'The Last of Us' actor Pedro Pascal says he wouldn't want to survive an apocalypse

TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. If you've watched TV, gone to the movies or even glanced at a bus stop ad in the past year, you've probably seen Pedro Pascal staring back at you. This summer alone, his face has been splashed across posters and billboards for "The Fantastic Four: First Steps," "Eddington" and Celine Song's "Materialists." He's also gearing up for "Avengers: Doomsday." And that's on top of an Emmy nomination for his role as Joel and HBO's "The Last Of Us." In the past decade, Pascal has become one of Hollywood's most magnetic leading men, often playing reluctant protectors like in "The Mandalorian" and "The Last Of Us," who find family in the unlikeliest of places. That connection between found family on screen and his own life came into sharp focus during his "Saturday Night Live" monologue in 2023, when he credited his parents for making sacrifices to bring him to the United States from South America, a journey that began with political exile and helped shape a career defined in part by portraying outsiders finding their way in.

That combination of personal history and on-screen vulnerability has made him something rare in Hollywood, a star that people feel like they know. A recent New Yorker cartoon captured it perfectly. A therapist tells a client, it's not strange at all. Lately, a lot of people are reporting that their faith in humanity is riding entirely on whether or not Pedro Pascal is as nice as he seems. Pedro Pascal, welcome to FRESH AIR.

(LAUGHTER)

PEDRO PASCAL: You will have to assess and share with everybody whether this is true, I suppose.

MOSLEY: Well, I think we're getting off to a great start. Congratulations on your Emmy nomination. It's a really big deal for you.

PASCAL: Oh, gosh, thanks very much. Thank you.

MOSLEY: Well, let's talk about "The Last Of Us." So I want to get folks up to speed if they don't know it. "The Last Of Us" is based on this hit video game set in this postapocalyptic America overrun by this fungal outbreak that turns people into the deadly infected. So basically, like zombies on steroids. And at its core, it's about your character, Joel, who is really contending with the loss of his daughter and trying to survive in spite of all of this. And Ellie, a teenage girl. You all connect, and she might be humanity's last hope.

We watched you guys survive these impossible circumstances. And then Season 2 happens. And I'm going to spoil it. You die very early on in a very brutal way. And I was completely blindsided. I know you have heard this before, but I actually had to take a break for a moment.

PASCAL: Sure.

MOSLEY: Because it was so much. Even for you, it was a lot to see your character die.

PASCAL: I understand. I mean, it's happened to me on other shows I've watched. I've had to take breaks whenever they throw these kinds of blindsides.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: Very sadistic to be attached to something. They know it, and they play with us (laughter).

MOSLEY: And you know it.

PASCAL: And we stick around.

MOSLEY: Right, you know it in taking on the role.

PASCAL: I did. Yeah. So that's kind of how - and, of course, the whole world of gaming really opened up to me when I took on this part. So it was just such a monumentally successful video game. And the medium of storytelling within this, within gaming is also very sophisticated, and more and more so over the last, you know, decade.

MOSLEY: It's a cinematic experience in itself playing the video game.

PASCAL: And also a very literary one as well because of how complex the stories can be, and so all kinds of genres. And this one obviously really being unique in how kind of grounded it was in its human characters, right? And the more skill you have at playing the game, the more you can unlock the story as it unfolds, right? Because my nephews lost their minds when they found out that I had gotten this job. And I hadn't heard of it. I hadn't heard of the game.

MOSLEY: You tell this funny story where they weren't just excited. They were like...

PASCAL: Yeah. They were, like, screaming. I called my older sister, and they were in the car, and I was on speaker. And I didn't even get the four words out.

MOSLEY: (Laughter).

PASCAL: I just got the last, and they were like, The Last of Us? You got to do it, you know? And so that being said, because of the nature of what the character story arc is and how structured it is on the adaptation, it was always a one-season deal.

MOSLEY: Oh.

PASCAL: And then the second season would be very committed to the second part of the game. And that it was all pretty mapped out in terms of, like...

MOSLEY: Right, that your character was for a finite amount of time, and you're going to die.

PASCAL: Yeah, and that he was going to go early, like he does...

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: ...In the experience of the game.

