Transcript
TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley.
The musical "Wicked" is a top contender at this year's Academy Awards, with 10 Oscar nominations, including best supporting actress for my guest today, Ariana Grande. "Wicked" has become somewhat of a cultural phenomenon, introducing new layers of the story of Oz that really challenge audiences to look beyond surface appearances and question preconceived notions of good and evil. Ariana Grande stars as the privileged and popular Galinda, who develops a friendship with Elphaba, played by Cynthia Erivo, born with green skin and ostracized by society. As a prequel to "The Wizard of Oz," the film is set years before Dorothy arrives in Oz, and it charts the transformations of Elphaba into the Wicked Witch of the West and Galinda into Glinda the Good.
Here's Grande, as Galinda, singing "Popular," a song that gives insights into her character.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "POPULAR")
ARIANA GRANDE: (As Galinda) Elphie, now that we're friends, I've decided to make you my new project.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: (As Elphaba) Oh, you really don't have to do that.
GRANDE: (As Galinda, singing) I know. That's what makes me so nice. (Singing) Whenever I see someone less fortunate than I - and let's face it - right? - who isn't less fortunate than I? - my tender heart tends to start to bleed. And when someone needs a makeover, I simply have to take over. I know, I know exactly what they need. And even in your case - though it's the toughest case I've yet to face - don't worry, I'm determined to succeed. Follow my lead, and yes, indeed, you will be popular.
(As Galinda, singing) You're gonna be popular. I'll teach you the proper ploys when you talk to boys, little ways to flirt and flounce. Ooh. I'll show you what shoes to wear, how to fix your hair, everything that really counts to be popular. I'll help you be popular. You'll hang with the right cohorts, you'll be good at sports, know the slang you've got to know. So let's start 'cause you've got an awfully long way to go.
MOSLEY: Ariana Grande says that from the moment she first saw the musical on Broadway at 10 years old, her life was divided into two chapters - before "Wicked" and after.
GRANDE: True.
MOSLEY: This is true?
GRANDE: This is very true.
MOSLEY: Ariana Grande, welcome to FRESH AIR.
GRANDE: Thank you, Tonya, for having me. Thank you so much.
MOSLEY: You know, this movie has become a cultural phenomenon, and it's so interesting how the subtext really speaks to the time period that we're in. It's a timeless story, but it also is like...
GRANDE: ...Very timely.
MOSLEY: Yeah, very...
GRANDE: Yes.
MOSLEY: ...Timely. You first saw "Wicked" on Broadway at 10?
GRANDE: Yes, I was 10 years old, and I got to see the original Broadway cast with Kristin Chenoweth and Idina Menzel and Norbert Leo Butz and Christopher Fitzgerald. And it was very life-changing.
MOSLEY: What was it about "Wicked"? Because I know that you were somewhat of a theater kid.
GRANDE: Yeah.
MOSLEY: You were singing lots of musicals, but this...
GRANDE: Yes.
MOSLEY: ...One in particular really spoke to you.
GRANDE: Yes. I mean, I think, you know, I was so young. Of course, I loved the music. I loved the comedy. I remember Glinda's impact on the audience and that infectious laughter and how it made me feel and everyone around me. I think that was just, like, so impactful, but also the themes of sisterhood. I don't think I ever saw a show or anything at that point that revolved around these two women who are so different, learning each other and really falling in love with each other through their differences and kind of learning how to protect and accept and celebrate each other, even when it meant that they disagreed. It was just kind of, like, this embodiment of, like, true unconditional love and friendship in a way that I hadn't seen portrayed in a story before. And I think it really spoke to me.
MOSLEY: When you received word that you got the role, you reached out to Kristin - you reached out to Chenoweth, right?
GRANDE: Yes. So we had worked together before on "Hairspray Live!" so I knew her a little bit from working together, and she was one of my first phone calls. I was very excited to tell her, and it was a very special and tearful exchange. She was very supportive of me throughout the course of my audition process as well 'cause I went through quite an extensive audition process. I was so excited to have the chance to even be seen at all. But I wanted to tell her right away when I got the audition, and she was a big cheerleader.
MOSLEY: Did she give you any advice?
GRANDE: You know what? It was kind of like she was just really supportive of me finding my own Glinda. And that was kind of just the exact green light or pink light that I needed.
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
GRANDE: It was really special to hear that from her because, of course, we have this tremendous responsibility to find that balance between paying homage to this source material that is beloved and has been iconic and has been a part of people's lives for 22 years at this point while also bringing our own truths and our own selves to these women and finding that balance.
So getting the green light from her to kind of play and improv and put my own spin on her was such a helpful and beautiful gift to receive, even from the very beginning. And I - yeah, I'm so grateful for the ways in which she and Idina have championed us and embraced Cynthia and me throughout this journey. It's been very special.
MOSLEY: Is it true that you auditioned five times?
GRANDE: I - OK, so I auditioned three times.
MOSLEY: OK.
GRANDE: My first audition, I sang actually for both roles. Even though I came in all pink. I knew I was Glinda. I knew that was what I was supposed to be doing. I think they just asked me to sing for both parts. So, of course...
