRIGAN, BYLINE: The second best quality Diane Johnson has as a writer is that she's so smart. Her first best quality - and one that's far more rare - is that she credits her audience with being smart too. Whether she's writing fiction, biography or essays, Johnson lets scenes and conversations speak for themselves, accruing power as they lodge in readers' minds.

So it is with her memoir, "Flyover Lives," which is bookended by a moody anecdote. Johnson recalls how she and her husband were invited to spend a night at a friend's rental villa in Provence. The villa was filled with other American couples, and two of the men were retired Army generals whose well-preserved blonde wives were politely hostile to Johnson.

Even as Johnson embarks on her memoir proper - partly as a response to her French hostess's remark that you Americans are indifferent to history and don't really know where you're from - we readers are still troubled by the curious meanness of those other women.

"Flyover Lives" is a fairly traditional memoir, in that Johnson tries to define who she is by fleshing out the histories of her ancestors; but at the same time, that tale of the strangely sour house party adds a note of mystery. How do you ever really know what's going on with people, let alone the truth about the lives of your long-dead forebears?

"Flyover Lives" is a memoir of the Midwest sure to charm readers - especially of a certain age - with its detailed observations of small-town American life before the advent of television and rural meth labs. As a consequence of growing up in landlocked Moline, Illinois, Johnson read seafaring adventure tales as a girl and dreamed of being a pirate.

She perceptively observes the long reach of the past in the daily domestic routine of her childhood world. My aunts, all of them, Johnson recalls, always seemed to me to be busy making things - canning and quilting, knitting and crocheting - activities carried over from the preindustrial agricultural world in which they still seemed to live.

With the exception of her father, who had served overseas in World War I, none of my relatives, Johnson says, had been anywhere else; tales were not told about distant places, only about Bloomfield, or over to Pontiac or Muscatine or faraway Des Moines, journeys to be made by automobile on two-lane roads commenting on the progress of the crops, waiting for the Burma-Shave signs to unfold.

But of course some of Johnson's ancestors had to have caught a primordial itch for travel, and she locates her family's first arrival in a pair of brothers, Rene and Francois, who left France early in the 18th century and promptly had their names Americanized to Ranna and Franceway. Johnson discovers the brothers because of that greatest of boons to genealogical detectives: a distant relative who wrote things down.

In Johnson's case, the family chronicler was a great-great-grandmother named Catherine Martin. Martin was born in 1800 and wrote about immigrating to the Midwest with her husband and children, and homesteading in a two-room log cabin. Martin's account of losing her three little daughters - she calls them her three little prattlers - to an epidemic of scarlet fever within the space of one week is the devastating center of Johnson's family memoir.

Johnson tells us that her life, in comparison, has been lacking in drama. Granted, she escaped a bad early marriage and enjoyed some minor brushes with history - a summer job at Mademoiselle magazine where one of her fellow interns was Sylvia Plath; a screenwriting gig with Stanley Kubrick on "The Shining."

But "Flyover Lives" is, as its title suggests, chiefly a memoir that tries to recapture the texture of the life once lived by many people in the vast American heartland. If she has a larger aim, Johnson says it's to remind readers of things people talk about as being missing in America today - fairly simple things like mom-and-pop restaurants and nice, long vacations and trains.

Johnson is no reactionary and she's well aware of the pitfalls of nostalgia; but in "Flyover Lives" she vividly reminds us that the country we're all from is the unfamiliar one called the past.

DAVIES: Maureen Corrigan teaches literature at Georgetown University. She reviewed Diane Johnson's new memoir, called "Flyover Lives."

Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.

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