A Case of Arrested Development.

Show: FRESH AIR
Date: MARCH 31, 2000
Time: 12:00
Tran: 033101np.217
Type: FEATURE
Head: Interview With Jim Hall and Pat Metheny
Sect: Entertainment
Time: 12:06

This is a rush transcript. This copy may not
be in its final form and may be updated.

TERRY GROSS, HOST: From WHYY in Philadelphia, I'm Terry Gross with FRESH AIR.

On this archive edition of FRESH AIR, two great guitarists, Jim Hall and Pat Metheny, compare notes about music. They represent two different generations and two different approaches to the instrument. They're both featured at a jazz festival in San Francisco this weekend.

Kevin Spacey just won an Academy Award for his role in "American Beauty." Many of his fans first noticed him in the late '80s on the TV series "Wiseguy." Court TV begins rerunning the series this weekend. We'll listen back to a 1991 interview with Spacey in which he discusses that role.

And our rock historian, Ed Ward, a pop music obsessive, gives his take on the new movie about pop music obsessives, "High Fidelity."

That's all coming up on FRESH AIR.

First, the news.

(BREAK)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

Jim Hall is the favorite guitarist of many jazz musicians and listeners. For example, he's always been one of guitarist Pat Metheny's favorites. Metheny counts Hall as one of his greatest influences. Metheny has a big following among jazz and rock fans, and, like, Hall, has won many jazz polls.

Last year, Hall and Metheny collaborated on a CD of duets. It was the coming-together of two different generations and styles. Starting tonight, Hall and Metheny will be the focus of a guitar weekend as part of the San Francisco Jazz Festival, S.F. Jazz.

Hall started recording in the '50s, Metheny in the late '70s. Metheny has used synthesizers and other electronics to alter his sound, whereas Hall describes himself as still in the kerosene age, just a man, a guitar, and an amp.

Last July, we invited Hall and Metheny to join us and compare notes on their development as guitarists. We started with a track from their CD of duets. This is a Jim Hall composition called "Looking Up."

(AUDIO CLIP, EXCERPT, "LOOKING UP," JIM HALL AND PAT METHENY)

GROSS: Music from the new CD, "Jim Hall and Pat Metheny." Jim Hall and Pat Metheny, welcome to FRESH AIR.

JIM HALL, GUITARIST: Thank you, thanks a lot, Terry.

PAT METHENY, GUITARIST: Thanks, Terry, great to be here.

GROSS: Well, Pat Metheny, you grew up with rock and roll, and I'm wondering if that affected your idea of guitar playing and guitar amplification. I'm presuming you grew up with rock and roll. I might be wrong.

METHENY: Well, you know, it's funny, my case is a little odd. Yes, I did kind of get interested in the guitar at age 8 or 9, you know, like millions of other kids, largely due to the Beatles on "The Ed Sullivan Show" and that whole phenomenon that happened at that time. The odd thing in my case is that within a matter of weeks after getting a guitar, my older brother, Mike, brought home a Miles Davis record, "Four and More," and that changed my life immediately.

And it wasn't a gradual thing for me, it was sort of like an on-off switch that got switched. And I became probably the world's youngest jazz snob. I mean, by...

GROSS: (laughs)

METHENY: ... age 12, all I wanted to listen to was 'Trane and Miles and Sonny Rollins and Jim and Bill Evans and those records, and continued that way until I was 18 or 19 years old and started playing with Gary Burton (ph), whose band, you know, was messing around with things outside of just the straight up-and-down jazz, you know, tradition or whatever you'd want to call it. And it was kind of at that point that I became more kind of interested in kind of the other stuff that the guitar could do.

GROSS: It's really, I mean, like Jim Hall, when you were growing up, the popular music was jazz, right? It was...

HALL: In a certain sense, it was. There were these marvelous big bands around, which were -- the musicianship level was really high, and they were also popular with the public, I think largely because people could dance to them. So, yes, that was popular. And -- but I was sure there were tons of garbage around. (laughs)

GROSS: Yes, well, there always is. (laughs)

HALL: Yes, there always is, exactly. People don't change that much.

But my kind of spiritual awakening was when I heard Charlie Christian on a record with the Benny Goodman Sextet, and I'd say this a lot, but I didn't really know what he -- I had been playing about three years in little groups, and I didn't know what Charlie Christian was doing, but I said, That's great, I wish I could do that. And I still say the same thing.