MOSLEY: For Elphaba and for - yes.
GRANDE: Yes, for both witches. So I was, of course, down to do whatever was asked of me, of course. And I had started training with my vocal coach, Eric Vetro, three months before my first audition to train my voice to sing in a coloratura soprano placement, which is quite different from what I usually do. Even though my voice naturally sits in a high register, it's a totally different style of singing. And, you know, though I do use my falsetto quite often in pop music, it's just a completely different style, tone, vibrato sound.
And usually, I'm using in pop music either my, like, mixxy (ph) belt or my whistle register. So there's this big gap in between those two, which is where Glinda kind of lives and where that operatic sound needed to be strengthened and found in my voice and trained to become authentic-sounding. It really required a lot of work. And what was really fun and interesting about that was that I went to get my vocal cords checked at the beginning of my training process to see if I could see a difference in, like, the muscles, like, just how...
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: ...The shape is and...
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: ...Like, you can actually track the cords changing shape while I was training and stuff like that. It's really - I'm a nerd for that kind of stuff, but the training was extensive, and it was really thrilling to follow the progress and...
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: So for my first audition, I sang "No One Mourns The Wicked" and "Popular," but I also sang "The Wizard And I" and "Defining Gravity." But it was very clear what I was meant for.
MOSLEY: What you were there for. Right.
GRANDE: Yes.
MOSLEY: For Glinda.
GRANDE: And if in case it wasn't clear, I was an all pink and I had a pink mug, and I had a pink...
(LAUGHTER)
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: Everything was very Galinda-fied.
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: Just sending the subliminal message. And then I was called back for Galinda, and I sang more Galinda songs. So that was my second audition, and that was really thrilling. And I got to do my scenes with the casting associate Tiffany Little from Bernie Telsey's office. And she was masked because this was during...
MOSLEY: During COVID, yeah.
GRANDE: Like, kind of a little wave of it at the tail end of COVID. But the best thing was feeling that I could tell under her mask that she was giggling cause her eyes were smiling.
MOSLEY: You could see the smile in her eyes, yeah, yeah.
GRANDE: And I could feel it. And it was just really special.
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: And then my final callback was a chemistry test with two different Elphabas. It was three hours long. And they were so beautiful and wonderful, but surprisingly, neither one of them was Cynthia, so we didn't actually get to chemistry test together at all.
MOSLEY: Oh, my gosh.
GRANDE: Isn't that insane?
MOSLEY: That is...
GRANDE: Yeah
MOSLEY: ...Because you all have so much chemistry. We're going to talk about that a little bit later.
GRANDE: Oh, I can't wait (laughter).
MOSLEY: I want to play a little bit from the film so that folks can get an idea of your voice training that you're talking about.
GRANDE: Oh, sure.
MOSLEY: And you are known for your four-octave range, but your acting is on full display in the film. But as you mentioned, like, you really had to get your voice in shape for this. And so let's play a little bit of "No One Mourns The Wicked."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "NO ONE MOURNS THE WICKED")
TARIK FRIMPONG: (As Munchkinland Crier) Look, it's Glinda.
GRANDE: (As Galinda, singing) Let us be glad. Let us speak grateful. Let us rejoicify that goodness could subdue the wicked workings of you know who. Isn't it nice to know that good will conquer evil? The truth we all believe'll, by and by, outlive a lie for you and…
JAMES DRYDEN: (As No One Mourns Munchkin, singing) No one mourns the wicked.
MOSLEY: That was my guest, Ariana Grande, singing "No One Mourns The Wicked" from the musical "Wicked." We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF WICKED MOVIE CAST AND THE WICKED ORCHESTRA SONG, "DEFYING GRAVITY (SING-ALONG)")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. And today, I'm talking to Oscar-nominated actress and performer Ariana Grande. She stars in the musical "Wicked" as Galinda, alongside Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba. The two develop a friendship while students at Shiz University years before Dorothy's arrival in Oz from Kansas. The film also charts the transformations of Elphaba into the Wicked Witch of the West and Galinda into Glinda the Good. In addition to acting, Grande is a Grammy Award-winning singer with seven studio albums to her credit.
You mentioned all of the practice and the preparation for your voice to be able to take on the music. I'm always interested when folks have such a special voice like yours, this four-octave range.
GRANDE: Thank you.
MOSLEY: When you discovered that you actually had that range.
GRANDE: Oh, my goodness. Thank you, but I don't know. I mean, I was always singing. I don't remember a time in my life when I wasn't singing. Like, as soon as I could speak, I was singing. I grew up in a really musical household. Neither one of my parents did music, but they loved music. And they loved to sing. We had a karaoke machine.
MOSLEY: You all did karaoke at home?
GRANDE: Yes. (Laughter) Yes.
MOSLEY: Yeah?
GRANDE: We had one.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: We had a karaoke machine in the living room.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: It was, like, kind of an obstruction. It was, like, in the way of the furniture. There was no...
MOSLEY: (Laughter) Because they're always bulky.
GRANDE: (Laughter) Yes.