MOSLEY: So in Season 2, you have now connected deeply with Ellie, who is a young girl, 16 years old, who might hold the key to curing this fungus that has taken over the world. She's immune to it. And you all are on this journey together. You meet up and you're connected, and so you're moving through this world together. And you make this choice that changes the ability for her to actually maybe be the person that could provide the cure. And so in this scene, which is a spoiler, you explain to her why you've made the choices that you've made to keep her in the relationship with you instead of possibly being the person that could provide the cure. Let's listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE LAST OF US")

PASCAL: (As Joel Miller) Making a cure would've killed you.

BELLA RAMSEY: (As Ellie Williams) Then I was supposed to die. That was my purpose. My life would've [expletive] mattered, but you took that from me. You took it from everyone.

PASCAL: (As Joel Miller) Yes. And I'll pay the price because you're going to turn away from me. But if somehow I had a second chance at that moment, I would do it all over again.

RAMSEY: (As Ellie Williams) Because you're selfish.

PASCAL: (As Joel Miller) Because I love you in a way you can't understand. Maybe you never will. But if that day should come, if you should ever have one of your own, well, then I hope you do a little better than me.

MOSLEY: Man, look at us. We're about to start crying in the studio (laughter). That was my guest today, Pedro Pascal, in Season 2 of "The Last Of Us." Ellie goes on to say to you, I don't think I can forgive you, but I'm going to try. When you think back to that choice, Joel choosing to keep her alive, to love her and for his own comfort over those other bigger things, the greater good for society - because she might hold a cure for this fungal thing that's spreading across the world. How do you see him now? Like, do you see his decision as selfish or something more complicated?

PASCAL: You know, it's interesting. I think that the primary way that I was able to understand it is that it isn't a choice. He is incapable of losing her and incapable of processing in a rational way what would be a profound sacrifice for him for the greater good. It is not something he is able to understand because of all of his unprocessed grief and loss over...

MOSLEY: His own daughter...

PASCAL: ...His original daughter that he was unable to save that he's lived with. That is literally the kind of defining factor of his adult identity, post apocalypse. He is the man that didn't save his daughter's life. And he - before that, he was the man that lived for his daughter's life. And so, once he's stepped into - reluctantly, but, inevitably - into that kind of a relationship again, he's incapable of giving her up. And I can imagine - so I can't objectively say that that's the right thing to do. And given any kind of, like, you know, God forbid any of us find (laughter) ourselves in circumstances like these, but...

MOSLEY: Right, right. Yeah.

PASCAL: ...You would just hope that you would do, you know, the right thing, but who knows what any of us would be capable of when it is related to love and grief and loss and trauma and all those things. And so I was always like, well, he didn't have a choice, you know, even though he very clearly did, but not one that he was in relationship to. It's almost like his own, like, body could only see one way. I just don't know what my initial instinct would be. But I would sort of, like, want to nurture a mind that knows that violence is never the answer.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: But it's not hard to, again, because it's all imagination...

MOSLEY: Right.

PASCAL: ...And sort of, like, emotional play and make-believe, as dark as it may be, it is make-believe in the end, so it is easy - very easy - for me to imagine...

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: ...Taking somebody out if they're coming for my own.

(LAUGHTER)

MOSLEY: I know. So could you survive, Pedro, for real? Like...

PASCAL: Oh, God.

MOSLEY: ...In a real life - if this was like...

PASCAL: I don't think so (laughter). I don't know. I think if the people that I love were sticking around and being like, you know, no, we got to deal with this, and I'd be like, oh, shoot. OK. Alright, let's face this because I'd be too scared of leaving anybody behind or leaving anybody on their own. But I don't know. I'm definitely not down for stress.

MOSLEY: Right.

PASCAL: (Laughter).

MOSLEY: I mean, 'cause there's the constant fear of the people you love, keeping them safe constantly.

PASCAL: Exactly. And that's what keeps you going. That's kind of what keeps you alive. With Joel, I think it's different because he feels he's lost all the people that he loves. And then he doesn't really let himself love anymore. He's looking for his brother at the beginning of the first season. His brother whom he loves very much. But outside of that, he's not allowing himself to love, so it really is simply survival. And I don't know if I would have that will.

