Other segments from the episode on May 13, 2025
Transcript
TERRY GROSS, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.
My guest, Ramy Youssef, started as a stand-up comic. Then he created and starred in a semi-autobiographical comedy drama series called "Ramy," about a 20-something Egyptian American Muslim trying to make sense of how his life, including his sex life, fit with his commitment to Islam. The series won a Peabody Award, and he won a Golden Globe for his performance. Youssef co-created the comedy drama series "Mo," starring his friend Mo Amer as an undocumented Palestinian American. Last year, Youssef hosted "Saturday Night Live" and had an HBO comedy special called "More Feelings."
His acting career is taking off. He stars with Steve Carell and Jason Schwartzman in the new HBO movie "Mountainhead," which debuts May 31. It was written and directed by Jesse Armstrong, the creator of HBO's "Succession." In 2023, Youssef co-starred in the film "Poor Things," which won a Golden Globe for best motion picture - musical or comedy - and was nominated for an Oscar for best picture.
Ramy Youssef has a new animated series set just before and after 9/11. It's about an extended family of Egyptian Americans in New Jersey. The parents and grandparents are immigrants. The children were born in America. Each of them is trying to figure out how to respond to the Islamophobia that's resulted from the terrorist attack on 9/11. Ramy Youssef was 11 years old and in fifth grade on 9/11. That's about the same age as the boy in the series. The series is called "#1 Happy Family USA," and that's streaming on Amazon Prime.
In the father's attempt to prevent people from noticing they're an immigrant family and Muslim, he does his best to blend in by doing his best to construct the image of a happy, average American family. But because he doesn't quite understand American culture, just about everything he does to fit in is wrong, which only makes him stand out even more. The mother wants to stand up and defend Islam. This is a scene from the first episode, which takes place on 9/11, when the father and mother clash over how to respond. Ramy Youssef does the voices of the father and the son. Salma Hindy voices the mother.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "#1 HAPPY FAMILY USA")
RAMY YOUSSEF: (As Hussein Hussein) Busarumi (ph), a lot happened today. Many people got hurt. This is the worst thing I have ever seen. Things are going to change for us. People are going to look at us differently just because of who we are. And what we must do now more than ever is...
SALMA HINDY: (As Sharia Hussein) ...Find our faith and be strong.
YOUSSEF: (As Hussein Hussein) No, we must blend in and change our values as much as possible. We will change everything about who we are to fit in. We must always be cheerful. We will never stick out. We, from today, have no culture. When people see our family, they won't think Arab. They will think they are happy. They are perfect. We are "#1 Happy Family USA."
GROSS: Ramy Youssef, welcome to FRESH AIR. It's such a pleasure to have you back on the show. That scene is so funny. I love it when the father says, from now on, we have no culture.
(LAUGHTER)
YOUSSEF: It's really great to be back after many years. I really appreciate it. And yeah, you know, it was this idea of really tapping into how - you know, it's almost kind of - it is really funny, and it's so cool that it gets to be funny. But it's - obviously, there's the other part of it that's really sad, which is, hey, maybe if I try to erase as much of myself, I'll be able to fit in. And I think that's the idea that I'm obsessed with. You know, there's obviously all the conversations about overt racism, Islamophobia, all these things on the outside. The parts that I always tend to hone in on is, well, what is the person doing to themselves amidst all that pressure?
GROSS: What were the discussions like in your family living in New Jersey after 9/11? Were there conversations in your family about whether to stand up and defend diversity and defend Islam, or whether to just, like you said, erase part of themselves?
YOUSSEF: Yeah. I mean, I don't know that it was exactly hit the erase button, but it really was, OK - you know, 'cause it's such a sad, terrible thing, and we were just near, you know, the site of death of so many people who - you know, innocent people. So there's that piece where you're just as sad as everyone else, but then it turns towards you and who you are. And so you kind of go, OK, we should be quiet or something. It's incredibly confusing. It's incredibly disorienting. And I think within my family, we were always proud of who we were and where we come from. And at the same time, you kind of don't want to rock the boat. And I think my father was very pragmatic about it all, and I remember him kind of being like, you know, my family is really well read. They really, you know - I grew up with books all over the house, and my dad was just like, yeah, Japanese people went through a lot after Pearl Harbor happened. He was already kind of saying - almost there was this feeling of this might be our turn right now. And, you know, that was at the time. And then now it's kind of like, so when does the turn end, exactly, you know?
GROSS: (Laughter) Yeah.
YOUSSEF: What's going on?
GROSS: Yeah.
YOUSSEF: You know?
GROSS: Yeah.
YOUSSEF: Yeah.