MOSLEY: I did, too. I grew up that way, too, by the way, yeah.
GRANDE: Yeah. But wasn't it the best?
MOSLEY: Yeah, I mean, all the time.
GRANDE: Yeah.
MOSLEY: Yeah. So would you all just - special occasions or just sometimes just get up there and pull out the karaoke?
GRANDE: Oh, every day. It was quite a thing. Like, as soon as I got home from school, I was singing. As soon as my mom and dad got home from work, they were singing. And my brother was in musical theater at school, and so I would go see him in his shows. And I looked up to him so much. I just thought, oh, my goodness, I want to be onstage. I want to be like Frankie and be doing musical theater. And we just loved singing so much.
MOSLEY: I want to know what types of songs you and your dad would sing on karaoke.
GRANDE: My dad?
MOSLEY: Yeah, you two. Would you sing together ever?
GRANDE: Sometimes. I mean, yes, we all sang together. But my dad was super into the Beatles. We did a lot of that stuff, Bee Gees maybe, Beach Boys.
MOSLEY: "How Deep Is Your Love" and that kind of stuff? Yeah.
GRANDE: Yeah, Beach Boys, too. Lots of Beatles. I love the Beatles. My mom was a total diva, like, Donna Summer, Barbra Streisand, Celine Dion. Frankie was a mix of everything, got some Madonna, some Spice Girls in there, Judy Garland. All of it. And my grandparents loved to sing as well, my grandpa more than anyone (laughter).
MOSLEY: Really, yeah?
GRANDE: Yeah. Lots of Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: ...Belting from the top of his voice.
MOSLEY: Right.
GRANDE: And, yeah, it was an expression of love.
MOSLEY: Yes. Did you have favorites? Because I know that when you decided and knew that you wanted to be a singer, I read that you actually sent demos with you singing lots of different folks' music
GRANDE: (Laughter).
MOSLEY: Like Whitney Houston and Celine Dion and those folks.
GRANDE: Yes, I loved a good cover, you know, back in the day. But, yeah, I always loved the divas, the big, big voices. I looked up to Whitney and Mariah and Celine endlessly. And I think that's a large part of the reason why I learned to sing, was just because that's who I was singing along with.
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: You know, growing up.
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: Yeah.
MOSLEY: How often do you take your voice to that whistle octave range?
GRANDE: Not too often. I feel like it has to be, you know, not without emotional intention, you know? It's a fun trick, but it has to serve a purpose. I try not to abuse it.
MOSLEY: It has to serve a purpose in a song, in a moment...
GRANDE: Yeah, yeah.
MOSLEY: ...Where you're wanting to take the listener to a place.
GRANDE: Yeah.
MOSLEY: Is that what you're saying?
GRANDE: Yeah, I think so. I try to be very discerning with the ways I use my voice. And sometimes you don't need to just do it because it's there, you know? I kind of try to find the right places and moments and make sure that it's kind of with an emotional attachment or serving a purpose, yeah.
MOSLEY: Yeah. What is the whistle register, for those who don't know?
GRANDE: So the whistle register is the incredibly, incredibly high notes made most famous by Mariah Carey. The whistle, whistle, whistle register notes - they're in "Emotions," they're in "Vision Of Love." They're in a lot of her most famous records. And a lot of opera singers as well use the whistle register, too.
MOSLEY: I want to play another pivotal scene from the film. It's when your character, Galinda, and Elphaba first meet. And Elphaba has arrived at school, and everyone reacts. They're really startled by the color of her skin, which is green. The interaction the two of you have showcases your differences because Elphaba is strong and smart, and you're kind of silly and a little bit superficial. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "WICKED")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As character) Ah.
(CROSSTALK)
ERIVO: (As Elphaba) What? What are you staring at? Do I have something in my teeth?
GRANDE: (As Galinda) No, it's just you're green.
ERIVO: (As Elphaba) I am.
(CROSSTALK)
ERIVO: (As Elphaba) Fine. Let's get this over with. No, I am not seasick. No, I did not eat grass as a child. And yes, I've always been green.
GRANDE: (As Galinda) Well, I, for one, am so sorry that you have been forced to live with this.
ERIVO: (As Elphaba) Is that so?
GRANDE: (As Galinda) Yes. And it is my intention to major in sorcery, so if, at some point, you wanted to address the problem...
ERIVO: (As Elphaba) Problem.
GRANDE: (As Galinda) ...Perhaps I could help.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTORS #1: (As characters) Aw.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character) She's so good. She's so good.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #3: (As character) We love you.
(CHEERING)
GRANDE: (As Galinda) All right.
ERIVO: (As Elphaba) Offering to help someone that you don't know with skills that you don't have - I'm sure everyone is duly impressed.
GRANDE: (As Galinda) I could care less what others think.
ERIVO: (As Elphaba) Couldn't.
GRANDE: (As Galinda) What?
ERIVO: (As Elphaba) You couldn't care less what other people think, though I doubt that.