GROSS: Well, I want to play another track from your new duet CD, "Jim Hall, Pat Metheny," and Pat Metheny, I'm going to ask you to choose a track. I know that you -- that Jim Hall has been one of the greatest influences on your playing, particularly when you were young and coming of age. I'm going to ask you to choose a track from the CD that you particularly like for Jim Hall's playing.

METHENY: I think I'd pick the track "Falling (ph) Grace," not -- and, I mean, I love the way Jim plays on this whole record. It's actually -- you know, there's so many things that Jim does so beautifully, and one of them is his accom -- his ability to accompany people is really sort of off-the-scale great.

And he -- of course he always plays these brilliant solos, but there's some stuff that he does when he plays behind people that is absolutely singular. There's just nothing like it. And he really has this link to, like, Freddy Green and that way of playing rhythm that is just about not around any more.

And yet at the same time, it's very modern, what he does. And the way he plays -- he plays a beautiful solo too, but the accompanying parts that he plays, you know, when I'm playing the melody on this track just kill me every time.

GROSS: OK, so this is "Falling Grace" from the Jim Hall-Pat Metheny duet record.

(AUDIO CLIP, EXCERPT, "FALLING GRACE," JIM HALL, PAT METHENY)

GROSS: That's Jim Hall and Pat Metheny from their new duet record on Telarc Jazz.

How did you guys both meet?

HALL: We -- I like to tell that story, so I'm going to jump in here.

GROSS: OK.

HALL: Pat was a juvenile delinquent...

(LAUGHTER)

GROSS: I don't think so.

HALL: (inaudible) -- it's -- yes, well, he had taken leave of home for a short while, and he came to New York, and he was with our mutual friend, whom we just lost, Atila Zoler (ph). And I was playing in a club called The Guitar. I was working with Ron Carter. And Atila brought this kid in with braces on his teeth. And I think you were 15, Pat.

METHENY: Yes.

HALL: And introduced him to Jane, my wife, and I -- and me. And that's how we met. And I think Atila was kind of taking Pat around New York. He had heard Pretty Hubbard (ph) and Bill Evans Trio. And I -- so I became aware of him then, and Atila said just -- "This kid is terrific, man." Atila was from Hungary, that's -- (laughs) -- that's my Hungarian accent.

And so I -- and then I noticed Pat -- I started to pay attention when he joined Gary Burton's group. So I've known him that long.

METHENY: Yes, we go back a ways. And of course, for me, you know, just hearing Jim, that trip live, that would have been in 1971, was just kind of a revelation for me. Of course, I already loved Jim's play from records. But seeing him -- we actually went, I think, five nights in a row, (inaudible).

HALL: Right, I'd forgotten.

METHENY: We went every night to hear you all. It was really the best music I had ever heard come from a guitar. And to this day I have memories, flashbacks of that gig. I mean, it was so fresh what Jim and Ron were playing together. And, you know, so he was already my hero, but he became doubly my hero from that experience.

And we kind of stayed in touch over the years, you know, when I kind of moved, you know, up to the, you know, East Coast area, you know, we'd see each other here and there, and...

HALL: We played a concert in '82, I think, together, right?

METHENY: That's right, at City College in New York. And then we did a little tour in France a few years later, I guess in the late '80s or early '90s, something like that. And we always talked about maybe, you know, playing together, be -- you know, on a record or something, because I think we always had a real natural, easy rapport as players. It was always fun and easy for us to play together.

And I think we always really responded to the way we listened to each other as players too, which is, for me, just the thing that I always look for in somebody that I really want to, like, make a record with or play with that much. I mean, it sort of went beyond for me the point, well, Jim is my favorite guitar player and all that. It was -- it went to another thing of, like, well, we play good together, and we can make music together in a natural, easy kind of way.

GROSS: My guests are Pat Metheny and Jim Hall. We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(BREAK)

GROSS: Let's get back to our interview with guitarists Jim Hall and Pat Metheny. It was recorded last summer after the release of their CD of duets.

Jim Hall, I'm going to ask you to choose a track from your new duet record with Pat Metheny that you think really shows off his playing.