GROSS: Did you code-switch a lot when you were 11 after 9/11, like the cartoon version of the son does? Part of the code-switching is not just the way he talks, it's also, like, what he wears to try to look like all-American.
YOUSSEF: Yeah, I mean, I grew up in New Jersey, and it was - there was this, like, burgeoning emo rock scene, and I was so jealous of my friends who had the straight hair and wore the tight pants, and I had this curly 'fro, and I tried to hide it with a hat. I was always wearing hats, and, you know, even in my older age, it's, like, such a holdover from being a kid and trying to just stuff it under a hat. But, you know, the beauty of this series for me has been that I think everyone code-switches, you know, and I think we leaned into this animated style where the family literally looks different when they're inside the house and when they're outside the house. And I think to an extent, everybody does that, you know? And what becomes, you know, the larger pressure cooker is that there is this performance that this family is literally doing for the FBI agent who moves in across the street. But at that core underneath all of it, I think this is what everybody does, and I think it's certainly what kids do. And so in so many ways, it really feels like this quintessential just middle school experience, but you add onto it, you know, the creation of Homeland Security.
GROSS: Oh, right. A good reason to be paranoid. Like, you have every reason to feel like you're sticking out, you're not fitting in. And maybe that means prison.
YOUSSEF: It's - yeah, it's very much - OK, is Courtney the popular girl talking about me behind my back, and are the phones tapped?
GROSS: Yeah (laughter).
YOUSSEF: You know, and usually people just have to deal with the Courtney part. And now this kid has both of them, and that's where the series lives.
GROSS: You do the voice of both the father and the son, and their voices are very different. Do you want to demonstrate both voices for us?
YOUSSEF: (Laughter) Well, you know what it was? It was my sister, Reem, she was a producer on the animated show with me, and she had pulled up all these videos when I was a kid 'cause I was struggling really finding these voices. I've never done this kind of acting before. And when I was a kid, I used to make these videos, and I'd do them sometimes when my parents were sleeping. And so I'd kind of, like, (Impersonating Rumi Hussein) whisper, and I'd kind of be raspy. You know, and I'd be in that place. And so I just copied what I actually sounded like as a kid there. And then I was trying to find the complete opposite and go really deep into my stomach and find the anxiety (impersonating Hussein Hussein) and find it in the bottom of the throat. You know? And then that became the dad.
GROSS: The father, in some ways, is kind of like Homer Simpson, you know, in kind of, like, being, like, getting everything wrong, misconstruing things. I - you know, if I remember correctly, he hangs up like - to fit in and look so American, he hangs up, like, Christmas ornaments in the summer, and he keeps using the word, like, Jesus Christ totally inappropriately.
YOUSSEF: Yes.
GROSS: But anyways, do you see a connection between him and Homer Simpson?
YOUSSEF: Totally. I mean, I think there's this father who, you know, I think in both cases, being the head of the household in the ways that they think they are and the ways that they totally aren't. And they end up banging their head every direction that they move. The father in this show, Hussein Hussein is his name. His anxiety takes him over in this way that is almost vulnerable. And it's certainly very vulnerable because he does these musical numbers throughout the show that kind of tap into what's really going on with him. And he kind of became the star of the show. I went, oh, yeah, wow. I mean, he's the one that is most split by this and is probably furthest into this idea of a code switch kind of splitting you right down the middle.
GROSS: How did your father feel about the character of the father? Because people always assume, oh, well, that's how the father is in the series.
YOUSSEF: (Laughter).
GROSS: So his real father, you know, Ramy Youssef's father, must be like that. But your father sounds like the opposite.
YOUSSEF: My father is really cool. I mean, I think part of my - and my mother is so cool. I mean, I'm really lucky. I mean, I feel part of why I've been able to explore these feelings in my work artistically is that they gave us the space as parents to, you know, understand our feelings. And so it's not like these elements didn't exist in our communities and in our families. And so this kind of constant fear and paranoia is actually not exaggerated. I would just say that my family saw it. Even if they were experiencing it, they were actually able to see, well, maybe we should turn the volume down.
And then I think the fun thing with making something, especially a cartoon, is you never have to turn the volume down because it's a cartoon. And so I think that my parents, when they watch my work, I kind of painstakingly go through making sure that a lot of details are different enough. And we also write these, you know, shows in writers' rooms where we're drawing from other writers and their families and kind of what they went through. So I think my parents, they're pretty good about kind of going, eh, who cares, you know? Especially at this point, too, my dad's really funny about this stuff. He just is like, eh, I'm 70 years old, like, who cares?