MOSLEY: That was my guest, Ariana Grande, staring as Galinda in the musical film "Wicked." Ariana, Galinda is kind of like the foil for Elphaba. She represents conformity and societal expectations while Elphaba embodies this rebellious thing. You know, she's trying to be an individual. She's kind of forced to be because she is seen as such. Are there elements of both of them - it's so interesting that you came prepared to audition for both of them, knowing that you were there for one. But do you see elements of yourself in both characters or either of the characters?
GRANDE: It's funny because I feel like that is why "Wicked" is what it is. I think that's why people respond to it the way that they do because I think pieces of both of these women exist within all of us. And I think that's what makes it hit home the way that it does and touch people the way that it does because I think everyone can identify a time in their life where they felt like Elphaba at the center of the dance floor at the Ozdust ballroom, while everyone is circled around her laughing or making her feel othered. Everyone, I think, has felt that at least once.
And simultaneously, I think everyone can also acknowledge a time in their life where they felt like Galinda in that moment as well, where they know that the mirror is being held up, and they have an opportunity to change and to become better, where their bubble of privilege or of circumstance that is specific to them is popped for the first time, a life-changing moment where we learn to see something a different way. And I think because of the incredible nuance and humanness that lives within both of them, that's why they both live in all of us kind of.
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: And I think that's why it feels the way it does for so many people.
MOSLEY: Our guest today is Oscar-nominated actress and performer Ariana Grande. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WHAT IS THIS FEELING?")
GRANDE: (As Galinda, singing) What is this feeling so sudden and new?
ERIVO: (As Elphaba, singing) I felt the moment I laid eyes on you.
GRANDE: (As Galinda, singing) My pulse is rushing.
ERIVO: (As Elphaba) My head is reeling.
GRANDE: (As Galinda) Yeah, well, my face is flushing.
CYNTHIA ERIVO AND ARIANA GRANDE: (As Elphaba and Galinda, singing) What is this feeling fervid as a flame? Does it have a name? Yes. Loathing, unadulterated loathing.
GRANDE: (As Galinda) For your face.
ERIVO: (As Elphaba) Your voice.
GRANDE: (As Galinda, singing) Your clothing.
ERIVO AND GRANDE: (As Elphaba and Galinda, singing) Let's just say I loathe it all. Every little trait, however small, makes my very flesh begin to crawl with simple utter loating. There's a strange exhilaration in such total detestation. It's so pure, so strong. Though I do admit it came on fast. Still, I do believe that it can last. And I will be loathing, loathing you my whole life long.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTORS #2: (As characters, singing) Dear Galinda, you are just too good. How do you stand it? I don't think I could. She's a terror. She's a tarter. We don't need to show a bias, but Galinda, you're a martyr.
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley, and my guest today is Oscar-nominated actress and two-time Grammy Award-winning singer Ariana Grande. She stars as Galinda in the movie musical "Wicked," with Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba. The stage musical and movie are loosely based on the 1995 novel "Wicked: The Life And Times Of The Wicked Witch Of The West," by Gregory Maguire, based on the Oz book series by L. Frank Baum and the 1939 film "The Wizard Of Oz." Grande began her career as a teen actress, appearing in the Broadway musical "13" in 2008. She rose to fame as Cat Valentine in the Nickelodeon television series "Victorious" and its spinoff series "Sam & Cat." She became a pop music star with her debut album "Yours Truly" in 2013, which debuted at No. 1 on the Billboard 200. Grande is known for her four-octave vocal range, extending to the whistle register.
Is it true that the two of you insisted on - because Cynthia is also an amazing vocalist as well.
GRANDE: She's the best in the whole world.
MOSLEY: (Laughter) Yeah.
GRANDE: She really is, I swear. And as incredible - I'm sorry, I promise to let you ask your question (laughter). But as beautiful as she sounds in the film and in the end result, whatever it is, it's even more stunning face to face, just in person, in the thin air. It's just such a spectacular gift that she has. I'm sorry. What was the question (laughter)?
MOSLEY: Well, the two of you alI - is it true that you insisted on singing on set?
GRANDE: Yes.
MOSLEY: Which doesn't always happen when there's a musical movie happening, yeah.
GRANDE: Yeah. Well, it kind of demands it. The material demands that because the emotional context of what we're singing about sometimes can evoke the performance to be different take to take. Sometimes it's more emotional, sometimes it's different, sometimes it's stronger sometimes. And also, with the comedic elements, I love to improv. I love to surprise people. So I also, as Galinda, kind of required that freedom to be able to do whatever felt most honest and Galinda in the moment. So the material demands it from both of us. Also, we are singers. We love to sing.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: We love to sing so much. And it would've felt dishonest to not sing live for this. And also, there's even more. You know, there are so many beautiful Galindas and Elphabas who have done this on Broadway in the West End on tour, eight shows a week. So in solidarity with them, if we have to do something 28 takes in a row live, we will do it.
MOSLEY: Oh, that's interesting, yeah, to think about it...
GRANDE: We're a part of a beautiful coven.
MOSLEY: Right.