MOSLEY: Yeah. Let's take a short break.

If you're just joining us, my guest is Pedro Pascal. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF MICHAEL GIACCHINO'S "THE FANTASTIC FOUR: FIRST STEPS MAIN THEME")

MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. And today, my guest is Pedro Pascal.

You hosted "SNL" in 2023, but we're still talking about it like it was just yesterday. It comes up often. You know, it's like a high point for many actors. What did it mean for you?

PASCAL: Oh, everything. I have to say, it's - I'm trying to lean away from being too hyperbolic about it, but it was definitely, like, the most romantic experience I've ever had...

MOSLEY: Romantic.

PASCAL: ...Professionally.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: Yeah.

MOSLEY: What do you mean by that?

PASCAL: It's legacy, you know, No. 1, what it has authored in terms of culture, for better or worse, you know, since it started. And so it's just something I grew up with. Some of its original stars are my biggest imprints.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: I mean, Eddie Murphy came from "SNL."

MOSLEY: I know, right? Do you - I'm thinking about...

PASCAL: "SNL" gave us Eddie Murphy (laughter).

MOSLEY: Right. Were you thinking about that during your time on there? Yeah.

PASCAL: I was thinking about all of that.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: And then I think that what I was expecting was all of that to really kind of make it a miserable experience because I would be so afraid and so in my head about bombing on live TV and really, like, marking a point in my life with public humiliation (laughter).

MOSLEY: That's so much to hold.

(LAUGHTER)

PASCAL: I know. I know, I know. But let's just say, you know, you hold it, but you start to let it go.

MOSLEY: Was there a moment on the set...

PASCAL: You gradually let it go.

MOSLEY: ...Where you were like, oh, I'm doing fine.

PASCAL: There is a process that is so - it's so ritual. And we have such an incredible community of actors, you know, that have gone through the experience and so many of which that were so willing to kind of talk to me before I went into it because, you know, it's something you feel you can't say no to, but also, with the offer is terror before excitement and has been - which is the case for many people that I've spoken to.

MOSLEY: Did you call up people...

PASCAL: 'Cause it's just live...

MOSLEY: ...Or did people call you up when they found out you were going to be on there?

PASCAL: For the first couple of weeks, I didn't talk to anybody because I wasn't willing to think about it beyond my capacity of facing the reality that it was going to happen. And then once there was an announcement and it was out there, then I started to - I talked to friends that had been on it. But right before I got into, like, my first sort of, like, Monday night meeting with the cast and the writers and Lorne Michaels, I was talking to Aubrey Plaza, who had just hosted and had slayed. And she took me through this process, and she was just like, go with it. Monday's this. Tuesday's that. Wednesday starts to ramp up, and it starts to turn into this, da-da-da. And then Thursday, like, you know, like, save yourself. You're going to have Wednesday night dinner, don't get too drunk because on Thursday is when it really is, you know...

MOSLEY: 'Cause that dinner is when it's the whole cast and...

PASCAL: Yeah. Yeah.

MOSLEY: ...Guys. Yeah.

PASCAL: Yeah. And you have a dinner, and it's like, it's all a ritual that has been fine tuned or very much in place from its very beginning, but it definitely feels like you are in this, like, decades-long experience that holds you very, very well. And on Monday, the first thing was going in and having a one-on-one with Lorne in his office and sitting across from this legendary person in the intimacy of just the two of you, having - I don't know what we were going to talk about. Well, you know, I just...

MOSLEY: (Laughter) Yes.

PASCAL: I didn't care. I was just like, I'm just going to sit there, and I'm going to listen or, you know, I hope he doesn't - I hope I'm not meant to contribute anything 'cause all I have right now is fear. And to my left is this fish tank with these big-eyed, blinking, smiling, kind of bulbous-lipped fish that are, you know, kind of, like, curiously swimming up to the glass to check out the...

MOSLEY: The new person in the...

PASCAL: ...Stranger...

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: ...In the office. And it's just giving you this sweet, dumb smile and blinking at you, and it was so disarming. I have no idea if it is intentional...

MOSLEY: (Laughter).

PASCAL: ...On his part. But it was...

MOSLEY: It worked for you.