GROSS: So there's briefly a grandfather in the series, and he is very sexist. Like, he is the man, and he has control, especially control over his wife. He's grumpy. He orders people around. And at one point, he says, I sacrificed everything for this family. Most men of my generation hit, and he's referring to hitting women. And he says, I only yell. I didn't even take a second wife. So did you have a grandfather who was like that, and if so, how did you deal with it? Like, did you say anything?
YOUSSEF: My grandparents never lived with us. I mean, this is trying to kind of create something that's more emblematic of that generational thing than my actual grandfather, who was quite different and was also - you know, my grandfather is really interesting because he grew up in a village. He was one of two people who could read. And then he took that and became one of the only ones there, again, who went to college and then actually became an interpreter for the United Nations. He interpreted between Arabic and French and English for, you know, over 20 years. So he's kind of this totally different mold, I think, of that gen because he was such a...
GROSS: Can I just stop you for a second?
YOUSSEF: Yeah.
GROSS: That's amazing. He was one of two people in his village who could read and became a U.N. translator?
YOUSSEF: It is so much more impressive. Sometimes people say to me, oh, dude, you were just, like, a kid in New Jersey, and now you have this whole Hollywood thing. And I go, man, in terms of arcs within my family (laughter), that's not really - it's like, yeah, I should have. Of course I have to. Look at what came before me. I mean, he set the bar.
GROSS: At this point, we should take a short break. So if you're just joining us, my guest is Ramy Youssef. And in addition to the series "#1 Happy Family," there are three seasons that he did of his semi-autobiographical series "Ramy." And starting May 31, you can see him in a new HBO movie called "Mountainhead," which was written and directed by Jesse Armstrong, who also created HBO's "Succession." We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF NONAME SONG, "BALLOONS")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with comic, actor and director Ramy Youssef. He created and starred in the semi-autobiographical comedy drama series "Ramy," which is streaming on Hulu. He's one of the stars of the new film "Mountainhead," which was written and directed by Jesse Armstrong, the creator of HBO's "Succession." It debuts May 31. And he created the new animated series "#1 Happy Family USA" about an Egyptian American Muslim family in New Jersey trying to blend in after the 9/11 attacks. And Ramy Youssef does the voices of the father and the 11-year-old - or 12-year-old son.
So you write and sing songs for the series. And I want to play one that's - I think you can describe it as the theme song, and it ends the first episode of "#1 Happy Family USA." So let's hear it, and then we'll talk about writing songs. So this is in the voice of the father.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "#1 HAPPY FAMILY USA")
YOUSSEF: (As Hussein Hussein, singing) Hello, hello, neighbors. You're afraid of us near you. But the only blood we want is to bleed red, white and blue. I know you think we're scary, but I swear we are fun. We will prove to you our love. We will be No. 1, No. 1 family in USA. "#1 Happy Family USA." Please, don't shoot. Take the boy.
GROSS: (Laughter) So what made you think you should turn part of this into a musical?
YOUSSEF: (Laughter) So, yeah, that song comes out of the earlier clip that you played where he kind of proclaims, out of peak anxiety to his family, that they're going to erase their identity. And then he bursts the door open and starts singing this proclamation to the neighborhood and forces his family to come out and dance with him on the front lawn. And then the song, as you can kind of hear there, ends with the police swarming the house, a helicopter, and then Hussein sacrificing his son to the authorities, you know, hoping that that will appease them (laughter). And, you know, I felt this - it's either going to be we're making something depressing or something so insane that you have to laugh at this depressing subtext. And so it had to be the latter, and that's where music just started to feel like such a fun extension.
GROSS: Have you ever been in a band?
YOUSSEF: In high school, I was in a band and played backup guitar, backup vocals and always fiddled around with, you know, guitars. And then I kind of had put them - I put the music thing down as I kind of went into comedy and performing and all of that. And then we were doing these voices at a sound studio that had all these instruments. And I probably picked up the guitar for the first time after many, many years and started singing these songs as the dad and had so much fun, and then we ended up baking it into the show.
GROSS: In your band, did you do covers or original?
YOUSSEF: It was originals. And if you go back and listen to the originals, you'd probably encourage us to do covers.
GROSS: (Laughter) Well, in addition to, like, the "#1 Happy Family" song that we just heard, you write some dark songs, and I want to play a dark song. This is a father singing. One of the lines he sings is sometimes the darkness comes for me. This is his, like, deep internal feelings, not the facade he's trying to put on. So let's hear that. Do you want to say anything about it before we hear it?