GRANDE: And we had to do that with our sister witches. But also, really it just comes back to allowing the performances to be as honest as possible. If we are married to a track that's pre-recorded, there's less room for, like, honesty to pour out. And when you're emotional, your voice cracks. And you have things seep through that, you know, are beautiful in their own way.
MOSLEY: Yeah. Right.
GRANDE: So that was a really extraordinary gift. And Simon Hayes, our incredible head of sound, turned the set into a recording studio. I mean, everywhere you looked, there was a microphone - in Cynthia's hat, in both of my little peaks of my bubble dress, the pink bubble dress.
MOSLEY: Really? Yeah, yeah.
GRANDE: In the bubble itself and the wig and the thing, and everything. That required a lot of work to be able to protect the quality and make sure that we were covered from every angle, because if a gust of wind came or if - which there was so much wind and everything.
MOSLEY: Really?
GRANDE: And rain and flying and...
MOSLEY: Yeah, yeah, just all the elements...
GRANDE: Yes.
MOSLEY: ...That were part of the production.
GRANDE: Yes, and somehow, Simon was able to figure it out so that it was protected. And also, you can hear in the background...
MOSLEY: You're so excited.
(LAUGHTER)
GRANDE: I'm a nerd when it comes to this stuff. Can you tell?
MOSLEY: Yes. Yeah.
GRANDE: But when I was helping with the vocal production, which was really a cool part of this. And I was helping comp through the live takes of "Defying Gravity." And I called Cynthia on FaceTime because I was so excited with what - you could hear her little, when you solo the vocal for the second verse - (singing) I'm through accepting limits. You hear her little feet going up the stairs in the background when you solo the vocal. And I'm a nerd, so I love that.
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: You could hear the little stairs creaking and her shoes going up. And it was so cool.
MOSLEY: Yes. You're like a savant when it comes to sound, huh? Would you say that?
GRANDE: I think that's such a nice - that's such a generous way of putting it (laughter).
MOSLEY: Well, I think it's interesting.
GRANDE: That's so nice.
MOSLEY: You know, I have met a few people, but not a lot of people, who comment on all of the sound around it.
GRANDE: I do love sound.
MOSLEY: Not just the vocals.
GRANDE: I love sound. I love voices and different tones and different textures. And I think that's why when I was younger, I learned impersonations at a young age. Like, Judy Garland might've actually been my first with "The Wizard Of Oz" being on TV. I remember just sort of looking at her posture and also, like, her vibrato and her tone and finding that so interesting, noticing how voices can be so different at a young age.
MOSLEY: I'm just imagining a young, little Ariana in front of the television...
GRANDE: (Laughter)
MOSLEY: ...Looking at Judy Garland.
GRANDE: Yes.
MOSLEY: Was there a particular line of hers or any part of the film that comes to you that you used to impersonate?
GRANDE: Well, "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" was a big one.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: I loved "Somewhere Over The Rainbow." I used to wear my little gingham dress in front of the TV, but I used to do a weird thing where I would wear it with, like, a scary movie mask.
MOSLEY: Like the movie "Scary"?
GRANDE: "Scream." Like the movie "Scream."
MOSLEY: Like the movie "Scream." Yeah, the movie "Scream."
GRANDE: Or a Jason mask. I had that as well, the one with the little - the hockey thing. It was quite strange, but I needed to put my twist on it, you know?
MOSLEY: Yeah, what was that?
GRANDE: Oh, I don't know.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: I wish I could tell you. But it makes sense...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: Like, if, you know - I don't know. My mom loved Halloween, and we all loved Halloween (laughter).
MOSLEY: It all made sense back then.
GRANDE: Yes, it did.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: It's hard to put a finger on it now, but you feel like it helps set up with the visual.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
MOSLEY: When did you and Cynthia realize that you all were friends? I think that any of us who watched the press tour, we can see clearly the connection that you all have. But when did you understand that you were more than colleagues, that you all were friends, too?
GRANDE: Well, I think it's something that was important to us from the very beginning, was to build something real and to know that we could have a safe space in each other for this journey, because it was going to be tremendous. We knew it was going to be years and years of some of the hardest work of our lives. And it's something that we started building from the day we were cast. You know, we FaceTimed and congratulated each other. And the announcement happened, and the celebratory dinner happened, and, you know, I was a fan of hers. But it got very real very quickly. You know, I reached out, and I said, OK, as we're digging into the contracts, let's stay in touch. Let's call each other. Let's - I want to be there for you and help make sure you're getting everything you need. And I want us to go at everything together because there's going to be so much that is very high-stakes about this production that we're jumping into.
You know, this is 160-plus shoot days with however many months of rehearsal beforehand. This is a lot of time with these characters, with these women, but with each other and in this high-stakes environment. This project is so much bigger than us and than anything. And I want us to be able to give ourselves over to it in the healthiest way possible.
And I want you to know that I've got your back, whatever comes up. You don't - it's never going to be - it's always going to be us against the thing. I want it to always be us against whatever arises, if anything. So that was a really beautiful, open and beautiful conversation that we had together, and we shared any sort of little concerns and things that were important to us, and...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: ...That sent a loud message, I think, that, like, we are safe here, and it just kept building and growing from there.