PASCAL: Oh, my God, did it work. And then he is somebody that really wants to set you up for success, and I felt very seen. And then comes the community of actors and writers that are all fully enthusiastic and passionate about what they do and get really excited if you're down to do whatever...

MOSLEY: And you were down.

PASCAL: ...They want.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: Oh, heck yeah.

MOSLEY: You were down. So my producers and I had a debate, really, about what clip to play because they were all so funny. But I want to play a clip from a skit you did called "Fancam Assembly." So, you play Mr. Ben. He's a popular high school teacher. He's leading this assembly with all these students in an auditorium about the tech rules of the school, specifically begging kids to stop making fan cams of you, Mr. Ben. And just to let the audience know since they can't see it, like, these fan cam videos, you're like - I mean, you know, they're edits. They're like, you're hot. Like, you're looking at the camera, smoldering. You know, like, you're all of this. And the students push back when you say, like, don't do this anymore. They push back, they - with stan slang, and they keep cutting together new fan cams of you in real time. Let's listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE")

BOWEN YANG: (As character) No, skinny legend. Why are you doing this?

(LAUGHTER)

PASCAL: (As Mr. Ben) Because you have made thousands of fan cams of me, and I'm not sure what they mean, but I know it has to stop.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) But we make them because you're our beloved, and you have us in a choke hold.

PASCAL: (As Mr. Ben) OK, don't say that.

(LAUGHTER)

PASCAL: (As Mr. Ben) I just don't understand. Why do you make sparkly, fast, romantic montages of me every single day, like this?

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE: (Whooping).

DEVON WALKER: (As character) I mean, we don't make them every day.

YANG: (As character) Yeah, just on the days you send us or give us life.

(LAUGHTER)

PASCAL: (As Mr. Ben) What does that mean?

EGO NWODIM: (As character) Don't worry. It just means your foot is always on our necks. See?

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE: (Whooping).

PASCAL: (As Mr. Ben) Is that me right now? How did you make that so fast, and how did you take over access to the monitor?

WALKER: (As character) Mr. Ben, why are you so mad? You're in your assembly era.

(LAUGHTER)

PASCAL: (As Mr. Ben) I'm not mad. I'm confused. Is the way I ate this up a compliment because it was nom-nom delish and had you gagged?

NWODIM: (As character) Exactly. We love you down, Mr. Ben.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) You're so father, period.

(CHEERING)

MOSLEY: That was my guest today, Pedro Pascal, on "SNL" from 2023. Have you ever had a surreal moment where you're like, oh, my gosh. Wow, I am a meme. I am a certified meme and people are making edits of me every day, hundreds of them, on TikTok and Instagram?

PASCAL: I love the young generation so much. Just listening to that and all of the phrasing, I just die for it.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: I really do. And I came to it kind of late. You know, I've - just like everybody - I don't know what year we're talking about, but at some point, you know, I had Facebook and then came Instagram. TikTok I didn't have. I think, yes, at one point, it found its way, like, into my algorithm. But I think that...

MOSLEY: You.

PASCAL: Yeah.

MOSLEY: Like, you found your way into your algorithm.

PASCAL: (Laughter) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: I'm going to call it it.

(LAUGHTER)

PASCAL: I'm going to call it that. It found its way into my algorithm because, you know - which are also kind of, you know, brilliant, hilarious edits to songs. And I definitely am flattered, totally perplexed by a lot of it because - I don't know. I mean, how would you feel? You know what I mean? Like, you just have to kind of just sort of go, all right (laughter).

MOSLEY: Right, right, right. Just let it be.

PASCAL: Just kind of, like - because it authors itself on its own, really. And so there's a strange relationship you feel you don't have to a thing that's kind of happening.

MOSLEY: Our guest today is actor Pedro Pascal. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF RODRIGO AMARANTE'S "TUYO")

MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. My guest today is Emmy-nominated actor Pedro Pascal, one of Hollywood's most magnetic leading men right now. He's best known for playing reluctant protectors, characters who find family in the unlikeliest of places. Pascal is nominated this year for his portrayal of Joel, a gruff survivor in a postapocalyptic world who risks everything to protect a teenage girl, in the show "The Last Of Us." His performance has been praised for bringing both vulnerability and quiet intensity to a character caught between love and loss and moral compromise. This year alone, Pascal has appeared in Celine Song's romantic drama "Materialists," Ari Aster's "Eddington" and "The Fantastic Four: First Steps."