YOUSSEF: This comes at the end of an episode where we've seen him probably be his most performative. And then he has this moment when everyone's asleep, and he goes out into the driveway and sits by his halal cart. He's a halal cart vendor in the city, and it's always parked in the driveway. And I love that image because it sticks out in this suburb that they can barely afford. And he sits at it, starts playing guitar, and at a certain point, there's, like, a piano line in which he hits the area of the cart where the sodas are stored, and it opens up into a keyboard, and there's a piano that comes out of the cart. And so he's singing this thing that sounds sad and - but at the same time visually is, I think, quite funny.
GROSS: And it's the kind of thing you can only do in animation.
YOUSSEF: Yes.
GROSS: Yeah. OK, let's hear.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "#1 HAPPY FAMILY USA")
YOUSSEF: (As character, singing) I think I'm scared, but I'm sitting with my family, got to show them that I'm brave. Sometimes I'm quiet, but I think it's just because I might scream. I've got to be Mr. tough guy. I'm the dad. But sometimes, oh, oh, the darkness comes for me, and I don't know what to do. Yeah, the darkness, oh, it comes for you, too. And what do you do? I think I'm going to fight for the light. Yeah. I think I'm going to fight for the light. I think I'm going to fight for the light. Baby, I'm fighting the fight.
GROSS: Do I detect a very slight Lou Reed influence in that?
(LAUGHTER)
YOUSSEF: Somebody called it Kabob Dylan. Somebody else...
GROSS: (Laughter).
YOUSSEF: ...Was like, wait, dude, this is, like, war on drugs. This is, like, some sort of, like, Arab Jeff Buckley thing. Yeah, he's - it's totally this, like, folk thing that is so fun to do as this character 'cause it kind of sneaks up on you. And he - again, he's so crazy the whole episode, and then all of a sudden, you go, oh, my God, this guy's so tender, and there's this tenderness in him. And that is the experience of so many of the men that I know where you go, oh, man, this dude is, like, kind of intense, and then you get him alone, and you go, wait, is this the most emotional person on Earth (laughter)?
GROSS: Yeah. OK. And I want to point out, again, that that was my guest, Ramy Youssef, singing on that song. Is that your guitar also?
YOUSSEF: It is.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: Good for you. And that was an excerpt from Ramy Youssef's new animated series, "#1 Happy Family USA." Well, let's take a short break here, and then there's plenty more to talk about. If you're just joining us, my guest is Ramy Youssef. His new animated series is called "#1 Happy Family USA." And also, he co-stars in the new movie "Mountainhead," which debuts on HBO and Max May 31. And it was written and directed by Jesse Armstrong, who created "Succession." We'll be right back. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with comic, actor, writer and director Ramy Youssef. He created and starred in the semi-autobiographical series "Ramy" about a 20-something Egyptian American Muslim trying to figure out how to make his life, including his sex life, fit with his commitment to Islam. Now he has a new animated series called "#1 Happy Family USA" about an Egyptian American Muslim family just after 9/11 trying to figure out how to avoid being treated with suspicion during the rise of Islamophobia. Youssef does the voices of the father and the 11-year-old son. He also costars with Steve Carell and Jason Schwartzman in the new HBO film "Mountainhead," which was written and directed by Jesse Armstrong, the creator and showrunner of HBO's "Succession." The movie debuts May 31. And he costarred in the movie "Poor Things."
You started out in college studying political science and, I think, economics as well. I'm not sure where that came from, considering where you've ended up, but how did you go from that to comedy?
YOUSSEF: I was very bad at school, and so, you know, I ended up leaving. I was always, in high school - really middle school and high school, I was fascinated with cameras. And I was always making things. And then in the back of my head I said, this is what I love doing the most, but there's no way I'm going to be able to actually live doing this. And I didn't see a path to it being a career because I didn't know anyone who had ever done that. So I just thought I had to go to school and become a lawyer, you know, because that was kind of the only thing I could imagine myself doing. Even if I had no real connection to, like, the law, I just said, well, I know how to talk. And it seems like those guys talk, and then they're able to feed their families by talking. So that was kind of all I could see. And then...
GROSS: (Laughter)Nothing to it.
YOUSSEF: (Laughter)You know, there's some books you got to read in the middle. And then this comedy thing comes up, and you go, oh, well, you could talk here, too - and this is way more in line with what I love about art and filmmaking. And so, yeah, it just became inevitable at a certain point.
GROSS: It seems to me that the stand-up comedy world is so different than what the life of a faithful Muslim would look like. Because, you know, I don't know what circles you traveled in, but you think of stand-up comics, first of all, of, you know, just being on the road all the time and having, like, really bad eating habits and drinking a lot. So were there parts of your life, especially early on, when you had to - you probably had less control of your life early on when you started in stand-up. Even things like - is it five times a day?