HALL: Well, I'm -- I like -- there's two choices, actually. "Summertime," but Pat just plays rhythm on it, but it's so amazing, I just sort of float over the rhythm. That's one. The other is "Farmer's Trust," which is Pat's tune, which I love. It's a lovely tune. So I would say between those two, or both.

GROSS: Well, you're going to have to choose one.

HALL: OK, (inaudible)...

GROSS: Rules of the game.

METHENY: (laughs)

HALL: OK, "Farmer's Trust."

GROSS: OK, we'll play "Farmer's Trust." Why did you choose it?

HALL: I chose it because I love the tune. I like the title. It's kind of a play on words. "Farmer's Trust" is a bank...

METHENY: (laughs)

HALL: ... I believe, right, in your home town.

METHENY: Yes, used to be (inaudible).

HALL: And so it has kind of a mixed message, and it's a lovely tune. And I enjoyed playing the melody on it, and I love the way Pat plays on it.

GROSS: OK. This is from the new duet record featuring Jim Hall and Pat Metheny.

(AUDIO CLIP, EXCERPT, "FARMER'S TRUST," JIM HALL AND PAT METHENY)

GROSS: It's Jim Hall and Pat Metheny from their new CD of duets.

Pat Metheny, this might be a good time for me to pick up on something that Jim Hall said earlier when he was describing how you both met. He said that you were a juvenile delinquent who had temporarily left home. Was that an accurate description?

METHENY: Well, that may be a little bit exaggerated. (inaudible) if my parents are listening, they wouldn't hear it quite like that. No...

HALL: He's an adult delinquent now.

METHENY: Yes, I'm still slightly delinquent, I don't know about juvenile any more. But no, I was actually, in fact, very serious about music at a very young age, which caused people to really be concerned about me probably with good reason, as I look back on it now.

You know, I was, you know, you could almost say obsessed with the idea of learning about music and particularly jazz, to the point where I would practice, you know, 12, 15 hours a day for weeks on end, just trying to come to grips with the language of music, particularly beebop, which I don't know any other way you can do it. I mean, it's hard on any instrument. On a guitar, it's nearly impossible to really deal with that vocabulary.

And I guess everybody was just worried about me because I was also not studying math or history or anything like that, I was just practicing all the time. So I guess that's where my juvenile reputation comes from.

HALL: (laughs)

GROSS: But you weren't running around the street with switchblade knives, on the other hand.

METHENY: No, no, just guitar picks.

HALL: No, we took him off the street and got him a guitar, and look what happened. Should be a lesson to all of us.

GROSS: Now, you've both done your share in kind of expanding what a guitar does, and I would like you to each talk a little bit about what was expected of a guitarist when you started performing. You know, what did other people assume that the guitarist's role in the band was supposed to be?

Jim Hall, let's start with you.

HALL: Yes, that's interesting. I probably inferred out of guilt and that sort of stuff that I should be able to play decent rhythm guitar with or without -- occasionally I -- the King Cole Trio was great in that Oscar Moore (ph) played slightly amplified rhythm, so I could do that. So you had to have a good rhythmic feel, whatever that means, and I would say really to fit in was so important.

I played a lot -- especially when I was in my early teens, I played in a lot of groups where there was no bass fiddle, no string bass, and a lot of times there'd be drums, accordion, clarinet, and guitar, that sort of thing. So...

GROSS: What a strange combination.

HALL: (laughs) It seems so now, doesn't it? It was pretty usual. I remember when I heard my first string bass, and I couldn't get over that. I said, Wow, what is that? Low. I'm not sure. I guess playing good -- fitting in, making whatever situation -- but this goes for any instrument, though. So let's see, I'll try to narrow it down.

Rhythm playing was important in small groups and also in big bands. Being able to read music, for me, anyway, was important, the kind of jobs that I had. And then to have an amplifier so that one could play a melody occasionally or a solo if you were allowed to. (inaudible) was still relatively a new thing, I think, and this was in the 1930 -- early '40s, I think Charlie Christian had kind of made the amp part of the vocabulary.

I hadn't really thought of that before, but I hope I did it OK.

GROSS: I'm wondering, too, if there were any things that were expected of you as the guitarist in the band early in your career, that you didn't think really suited you.

HALL: Singing?

GROSS: (laughs)

HALL: Singing, dancing. I can't dance, don't ask me.