MOSLEY: I think that's tremendous. I...
GRANDE: Thank you.
MOSLEY: I also can't help but think about the characters that you play. It's female friendship. It's empowerment, and you all are two complex women at the forefront of this story. And I really can't help but go back to think about Judy Garland and her experience in filming "The Wizard Of Oz." She had a very different experience. Of course, it was a very different time period. Can you talk a little bit more about your intuitive understanding that you all would both need each other in this process not only in just the filming of this and the grueling nature of filming it, but also...
GRANDE: In life.
MOSLEY: ...In life? Right.
GRANDE: In life - I just think it was so profoundly important to us both to take care of each other in this high-stakes, beautiful, dream-come-true project, and then also to have gained that friendship in real life is truly a gift, you know? You hear that there are other ways it can go.
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: And we had to protect this from every angle we could, you know?
MOSLEY: I don't want to over speak, but did you ever feel like people thought of you as a pop star and maybe not hefty enough to take on a role like this? As a...
GRANDE: Oh, totally.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: Oh, absolutely, and then some. I felt like I had everything working against me for - when - you know, with - when it comes to this role. I didn't think I - you know, I genuinely felt like I had so much to prove so that I could earn the possibility, like, earn the openness from Jon, from the casting directors, from the producers, to maybe see a possible chance that I could disappear into this person.
I thought, oh, my goodness, I know what's required of Galinda. I know she's funny, I know it's high notes, and I know that maybe some people who don't know this - her well enough would think that I'm the perfect fit, but that's just kind of scratching the surface. And I have to kind of be able to earn this and have every tool in my box available to me to use so that every piece of her that is emotional, that is dramatized, that is insecure, that is why Galinda is the way she is - you know, so reliant upon external validation and the popularity and how important that is to her. And, you know, that's a real person under there with a real beating heart.
And where she goes from Part 1, her arc in Act 2 and what she experiences and - you know, it requires a lot, this role. And I thought that I would really have a lot to prove. That's why I took the audition process so seriously because I knew I wanted to do the work so desperately to earn a chance.
MOSLEY: How do you push away self-doubt?
GRANDE: I think you kind of have to - this is something that my acting coach Nancy Banks and I talked about so much. She is one of the most goodly, good witches on this Earth, I have to say. But, you know, it's just befriending those monsters in a way. You kind of look at them and say, hey...
MOSLEY: The monsters meaning...
GRANDE: The...
MOSLEY: ...Self doubt and those feelings.
GRANDE: Yeah, self-doubt or fear...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: ...Or whatever it is or nerves or whatever - and you have to kind of realize, nerves are great. It means you care so much and that your ego can be left far, far behind in a faraway land so that you can do beautiful work and so that you know you care. You're acknowledging this and using those nerves as positive carbonation for the performance and also being able to put a little flashlight on your little fears or monsters in your head and say, like, hi, thank you for protecting me.
They're totally valid, your fears of, you know, the ways in which this might - you know, could possibly whatever. Thank you for caring the way that you do. However, I have work to do. It would be beautiful if you could please step outside and get me a coffee. Maybe come back later...
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
GRANDE: ...You know?
MOSLEY: It's that - yeah.
GRANDE: You're totally going to come back later.
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: I know that.
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: So thank you for stepping away for a little...
MOSLEY: Right.
GRANDE: ...'Cause I have to get to know Galinda for now, and I have to do this work. I have to give myself over to this person for a little bit. And then I'll get to know her monsters in the meantime so that she can have real monsters in her head, and those can be present. And it's just kind of learning how to do that dance. It's a - it's all a mental dance. So it's important to learn how to navigate those guys and be able to embrace and also keep them where they're supposed to be.
MOSLEY: Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is Oscar-nominated actress and performer Ariana Grande. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. Today, I'm talking to Oscar-nominated actress and performer Ariana Grande. She stars in the musical "Wicked" as Galinda, alongside Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba. The two develop a friendship while students at Shiz University years before Dorothy's arrival in Oz from Kansas. The film also charts the transformations of Elphaba into the Wicked Witch of the West and Galinda into Glinda the Good. In addition to acting, Grande is a Grammy award-winning singer with seven studio albums to her credit.
You arrived in LA at 14 years old?
GRANDE: Yes.
MOSLEY: Yeah. From Florida 'cause that's where you were...
GRANDE: Yes.
GRANDE: ...Raised.
GRANDE: I was born and raised in Florida, and then I moved to New York to do "13," the musical on Broadway, written by Jason Robert Brown and Robert Horn. And I was in that show for quite some time. I did the reading, and then I did the out-of-town run in Connecticut, the Goodspeed Theater, and then came to Broadway with the show and then after that went to LA for my callback for "Victorious," and then I've been kind of an LA, New York person ever since then.
MOSLEY: Yeah. And "Victorious," just to let folks know - that's a Nickelodeon show. There are lots of parents who listen to this show who are like, oh, yeah, I know "Victorious," yes, for sure.
GRANDE: I'm very sorry for the ways in which my voice has probably ricocheted off the walls in your house.