YOUSSEF: Yeah.
GROSS: Yeah, praying five times a day. Like, as a young comic on the road...
YOUSSEF: Yeah.
GROSS: ...I'm sure that there were some very inopportune times that you wanted to pray, and you were on, like, a bus or a plane or doing a set.
YOUSSEF: Yeah (laughter).
GROSS: How do you manage that? Like, do you have to make certain compromises?
YOUSSEF: Well, this is the great thing. There's so many great features that are built in, Terry. I used to do traveler's prayers, or you can combine. I mean, it's amazing.
GROSS: Oh, there's traveler's prayers?
YOUSSEF: (Laughter) Oh, yeah.
GROSS: Are there special prayers? Oh.
YOUSSEF: You can combo. You can combo and shorten. But I think the thing you're talking about, though, in terms of, like, fitting it in in certain places, this is where I actually think an artistic lifestyle is so interesting. So my father, you know, worked managing hotels, always on his feet, always dealing with people. Hey, where do I pray, like, the broom closet? You know, there's that.
GROSS: (Laughter).
YOUSSEF: And it's just like, where is that going to happen? And then, you know, when you're an artist, it's like everyone assumes you're going to be 20 minutes late. You know, there's this whole other, you know, kind of way. And I always think, you know, I'm surrounded by spiritual people, you know, whether they are, you know, part of any sort of practicing thing or not, because Hollywood is basically, hey, I have this 130-page, you know, thing. And I know you don't see it yet, but I see it. I believe in the unseen of these words on this page (laughter). Come with me, and let's all believe in it together and make it, right? It's such a spiritual place. You know, everyone is tapping into, you know, the unseen.
GROSS: Do you have prayer breaks for everybody who wants it on your sets?
YOUSSEF: We do. Yeah, it's on our call sheet.
GROSS: Now, you mentioned that your father worked at a hotel, and it was The Plaza, and I think it was at the time that Trump...
YOUSSEF: Yeah.
GROSS: ...Trump owned it, right?
YOUSSEF: Yeah.
GROSS: Yeah. And the first time you were on our show, you told us that there was a photo in your home of Trump and your father, since your father worked in Trump's Plaza Hotel. And you thought of him as, like, Uncle Donald Trump because anybody who was with your father on the wall like that, that was like an uncle.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: And I'm wondering - this is a strange question. But Trump seems so obsessed now with immigrants crossing the border from the south - right? - from, like, south of the U.S.-Mexican border. Has that, like, eased up the Islamophobia because the lens is now on, you know, like, Venezuela and El Salvador?
YOUSSEF: Well, I mean, first of all, it's always kind of baffling just because I have firsthand experience that any of the business acumen that he relies on was built up by immigrants. I mean, I think, on one hand, people go, his father gave him a huge check, but on the other hand, it's whatever did punch through was these are businesses built on immigrants, especially the hotel business in New York. So that's always crazy. And then I think in terms of, you know, - it almost goes back to what we were talking about earlier of whose turn is it in this country. And right now, everyone's having a lot of turns. So on one hand, he's looking at the south immigration border stuff. But then I also think that the censorship around the conversation with Palestine and the way that he's really legislating...
GROSS: Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah.
YOUSSEF: ...You know, globally Islamophobically is incredibly heightened and frightening. And it's almost like he's taking it to new levels. I mean, he's posting the craziest things about just leveling out an entire, you know, culture. So, you know, yeah, he's giving everyone a go.
GROSS: Was it Trump who promoted your father? Or was it somebody...
YOUSSEF: It was somebody else. But, you know, my father's relationship with his family was always - my father's always categorized it as incredibly positive.
GROSS: With Trump's family?
YOUSSEF: Yeah.
GROSS: How did your father feel after he became president? I don't know if you want to speak on your father's behalf.
YOUSSEF: I don't know. You know how, like, there's all these conversations where people go, oh, man, that Republican senator is out there bashing gay people, and we all know he's gay. And it's like, oh, man, Trump's out there, and he's just bashing immigrants. And we know he really likes them and works with them, and they helped him with everything. And so it's like you're just watching something that defies the experience that you've had.