GROSS: Yes, but was the guitarist expected to dance?

HALL: I -- (laughs) I just -- I don't really know. Playing loud, I guess. I never -- for some reason, I'm still not sure why, I never was able to -- I tried to kind of blend in all the time. Playing fast, there you are, there's one. Said -- (inaudible) -- anybody ask me to play fast, I'm going home. And I still (laughs), I still feel like that.

GROSS: (laughs) But why is that?

HALL: I think it's partly my makeup, my personality makeup. I tend to take a -- I take a long view of things as I'm -- even if I'm just walking down the street, I tend to gawk around and look at things. And I -- it's hard for me to move fast, and I think fast -- I'm not thinking terribly fast at the moment.

(LAUGHTER)

HALL: But yes, I'd rather play something with a nice, groovy feeling to it than play "I Got Rhythm" real fast. Or "Giant Steps." I sort of make a kind of joke that on the subways where it says "Handicapped Seating," I'm allowed to sit there because of the way I play "Giant" -- anybody ask me to move, I say, Have you heard me play "Giant Steps"? (laughs)

GROSS: (laughs) Oh, that's funny.

Pat Metheny, when, when, when you were first starting to, to play, what was expected of you as the guitarist in the band, and did you ever feel anybody ever expected you to, like, play fast like Tal Farlow (ph) or get Wes Montgomery's sound before you knew what the Pat Metheny sound was, was? And, you know, who you were, what your real identity was as a player?

METHENY: Well, I was lucky to be around musicians in Kansas City who actively discouraged that, who, when you would play something that sounded like Wes Montgomery, instead of saying, Wow, that's great that you sound like Wes Montgomery, they would kind of dis you for it. And that is something that has really changed just between my generation and the generations that have followed, is that now it's kind of OK if you sound like somebody else. Hardly anybody even questions it any more. It's sort of -- it's just kind of part of the thing.

For me, I really came up, even though I feel very strongly indebted to Wes and Jim as well, whenever I find myself doing overtly Jimmy -- Jim kinds of things or Wes kinds of things, I don't see it as a good thing, I don't see it as a, oh, that's success. To me that's like, you know, I should try not to do that, you know, and, you know, that's something I always attribute to, you know, some guys that I was around in Kansas City who always, you know, made sure to let me know that jazz is music of individuals, and of people finding their own voice and their own way of playing and their own way of looking at music.

And, you know, I've always been around -- luckily been around musicians who really kind of put that in no uncertain terms. You know, I've mentioned Gary Burton a few times. He's a strong individual kind of player. I was lucky to be around Ornette Coleman quite a bit, who is probably the most individual of individuals, you know, when it comes to defining your own way of thinking about music, and that's always been very important to me, even though I've embraced a lot of different things stylistically, I always try to do it from a real personal point of view.

GROSS: Pat Metheny and Jim Hall, recorded last summer after the release of a CD of duets. This weekend they'll lead their own groups at a jazz festival in San Francisco. We'll hear more of the interview in the second half of the show.

I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

(AUDIO CLIP, EXCERPT, GUITAR PIECE, JIM HALL AND PAT METHENY)

(BREAK)

GROSS: Coming up, our rock historian, Ed Ward, reviews the new movie "High Fidelity." Also, we feature an interview from the archive with Kevin Spacey, who just won the Oscar for best actor. And we continue our interview with guitarists Jim Hall and Pat Metheny.

(BREAK)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR.

I'm Terry Gross, back with more of our interview with guitarists Jim Hall and Pat Metheny. It was recorded last summer after the release of their CD of duets.

This weekend, they'll lead their own groups in a series of concerts at a jazz festival in San Francisco.

Let's hear another track from their duets CD. This is "All the Things You Are."

(AUDIO CLIP, EXCERPT, "ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE," JIM HALL, PAT METHENY)

GROSS: How did you each know that guitar was it for you, that it wasn't going to be about trumpet or clarinet or piano, it was guitar?

HALL: In my case, I had an uncle, my Uncle Ed, in kind of Hillbilly, Ohio, who played the guitar and sang kind of like Willy Nelson stuff. And I (inaudible) again inferring like 100 years later, but I think I kind of looked up to him. He also always had cute ladies around him, so that was (laughs), that was another incentive.