You moved to New York for college, and you got deep into the theater. You had these small roles on television, "Law & Order," some other little bits.

PASCAL: Yeah, all of them (laughter).

MOSLEY: All of them, right. But your breakthrough role did not happen until 2014 with "Game Of Thrones." And I want to go back to that time period because I think you talked about, like, it was 15 years of entry level for you, which a lot of those years were in the theater. That's 15 years of climbing, of near success. Because what had been success for you up until that moment?

PASCAL: Success up to that moment, which was huge, because I tell you, when you get a call and they say you booked a part, whether it's, like, you know, two scenes in an episode of "Law & Order," you know, you jump up and down. And it always felt that way. And as I got older, I think that there was incredible success in just supporting myself through acting.

MOSLEY: And you were doing this through theater, yeah, mostly.

PASCAL: Through theater and episodic television.

MOSLEY: Yep, yep.

PASCAL: Yeah. And the medical insurance through Equity, which was our stage actors' union, was really good. I don't know how good it is now.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: But these kinds of things really, really help you survive. And even though you're, you know, barely - what you're actually putting into the bank is barely enough to - well, it's not nearly enough to pay your rent. But there are a lot of elements in place with consistent work that just kind of help you get by.

MOSLEY: What were some of the things you were doing in those in between times between roles, between theater roles and these episodic television appearances?

PASCAL: I was working in restaurants.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: And I was never good at it because that's a real skill, you know? Service is highly, highly demanding work and highly laborious. And, I mean, a lot of it can be, anyway. Some busy restaurants, I mean, that is some high-octane...

MOSLEY: Is it true that you got fired like 10 times?

PASCAL: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

MOSLEY: From different restaurants?

PASCAL: Oh, yeah.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: Yeah. Different cafes that were opening up. Like, I got fired from being a barista to being a...

MOSLEY: What was, like, the No. 1 reason? That's a lot of firings, Pedro.

PASCAL: I know, I know. You know, there would be a lot of different reasons. I'd be lying if I didn't say that sometimes it was attitude (laughter). Yeah, I'm not perfect. And, yeah, one manager didn't like my attitude, or one customer didn't like my attitude. Or I just wasn't very - honestly, I wasn't very good at it. I didn't get good at it until - it took years to get good at it and to be sort of consistently in one place. I can't believe I'm talking about this, but there was a restaurant manager named Alyssa. And it's funny. We can turn this into kind of the theme of feeling and being seen...

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: ...And kind of believed in.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: You know what I mean?

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: I had that at a restaurant. And she kind of, you know, she sort of stuck it out with me. And she really, really kind of helped me learn, instead of through kind of pressure and antagonism, but support, how to wait tables well. And she was just kind of, like, on your side as a restaurant manager. And I felt that to be kind of like a rare and very refreshing kind of energy.

MOSLEY: What was it about acting? Because you started talking about wanting to be an actor at, like, 4 years old.

PASCAL: Well, I was born in '75. And just think about seeing "E.T." in the movie theater, you know?

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: Think about seeing "Poltergeist" and "The Goonies" and, you know, "Gremlins." And, you know, so just very, very easy source of building a fantasy of, you know, wishing you were either living these adventures, experiencing these adventures, or part of the adventure of telling those stories, you know?

MOSLEY: Yeah. I keep coming across these little details, like you being obsessed with "The Color Purple."

PASCAL: Yeah.

MOSLEY: James Baldwin, "For Colored Girls," "To Kill A Mockingbird." So you were really into literature as well. And I'm trying to piece together, who is this kid?

PASCAL: (Laughter).

MOSLEY: How would you describe yourself back then? You were a deeply feeling child. But what did these worlds provide for you? Because, you know, they're entertaining for everyone else. But it sounds like there was another step for you where you felt immersed in them.

PASCAL: Well, I think being moved, you feel very alive. You feel very inspired, you know, and in school, in a way, by incredible storytelling, incredible performances, incredible literature, you know? So the process around "The Color Purple" is very interesting, because we had cable TV. And Whoopi Goldberg had a televised show that had been transferred to Broadway and then shot for television for HBO. It was just called "Whoopi."