GROSS: Well, let me reintroduce you again. If you're just joining us, my guest is Ramy Youssef. His new animated series is called "#1 Happy Family USA.". He's one of the stars of the new movie "Mountainhead," which premieres on HBO May 31. And he had a semi-autobiographical series called "Ramy" that is still streaming on Hulu. We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with comic, actor and director Ramy Youssef. He created and starred in the semi autobiographical comedy drama series "Ramy," which is streaming on Hulu. He's one of the stars of the new film "Mountainhead," which was written and directed by Jesse Armstrong, the creator of HBO's "Succession." It debuts May 31. And he created the new animated series "#1 Happy Family USA," about an Egyptian American Muslim family in New Jersey, trying to blend in after the 9/11 attacks, and that's streaming on Amazon Prime. I want to play another clip, and this is from your 2024 special "More Feelings," a sequel to your earlier special, "Feelings." And this is about getting a call after the Israelis were taken as hostages by Hamas. So let's hear that clip.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
YOUSSEF: October 10, I get a call from a guy I know. He goes, yo, bro? Where are you at with Hamas? Where am I at? Like, am I a member? You think any of us like what happened on October 7? It's awful. We hate seeing people die. It's inhumane. It made me cry, and it always does. It's why we've been talking about Palestine our whole lives. We hate what's happening there. We want justice. We want peace. And we do.
(CHEERING)
YOUSSEF: So of course I don't like it. Now I got to prove to you that I'm not violent? Like, you think that's what's in my heart? You know me. You think, like, I'm, like - like, bro, I'm a Taliban guy. Like, that's...
(LAUGHTER)
YOUSSEF: That's a real group. That's - they've been going for 20 years. You know what I'm saying? Like, they're strong.
GROSS: I just thought that was a really nice mix of, like, speaking from the heart and being really funny. And it's a hard subject to tackle 'cause you're going to get it from all sides, right?
YOUSSEF: Yeah, absolutely.
GROSS: Can we just, like, break down the joke for a second and talk about the process of, like, speaking out in defense of Palestinian lives while also saying, you have to free the Israeli hostages, and then finding where the joke is going to land? Like, what is the funny part of that? What was the process like for you of figuring out, like, where do I go with this to turn it into comedy?
YOUSSEF: Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a balance of threading what needs to be said with diverting expectation. And so the expectation, obviously, in this joke - it's all just, like, tension release. It's like, OK, what am I going to say? What am I going to say? What's he going to say? And then it just - you swerve right into just - it's like, oh, my God, you think I support a terrorist group? Not that one - or whatever. You know what I mean?
GROSS: Right. Yeah. Yeah.
YOUSSEF: And so that's the misdirect, right? And so yeah, for me, it's, you know, how do you kind of thread that stuff and do it? And then you also know that you're not hitting everything - right? - because it's like - there's so much on the table in that joke that's just not discussed because it's a joke, and I'll never be able to get at it, you know? And that's just part of the cost of what it is that I do.
And I'm also - I'm not really qualified to. There's so many unbelievable Palestinian authors and historians and people who do these things in a way that's so much more eloquent because they know. And my thing is, like - not that I'm necessarily like a poet - but, you know, if you read poetry from the Middle East, it's so beautiful in how it can capture so much in its brevity. And that's my hope with a joke is in its brevity, it can kind of hold a lot of feelings.
So, you know, the misdirect at the end of the joke holds the frustration that you're even putting me in this framework of yours. And the idea that you think that I am not upset is insane because you've known me my whole life, you know? So all those things are kind of carried while trying to, you know, just hit the target of what my actual job is.
GROSS: Did part of you say to yourself, maybe I'd be better off not bringing this up at all?
YOUSSEF: At the end of the day, I'm wired to go near, don't touch that, don't touch that. I'm like a little child. I go, well, why not? No, I can touch it. I - let me prove to you that I can at least hover around it. That is just...
GROSS: Yeah.
YOUSSEF: That is just - I'm just, like, a little kid who's just like, no, don't tell me no. Yes, because I don't want there to be this elephant in the room. Then what am I - it feels so dishonest. It feels so, like, what is the point of even being up here, you know? Like, I can't let that go.
GROSS: In the series "The Studio," which was co-created by Seth Rogan, and he stars - it's a comedy series - and he stars as a movie studio head. There's an episode that takes place around the Golden Globes. Now, you won a Golden Globe for your performance in "Ramy," and you're one of the people who comes out and announces the award winners when they come up on stage. And anyway, there's a lot of campaigning in, like, all of the award shows. And I'm wondering, having won a Golden Globe and having been part of this episode, if you have anything to tell us about what that campaigning is like and what you think of it, if you had to do it and what the experience was like for you.
YOUSSEF: First off, that show, getting to be a part of it and do an episode, it was just - it was amazing 'cause those guys are so genius in their satire, you know, Seth and Evan. And I think what they get at so well is why it's called the business and why it's called the industry, you know, because it feels almost industrial. It's like, this is where you're going to show up, and this is what you're going to do, and these are the people you need to talk to. And I've always found this part of it - and I think they obviously relate to it - you have to be like, you have to be incredibly sensitive in order to tap into yourself to make something artistic that will resonate with people. Immediately, when you are done with this really sensitive process, it's almost like you need to harden everything about yourself that made you...