MOSLEY: As well as "Sam & Cat," yes...
GRANDE: Yes.
MOSLEY: ...Including my home. But do you remember who you were back then when you were telling folks, I want to sing, and I want to do soulful music, right?
GRANDE: Yes.
MOSLEY: I want to do R&B music.
GRANDE: Yes.
MOSLEY: Take us to that decision.
GRANDE: Yes, so I was sort of navigating both at the same time because I loved comedy. I loved acting, but I also loved music. And so, towards the very beginning of "Victorious," I was writing songs that could be used for the character on the show because it was a musical show, so we sang a little bit on the show. And that just sort of transformed at some point into, I want to make a solo album. And I started realizing that I could be myself in the music and, like, dyeing my hair brown on the weekends and then (laughter), like...
MOSLEY: You dyeing your hair brown?
GRANDE: No, no, no. Like, temporarily spraying it...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: ...Like, crazy things I was doing to be able to sort of jump back and forth between, like, being an artist and being me, and you know, doing little cover videos and little performances here and there, and it was a slow but steady start. But I was doing both at the same time, so I would be filming the show and then going to the studio in the evenings. And I worked on my first album for three years while I was simultaneously shooting the show, and then it kind of happened, I guess.
MOSLEY: Yeah. What was it about R&B music in those early days that really spoke to your...
GRANDE: The voices.
MOSLEY: ...Spoke to you? Yeah.
GRANDE: The singing - I love, I love, I love, I love singers. I remember loving pop music, too. I do love pop music. But there was just something about Whitney and Mariah and Aretha and just sort of, like, these gorgeous, R&B, soulful, powerhouse vocals just being my favorite. And I was super inspired by Whitney and Mariah. And also, that was kind of where I felt like there was this crossover with musical theater because there are so many big voices in musical theater, too, you know? My favorite songs to sing when I was younger, growing up were, like, the most vocal ones I could find...
MOSLEY: Yeah, like the ballads.
GRANDE: ...You know? Yes, yes, or, like, "Here I Am" from "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" or "Gimme Gimme" from "Thoroughly Modern Millie" and - or Whitney and Mariah. You know, those were my favorite songs to sing growing up. And I just remember being so inspired by divas.
MOSLEY: Yeah. You know, there's a dichotomy in your persona because some of your music is sweet. Some of it is soulful. And some of it, Ariana, is pretty raunchy (laughter).
GRANDE: Yeah.
MOSLEY: Like, I mean, I was listening...
GRANDE: (Laughter).
MOSLEY: ...To "34+35"...
GRANDE: Oh, God.
MOSLEY: ...And I was like, oh, my gosh, can I blush?
GRANDE: This...
MOSLEY: If I could, I think I am.
GRANDE: That is hilarious. It started as a - I mean, it started and ended as a total joke, just because...
MOSLEY: The song, "34+35"?
GRANDE: Yes because I just found the strings so lush and so majestic and, like, Disney princess-sounding. I fell in love with those strings, and that was, like, what I knew I wanted to write over. But I just thought how funny would it be? I love when comedy can exist within - like, a sense of humor can exist within songwriting, too. That's important to me. But I thought it would be so funny if maybe the dirtiest song we ever wrote would be over these, like, Disney princess-sounding...
MOSLEY: (Laughter) Yeah.
GRANDE: ...Sounding like lush strings - how fun would that be?
MOSLEY: You kind of sit in a very rare space. That song - OK, it's really interesting to know that it was kind of a joke.
GRANDE: (Laughter).
MOSLEY: But when you do sit in that space, it's very Meg Thee Stallion, Lil' Kim. Like, it's a nod back to that type of lyricism, which some feel like is a feminist cry, you know? Like, it's ownership of one's body...
GRANDE: Absolutely.
MOSLEY: ...And one's persona. OK, is that how - that's how you see it?
GRANDE: Oh, I - of course. I think it's always so beautiful when female artists celebrate and embrace sexual expression or their bodies or themselves, their truths or whatever, through music, even when it is naughty sometimes. You know, I think it's a beautiful thing. And even when it's done with humor or not, you know, boys do it.
MOSLEY: They do.
GRANDE: Yeah, so why can't we?
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: So many brilliant women are writing such spectacular music right now. It's such an amazing time for women in music. I feel like there are so many beautiful, new, young, up-and-coming artists that I've loved listening to this year. Like, I - it's been just a cool thing to watch. I love it.
MOSLEY: We talked a little bit about your talent for impersonations, from Shakira to Celine Dion. And I was wondering when did you know you had that talent to do impersonations? You mentioned Judy Garland and you - but when you knew, like, oh, no, I actually have this skill to impersonate others.
GRANDE: Oh. I don't - I mean, I think my parents probably pointed it out to me. I was a big fan of, like, all of the Christopher Guest movies. So...
MOSLEY: Yes.
GRANDE: ...I was doing Jennifer Coolidge and Eugene Levy, and I also am such a big fan of Jim Carrey, so I was doing a lot of his sort of facial expressions and stuff when I was very young. I don't know. It was always just kind of something I loved because I loved making people laugh, and that always worked.