But he played the guitar, and then my mom got me a guitar when I was 9, I think. But the interesting -- ironic or whatever part of it for me is that I quickly realized that I -- the instrument that I really hear more than the guitar, even, is maybe the tenor saxophone or the (inaudible) -- I hear someplace between a tenor saxophone and a piano. So even though I'm playing the guitar, I think my hearing or my psyche, or whatever it is, is more attuned to wind instruments. So it was kind of a split there.

GROSS: Have you ever played one?

HALL: No, I -- well, I played piano a bit in -- to get through music school, but I played with some great saxophone players. I was really fortunate that way, starting with Ben Webster and then Sonny Rollins, of course, and then Paul Desmond, I worked with Paul a lot. And now I'm working with Greg Osby (ph), speaking of individuals. He's (laughs) determinedly individual.

METHENY: He sure is.

HALL: Yes.

GROSS: So what do you think it is about, say, saxophones that carries over into your playing? I mean, it's not, it's not the rhythm part, there's no, like, a rhythm saxophone. What is it about the, the, the, the tone or...

HALL: Yes, it -- case of the tenor saxophone, it's the register of it, I think, and the breath of it, the long -- the fact that you can play a note really long, and I could sustain. The fact that the -- you can't hear picking sounds when a guy plays a saxophone, so I -- especially when I was with Jim Jewfrey (ph), Jimmy would get after me if he heard lots of picking in something that he had written, so I'd try to figure out a saxophone way of playing it.

So I guess it's the breath and the expressiveness that's possible on a wind instrument. And I try to get that out of the guitar. And in a certain sense, I use the amplifier to play softer, in that if I'm playing with an amp, amplifier, I can hit the strings softer, I can use a softer-gauge string, and still have it project. Whereas it -- if I were playing an acoustic guitar, I'd really kind of have to bang on it to project.

GROSS: So, so do you think he used the amplifier too to get some of the sustain and legato that a horn player could easily get?

HALL: Yes, exactly.

GROSS: And Pat Metheny, how did you know that guitar was it for you?

METHENY: Well, I'm from a family of trumpet players, and I in fact started on trumpet myself when I was about 8. My older brother, Mike, is a excellent trumpet player, kind of -- he was almost like a child prodigy around the Kent City area playing concerns and stuff sort of when he was, you know, very young. And my dad is a good trumpet player, my grandfather was a professional trumpet player his whole life, played under John Philip Sousa and, you know, it's just a natural thing to play the trumpet.

Jim mentioned that when he first met me, I had braces on my teeth, which I did for almost four years, and that made playing the trumpet excruciatingly painful. (laughs)

GROSS: (laughs)

METHENY: And besides that, I wasn't a natural trumpet player the way my brother was, and I was constantly being compared to him, you know, because he was, you know, this kind of sensation. So -- and, you know, the thing of the Beatles and the guitar and all that stuff happening, you know, as a cultural phenomenon definitely got my attention as well, and also the last thing in the world my parents wanted me to do was play the guitar, which, at age 11, was like throwing gasoline on a fire as my desire for the guitar increased.

So I just kind of gravitated towards it for probably not musical reasons at the beginning. But once I sort of found myself in the midst of it, and started to hear some of the music that had been played on the instrument in jazz, it seemed like a kind of open-ended place to be. And, you know, I have to admit, there are -- I hear trumpet in my head. I mean, my favorite musicians in many ways -- in many cases are trumpet players, especially Miles Davis and Freddy Hubbard (ph). Those are kind of my two real models, with Clifford Brown not far behind for -- especially for phrasing details.

And I still love trumpet players, and I have to admit, when I'm playing, I'm thinking trumpet in a lot of ways, even in terms of breathing and fingering and everything. But the guitar has something else in its flexibility that's real special.

GROSS: You, you, you, you, you, you, you mention breathing, you know, breathing as if you were playing trumpet. When you're playing a wind instrument, you really have to know where to breathe, and you have to breathe in a musical place. Theoretically, when you're playing guitar, no one will know when you're breathing. But do you still have to figure out where you're going to breathe?

METHENY: I -- you know, it's funny, I hold my breath while I'm playing, and when I take a pause, I -- in the line, I breathe. And I've always done that. I -- and it's just a subconscious thing for me that comes from starting out as a trumpet player, I think. And I think it actually...