GROSS: (Laughter) Yeah.
YOUSSEF: ...Able to make that thing to then put up with a barrage of the criticism that's going to come about the project because no one will ever be - you never make something that everyone loves, in order to be in a bunch of rooms with people, where you kind of, you know - look, for me, I love meeting new people. I can't say that it's always this crazy strain, but certainly, you go to the point of exhaustion, where if you kind of don't harden yourself up a little bit, like, you're just going to feel terrible. And so I've always been really fascinated by we need the most sensitive people to suddenly be business people, and that is captured really well in that episode.
GROSS: You hosted "Saturday Night Live" last year, and it was during Ramadan. So how did that work out? - because people go crazy when they're guest hosting "Saturday Night Live." The whole cast goes crazy because they're writing, like, late into the morning, like overnight, and it sounded so intense in the days leading up to Saturday night. So how did you make it through all of that during Ramadan?
YOUSSEF: It was actually really wild because I did fast that whole week. In a way, "SNL's" hours are a bit Ramadan-friendly because everyone is up until these really - you know, it's almost like they could all do Ramadan all the time because it's - they leave the office at, like, 3 in the morning, and then they sleep in until, you know, like, noon or whatever, and then come and they work really hard. I'm not saying that, like, they're slacking, but in an odd way, it did work, but it was certainly a strain because you can't have that coffee to start the day. And I felt like I probably had a more calm week because I was fasting 'cause stuff would be going down and I'd go, you know, this is probably just Ramadan brain, and it's not actually a big deal. And so I got to kind of lean into that. But I'm pretty sure if I had just been eating, I would have been like, this is crazy.
(LAUGHTER)
YOUSSEF: This is so nuts but so much fun. I had so much fun. It was really a group of people. And when you go through that week with them, too, when you see them later, you just - you feel like you're seeing family because you went through that week.
GROSS: Yeah, it looked like you were having a good time. Ramy Youssef, it's really been such a pleasure to have you back on the show. Thank you so much.
YOUSSEF: Oh, thank you for the, you know, just incredibly thoughtful questions. It's always just so exciting. So I thank you, Terry.
GROSS: Ramy Youssef's new animated series called "#1 Happy Family USA" is streaming on Amazon Prime Video. He co-stars in the new HBO movie "Mountainhead," written and directed by Jesse Armstrong. It premieres May 31. After we take a short break, TV critic David Bianculli reviews this year's Kennedy Center Mark Twain Prize For American Humor ceremony honoring Conan O'Brien. It's streaming on Netflix. This is FRESH AIR.
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TERRY GROSS, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. Last December, Conan O'Brien was selected by the Kennedy Center as the next recipient of the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor. In February, newly reelected President Trump dismissed the Kennedy Center's chairman and president and appointed himself as the new chair. Invited performers, guests, and O'Brien himself had to decide whether to attend the March 23 Awards ceremony under the Kennedy Center's new leadership. They did, and Netflix recorded it and unveiled the resultant TV special May 4. It's called "Conan O'Brien: The Kennedy Center Mark Twain Prize For American Humor," and our TV critic David Bianculli has this review.
DAVID BIANCULLI, BYLINE: Bob Smigel was a writer for "Late Night With Conan O'Brien" in its early days and was and still is the man providing the voice and barbed humor of the sarcastic hand puppet known as Triumph the Insult Comic Dog. Triumph opened the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor Award presentation by subtly acknowledging the controversy caused by the recent restructuring of the Kennedy Center Management as Conan O'Brien, waiting in the wings to be introduced, laughed loudly.
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BOB SMIGEL: (As Triumph the Insult Comic Dog) Good evening, and welcome to the Kennedy Center. Thank you all for coming, and shame on you for being here. That should cover it, yes?
BIANCULLI: That tension and concern about partisan political interference towards the arts was unavoidable. But because this was a gathering of comics celebrating the brave and outspoken legacy of Mark Twain, it was not unmentionable. Here's how John Mulaney, the first of many comics to pay tribute to Conan, alluded to it.
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JOHN MULANEY: Congratulations to my friend Conan O'Brien on receiving the 26th and final Mark Twain prize for American humor.
BIANCULLI: The Max Weinberg 7, led by Conan's old "Late Night" and "Tonight Show" drummer, provided the music. Former sidekicks and opening acts, such as Andy Richter and Reggie Watts, were given time to pay their respects. So were three former recipients of the Mark Twain Prize - Will Ferrell, David Letterman and Adam Sandler.