MOSLEY: Yes.

PASCAL: And she was playing a bunch of different characters. And I was just floored. It was magic. And with that show, "Whoopi," I mean, I saw that so many times, I could do some of her monologues.

MOSLEY: You could recite. The hair and the towel.

PASCAL: Oh, my gosh. And he said OK, I said OK, we said OK, OK?

(LAUGHTER)

PASCAL: And, I mean, I literally haven't - I haven't seen that since I think the '80s.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: You know, and it's imprinted, right? And then I'm walking out of a movie. And I see a poster of this, like, silhouette of Whoopi Goldberg in a rocking chair with purple, and Steven Spielberg's name on it and her name, Whoopi Goldberg, and "The Color Purple." And I'm just like, here I am completely moved by the marketing of it.

MOSLEY: (Laughter).

PASCAL: And I think the movie is a masterpiece. And I think it's one of the greatest screen performances in the history of cinema that she did in her purely freshman experience, her first time on camera.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: On film.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: Her first movie role.

MOSLEY: Right.

PASCAL: And I just was, frankly, overwhelmed, you know, by it, in the best way. And I couldn't let it go, so I had to get the book. And I read the book.

MOSLEY: You'd walk around with the book.

PASCAL: I would hold it, yeah. I would hold it like a treasure.

MOSLEY: Your mom saw this in you.

PASCAL: (Laughter).

MOSLEY: She saw this and wanted to connect with you because of it. You guys would have these family movie nights.

PASCAL: Yeah. Yeah. My dad was...

MOSLEY: Describe what that - yeah.

PASCAL: My dad was the moviegoer. My mom was selective. She would fall for - she would notice much more if I was, like, really into a book or if Prince was in it.

(LAUGHTER)

MOSLEY: So you're a big Prince fan. But that also was...

PASCAL: But she was - no, she was the Prince fan.

MOSLEY: OK.

PASCAL: She was the huge Prince fan, which by proxy made me a big Prince fan.

MOSLEY: And that's around "Purple Rain" time.

PASCAL: Oh, yeah.

MOSLEY: Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is Pedro Pascal. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF LUDWIG GORANSSON'S "THE MANDALORIAN")

MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. Today, my guest is Pedro Pascal.

What were these movie nights like - these family movie nights?

PASCAL: Well, "Purple Rain" is a perfect example of where we all went together. Like, my dad would try to, you know, take us on a school night whenever he got a chance to whatever he wanted to see, but "Purple Rain" was like, we're all going, you know (laughter)? And I guess they're sort of, you know, my most special memories. We're a very sort of, like, movie-going family.

My older sister has a love of dance and did ballet. So we would go to the - as a child, she studied ballet, and so we would go to the ballet a lot. I hated it at first until I saw, I think, a really hilarious production of "A Midsummer Night's Dream" and then started to kind of really appreciate the kind of storytelling that happened through dance.

MOSLEY: Did you ever dance?

PASCAL: My - I didn't. I didn't dance. I mean, I danced, you know, like, at any chance I got.

MOSLEY: Yeah, to Prince and stuff.

PASCAL: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I danced around the house.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: I danced around my parents' parties, Christmas, New Year's, all that stuff. I never took class. But then in a performing arts program that my mother found that I went to from my freshman year in high school to graduation, you had to study dance - you know, did "West Side Story." And I loved dance and actually got sort of really seriously into, I guess, what you would call sort of postmodern style of improvisational dance in college. And that was the only work I could get when I graduated, actually, or through movement professors and doing a lot of downtown stuff.

MOSLEY: When you say downtown, what do you mean?

PASCAL: South of 14th Street...

MOSLEY: OK.

PASCAL: ...St. Mark's Church...

MOSLEY: OK.

PASCAL: ...Lower East Side...

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: ...East Village, site-specific performances, this piece called "Demeter's Daughter" that was conceived by a choreographer named Tamar Rogoff, who is a lifelong family friend and mentor to Claire Danes. And...

MOSLEY: What kinds of stuff would you do for them? Yeah.