GROSS: Jim Hall, what about you? Is, is -- do you find that too?

HALL: Yes, that's actually a terrific question. I (inaudible) Pat and I recorded before this duet album, Pat did one track on an album of mine. We played "Django (ph)" with this group of strings. And I -- we both played acoustic guitars. And the microphone was close to my head, (laughs) and I could hear myself not only breathing but singing. This was pretty disgusting (inaudible).

METHENY: (laughs)

GROSS: (laughs)

HALL: But I know that I was breath -- I sound like I'm ordering food from the booth, kind of. Yes, I -- evidently I do, I -- more than I knew, even, I guess I sing everything that I play, or attempt to sing it. At least -- so, yes, I am breathing too.

GROSS: Well, Pat Metheny, Jim Hall, I want to thank you both very much for talking with us.

HALL: Thank you, Terry, it was great.

METHENY: It's been great, Terry, thanks.

GROSS: Pat Metheny and Jim Hall, recorded last summer after the release of their CD of duets. This weekend they'll lead their own groups at a jazz festival in San Francisco.

(BREAK)

TO PURCHASE AN AUDIOTAPE OF THIS PIECE, PLEASE CALL 877-21FRESH
Dateline: Terry Gross, Philadelphia, PA
Guest: Jim Hall, Pat Metheny
High: Jazz guitarists Jim Hall and Pat Metheny talk about their collaboration on the album "Jim Hall & Pat Mentheny." Hall emerged on the jazz scene in the late 1950's and went on to perform with such artists as Ella Fitzgerald, Sonny Rollins, Bill Evans, Art Farmer and Itzhak Perlman. Metheny's recording career took off in the 1970's and became so successful that "Guitar Player" magazine called him the "Jazz Voice of the 80s." Their August 1999 recording was hailed as a cross-generational summit of two exceptional jazz guitarists. This weekend, the San Francisco Jazz festival hosts "The Guitar," a program featuring Jim Hall and Pat Metheny.
Spec: Jim Hall; Pat Metheny; Music Industry; Entertainment

Please note, this is not the final feed of record
Copy: Content and programming copyright 2000 WHYY, Inc. All rights reserved. Transcribed by FDCH, Inc. under license from WHYY, Inc. Formatting copyright 2000 FDCH, Inc. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to WHYY, Inc. This transcript may not be reproduced in whole or in part without prior written permission.
End-Story: Interview With Jim Hall and Pat Metheny

Show: FRESH AIR
Date: MARCH 31, 2000
Time: 12:00
Tran: 033102NP.217
Type: FEATURE
Head: Ed Ward Reviews 'High Fidelity'
Sect: Entertainment
Time: 12:

This is a rush transcript. This copy may not
be in its final form and may be updated.

TERRY GROSS, HOST: "High Fidelity" is a new film about guys obsessed with pop music who have a hard time relating to people. John Cusack plays the owner of a used-record store. Cusack also co-wrote the screenplay, which was adapted from the best-selling novel by Nick Hornby. The movie was directed by Steven Frears.

Our rock historian, Ed Ward, is a pop music obsessive who's very familiar with the world of used-record stores, so we went him to see the movie.

ED WARD, ROCK HISTORIAN: The very first seconds of "High Fidelity" will, I think, determine your reaction to what transpires over the next two hours of the film. Before you can get a visual fix on what's going on, the sound track blasts forth with "You're Gonna Miss Me," performed by the 13th Floor Elevators, a semihit from 1966.

If your reaction is, Huh? or if you don't have one, because you're waiting for the film to start, you'll be OK, since this is a rapid-fire comedy. If your reaction is, Hey, cool, the Elevators, you're in trouble, dude, because this film will make you squirm.

Yeah, I mean dude. The phenomenon of record collecting and its attendant mania, list-making, is pretty much a 100 percent male phenomenon, and all too many of the males in question are in a state of arrested adolescence, like Rob, played by John Cusack, owner of a used-record shop in Chicago whose girlfriend, Laura, played by the Danish actress Iben Hjejle, is leaving him as the 13th Floor Elevators play on.

Why is she walking out? It's not too hard to figure out as the film unreels.

Rob's got two employees at the store, the rotund Barry, opinionated and sarcastic, and Dick, quiet and nerdy, with an astonishing databank of obscure information, played by Jack Black and Todd Louiso, respectively. They're bonded as only music obsessives can bond. Rob confesses he hired them for four days once, and they just stayed.