Other comics both toasting and roasting the evening's guest of honor included Sarah Silverman, Stephen Colbert, Will Forte, Nikki Glaser, Bill Burr and Kumail Nanjiani, whose appearance was staged like a version of a TED Talk, complete with projected graphics and lots of statistics. He pointed out how Conan was widely recognized for launching his career as a staff writer on "The Simpsons." Then Nanjiani took a deep dive into the numbers to hilarious effect. Even Conan, in the guest of honor box but miked up, could be heard laughing at the mathematically accurate comedy bit and its pie charts.
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KUMAIL NANJIANI: Well, there are 781 episodes of the Simpsons. Conan wrote three.
(LAUGHTER)
NANJIANI: You know what? Let's zoom in so we can see it a little bit more.
(LAUGHTER)
NANJIANI: Let's zoom in a little bit more. There we go.
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NANJIANI: That is a whopping 0.38%. By comparison, Charles Manson wrote 0.41% of the songs released by The Beach Boys.
(LAUGHTER)
NANJIANI: Charles Manson is a bigger part of The Beach Boys than Conan is of "The Simpsons."
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BIANCULLI: Just about everyone on stage scored big and provided an original approach. Stephen Colbert brought along "Hot Ones" host Sean Evans to replicate Conan's viral hot wing-eating interview from that show. Sarah Silverman - well, you have to see what she did to believe it. And by the time David Letterman showed up at the end to hand the prize to Conan O'Brien, comics preceding him had combined to present the funniest Mark Twain Prize show in its 26-year history - and one with lots of messages.
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DAVID LETTERMAN: The Mark Twain Prize - oh, my God, let me just say one thing, and I'm not a historian, but I believe that history will show this will have been the most entertaining gathering of the resistance ever.
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BIANCULLI: The strongest points were saved for last, when Conan took the stage to accept the award. More than any previous recipient, he articulated an understanding and appreciation of what the author Mark Twain wrote and represented. Conan, after all, had graduated from Harvard, majoring in history and literature. And without once evoking the name of Donald Trump, Conan cited Twain's works and put them into a context that reflected our times as much as Twain's.
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CONAN O'BRIEN: First and foremost, Twain hated bullies. He populated his works with abusers such as Huck Finn's alcoholic father, Tom Driscoll in "Pudd'nhead Wilson," and he made his readers passionately hate those characters. He punched up, not down, and he deeply, deeply empathized with the weak.
BIANCULLI: Conan then brought it full circle by bringing things back to his perspective and his profession.
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O'BRIEN: Above all, Twain was a patriot in the best sense of the word. He loved America, but knew it was deeply flawed. Twain wrote, patriotism is supporting your country all of the time and your government when it deserves it.
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O'BRIEN: Now, some of you might be thinking, what does this have to do with comedy? It has everything to do with comedy. Everything.
BIANCULLI: It was as much a lecture as an acceptance speech, and it also may have provided a clue to a hidden motivation behind Conan's travel series "Conan O'Brien Must Go," which started its second season May 8 on Max.
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O'BRIEN: Twain empathized with the powerless in America - former slaves struggling in reconstruction, immigrant Chinese laborers in California and European Jews fleeing antisemitism. Twain's remedy for ignorance about the world around us was to travel at a time when travel was very long and very difficult. Twain circled the globe, and he wrote, travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.
BIANCULLI: From Triumph to Letterman, every speaker on that Kennedy Center stage that night explained why Conan O'Brien was a worthy recipient of the Mark Twain award, yet no one explained it as well as Conan himself. Afterward, when he closed the show by jamming on guitar, playing Neil Young's "Livin (ph) In The Free World" with Adam Sandler and The Max Weinberg 7, he looked like he was having the time of his life. And as this special proves, as a comic and even as a student of Twain's writings, Conan O'Brien has led quite a life.
GROSS: David Bianculli is a professor of television studies at Rowan University. He reviewed "Conan O'Brien: The Kennedy Center Mark Twain Prize For American Humor." It's streaming on Netflix.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Ladies and gentlemen, this man can play guitar. Don't we want to see the man jam a little bit?
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GROSS: Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, our guest will be ProPublica reporter David Armstrong. He'll explain why some critically needed prescription drugs are so expensive in the U.S. It's a subject he knows from personal experience. A single pill of the cancer treatment he takes costs roughly the same as a new iPhone. I hope you'll join us.
Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nyakundi and Anna Bauman. Our co-host is Tonya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Here we go. It's Conan O'Brien.
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Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.