MOSLEY: Do you have a favorite impersonation?
GRANDE: I don't know. I love doing Jennifer. Jennifer...
MOSLEY: Coolidge.
GRANDE: ...Coolidge, yes. I love doing Jennifer. I love - I also like doing, like, my friends and people in my...
MOSLEY: Oh, my God.
GRANDE: My best friend, Aaron, has a very specific speaking voice. And I don't know, just - it's fun.
MOSLEY: Yeah. You know what I want to ask you.
(LAUGHTER)
GRANDE: Wait, what are you going to ask me? I'm scared.
MOSLEY: No, I want to ask you if you'd do one for us.
GRANDE: Oh, my gosh.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: Oh, my gosh. I would - I don't know. What would you (laughter) - which one? I don't know.
MOSLEY: Well, I think Jennifer Coolidge is one that...
GRANDE: This is my new party trick. I'm being asked this a lot recently (laughter).
MOSLEY: I know. Oh, they are? People are asking you this?
GRANDE: Yes (laughter).
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: (Impersonating Jennifer Coolidge) You're going to make me do it, aren't you?
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
GRANDE: (Impersonating Jennifer Coolidge) Why do I have to do it again? I don't want to do it. I'm tired.
I'm kidding.
MOSLEY: Yes (laughter). Our guest today is Oscar-nominated actress and performer Ariana Grande. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF THE WICKED ORCHESTRA AND WICKED MOVIE CAST SONG, "THE WIZARD AND I")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. And today, I'm talking to actress and performer Ariana Grande. She's been nominated for an Academy Award for best supporting actress for her role as Galinda in the movie musical "Wicked."
One of the things about a movie like "Wicked" - I mentioned right off the top that it's a cultural phenomenon - is that it has now become for young people, like, the same thing that the Broadway play was for you at a young age, but in a more accessible way because it's a movie. So kids of all walks of life who won't ever be able to see a theater production can now be a part of this in a real way. You've had firsthand experiences with people who shared with you how much this movie means to them. Can you share some of that with me?
GRANDE: I mean, it's an incredible privilege to be a part of this version of it and to have it be so accessible to so many people and to see the response be what it's been. I think so many new theater kids have been born, you know? And that's such a beautiful gift because it's such an extraordinary community and a beautiful community to grow up in. It's a safe place. You feel less alone when you find a fellow theater kid, when you find someone who loves the same musicals as you. So it's really moving and really special 'cause I remember what it was for me. The soundtrack, over the course of my life, has been such a safe haven. Even when I was warming up to go on stage on opening night of one of my tours or whatever it was, like, I was warming up listening to "Wicked." I was getting ready listening to "Wicked." So it was always with me, and now it's so beautiful to know that it'll be with so many other new or returning theater kids.
MOSLEY: Can you talk a little bit about why it's a safe haven? - because, you know, growing up, I always would see the theater kids, and I would feel a little bit of envy because I...
GRANDE: (Laughter).
MOSLEY: ...Felt like they have something special going on there, you know?
GRANDE: (Laughter) You're like, those nerds.
MOSLEY: But not in a nerdy...
GRANDE: (Laughter).
MOSLEY: Yes, those nerds, but also, like, there was something that they were tapping into...
GRANDE: Right.
MOSLEY: ...With each other that...
GRANDE: I don't know.
MOSLEY: ...Kind of was a barrier to the world.
GRANDE: Right.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: Like we're on our own planet.
MOSLEY: Right.
GRANDE: We are aliens.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: We are the best kind of nerd, by the way. But no, I mean, it's really kind of hard to articulate because it's just a connection that is felt instantly when you hear that right song or see that right film or whatever it is that is a musical, and it flips a switch. And some of us are so lucky to have it and to find each other through having it.
MOSLEY: So many kids have said it's also saved their lives.
GRANDE: Yeah.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GRANDE: That's such an emotional, moving thing when music and art can do that.
MOSLEY: Ariana Grande, thank you so much for this conversation. It's been such a pleasure to meet you...
GRANDE: Thank you, Tonya.
MOSLEY: ...And congratulations on your Oscar nomination.
GRANDE: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
MOSLEY: Ariana Grande has been nominated for her role in the movie musical "Wicked." The film has received 10 Oscar nominations. It's now available on demand and can still be found in theaters.
Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, one of Pete Hegseth's first actions as defense secretary was to declare the end of the DEI era. A serious problem, though, is that the military is facing a severe shortage of recruits. We'll talk about why, how the military is attempting to reverse the trend and how vulnerable to attack we've become with Dexter Filkins of The New Yorker. I hope you can join us. To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram @nprfreshair.
FRESH AIR's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our managing producer is Sam Briger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nyakundi, Anna Bauman and Joel Wolfram. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. With Terry Gross, I'm Tonya Mosley.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ONE SHORT DAY")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTORS #3: (As characters, singing) One short day in the Emerald City. One short day full of so much to do. Every way that you look in this city, there's something exquisite you'll want to visit before the day's through.
Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.