On most days, life at the record store is like this little exchange between Rob and Barry.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, "HIGH FIDELITY")

JACK BLACK, ACTOR: Rob, it's your turn.

JOHN CUSACK, ACTOR: OK. I'm feeling kind of basic today. Top five side ones, track ones.

Jamie Jones, "Clash," from "The Clash."

BLACK: Ennnhh.

CUSACK: "Let's Get It On," Marvin Gaye, from "Let's Get It On."

Nirvana smells like teen spirit and -- never mind.

BLACK: Oh, no, Rob, that's not obvious enough, not at all. How about "Point of No Return" on "Point of No Return"? Lewis, so you couldn't (ph) get up (inaudible).

CUSACK: "White Light, White Beach," Velvet Underground."

BLACK: OK, that would be on my list.

ACTOR: Though not on mine.

CUSACK: Massive Attack, "No Protection," the song is "Radiation Ruling the Nation."

BLACK: Oh, kind of a new record, very...

ACTOR: Excuse me, (inaudible)...

BLACK: In a minute. Very nice, Rob. A sly declaration of new classic status slipped into a list of old safe ones. Very (bleep).

ACTOR: Excuse me, I was (inaudible)...

BLACK: In a minute. Couldn't you be any more obvious than that, Rob? How about, I don't know, the Beatles? How about Beethoven, track one, side one, of the Fifth Symphony?

How can someone who has no interest in music own a record store?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

WARD: But Rob's out of sorts, as he admits. He's finally hit the wall. Earlier in the film, he's introduced his top five most painful breakups list, just to convince himself that Laura, who's just walked out on him, didn't even make the cut. Just to prove it, he replays each relationship for us, ending with the breakup.

This is one of the things which makes "High Fidelity" so unusual. Instead of opting for a traditional narrative style or a voice-over, Cusack has chosen to address the audience directly, breaking down the fourth wall and making the film feel very much like the semi-rant the novel is. It shouldn't work, or it should be annoying, but it's not, it serves instead to make both Rob's character more sympathetic and the film at large more involving.

In order to free himself from the shackles of the past, Rob decides to find each of his ex-girlfriends to figure out why they broke up with him. Oddly, they're almost all still in Chicago, which makes his job easier. And just to confuse things, he has a short affair with a singer-songwriter played rather unconvincingly by Lisa Bonet.

Considering how hard both Hornby's original novel and this screenplay are on the character of poor Rob, the problem is making his daunting realization of the fact that his problem with Laura is his problem seem realistic, as well as making the connection between his obsessively judging music and obsessively judging people, or at least female ones, since his co-workers have obviously escaped judgment.

The transition is gradual and credible, and given that it would have been all too easy just to skewer the whole scene as a bunch of losers, the sympathy and compassion on view here makes "High Fidelity" a remarkable film, whose two hours speed by in a blur of one-liners, superbly chosen music, and insightful monologues. Even obnoxious Barry has a hidden virtue, which comes out in the end.

I'm no film reviewer or, truth be told, much of a filmgoer, so I don't know if I'm supposed to end this with some great overall message. I guess I could say it's a great date movie if you figure you'll need to explain to her at some point why you have 7,500 albums all over your apartment. Or I could say it's a plea for tolerance for those of us who have at some point in our lives been overwhelmed by a harmless obsession like record collecting, showing that we can eventually become normal-ish human beings.

But mostly, "High Fidelity" is a very atypical film with no explosions or car chases, plenty of laughs, and a keen insight into the human condition, which is fine with me, even if it made me squirm.

GROSS: Ed Ward is FRESH AIR's rock historian. He reviewed the new movie "High Fidelity."

FRESH AIR's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our engineer is Audrey Bentham. Dorothy Ferebee is our administrative assistant. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our theme music was composed by Joel Forrester and performed by the Microscopic Septet.

I'm Terry Gross.

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Dateline: Terry Gross, Philadelphia, PA
Guest: Ed Ward
High: Our rock historian Ed Ward steps in to review the new film "High Fidelity," starring John Cusack.
Spec: "High Fidelity"; Movie Industry; Entertainment

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End-Story: Ed Ward Reviews 'High Fidelity'
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