PASCAL: We'd play, like, postmodern dance, like, you know, sort of create movement and dance. And then it wasn't the kind of thing like, this is the choreography. Learn it. It was like, let's move, and let's write this together.

MOSLEY: Kind of like improvisation but for the body.

PASCAL: ...Through body movement.

MOSLEY: I'm so fascinated about that physicality because there is a holding of the body in all the characters that you play. I'm thinking about in "The Last Of Us." Like, how would you describe what Joel is holding in his body?

PASCAL: Yeah, holding a lot of trauma, one, and then in a more simple way, this is a man who works with his hands. He's a contractor, and he builds things. He, I think, expresses himself through his physical relationship to work and to maintenance and that kind of thing. So it's sort of like understanding a person who works very roughly with his hands and is in sort of a very consistent relationship to physical labor - you know?

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: ...In a way that he probably loves because it's way easier than having a conversation (laughter).

MOSLEY: Right, right. But it's so fascinating about you and your history with dancing because, I mean, so much of - well, so much of your acting is so physical. Like, I'm just thinking about a lot of films that you're in. There's so much silent power in what you're doing, but it's through your body that you're telling the story.

PASCAL: Well, "Game Of Thrones" being a perfect example of, like, experiencing, you know, that level of exposure for a part. And one would argue that what the role is most known for is the fight.

MOSLEY: Yes.

PASCAL: And that is more dance than you can possibly believe...

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: ...If you don't want to get killed, anyway, you know? That is physicality in its purest form, and that is choreography in its purest form. So it's just ironic because I was already pushing 40 when that job happened.

MOSLEY: Right.

PASCAL: And so the doors that opened were, frankly, leaning in the world of action and a lot of highly, highly, highly physical choreography in the experiences, more so than I could have ever imagined, having had a lot of, like, fight choreography on stage, you know, in Shakespeare and all that. But this was, like, another level.

MOSLEY: Your family history is fascinating because your parents fled Chile when you were a baby. Growing up, what was the story that you heard?

PASCAL: You know, I didn't hear any stories about it, actually. And I hear stories now because I ask. And I also am met with the sort of desire to share and desire to tell what it meant for, you know, my father's sisters to say goodbye to their brother in that way or for my mother's family to live in the terror of the experience of her going into hiding and...

MOSLEY: Because what's the story? Because the story that you came to learn, your parents were very young.

PASCAL: Yes.

MOSLEY: You were a baby.

PASCAL: Yes.

MOSLEY: And they fled from South America to the United States to Texas.

PASCAL: Yes. We had asylum in Denmark first and were likely to, you know, stay there, were it not for somebody that helped hire my father into his lab in San Antonio, Texas.

MOSLEY: Why were your parents exiled?

PASCAL: Oh, well, they were involved in the opposition movement against the military regime under Pinochet. They were Allende supporters and, frankly, just very young and liberal. And my mother's side of the family, there's a cousin of my mother's, Andres Pascal, who was a leader of the opposition movement. And so that, I think, just by association sort of could put the name and family in peril. But there was someone who brought an injured man to my mother's and father's home - knowing that my father was doing his residency at a hospital - and asked for help. And he'd been shot in the leg. And the - it was a priest who brought him over to our house. And, you know, at this point, I'm an infant. So obviously, I have no memory. But the priest was taken into custody, and he was tortured and he gave names. And then they went looking for my parents and - you know, and so they had to, you know, go into hiding and find a way to survive.

There are a lot of details that kind of go into it that create, like, such a fascinating story - the odd circumstance of my father finding out that someone was in the lobby asking for his name and a patient that kind of, like, interrupted the moment where the officer wanted to - was about to ask my father who he was or his name, if he was doctor - in fact, Dr. Balmaceda, and a patient that was like, you know, I'm in pain, and no one is attending to me. And I almost wonder - I mean, you know, you got to be careful because, you know, what - how much story do you build around it, and what's really real? But this was this chance circumstance that gave my father the opportunity to sneak out the back to go and get my mother and go into hiding.

MOSLEY: Right.

PASCAL: And they were right because they came to the house. They tore everything apart. And it was about six months before they found a plan to sneak into the Venezuelan Embassy and claim asylum...

MOSLEY: Wow.

PASCAL: ...And be reunited with my sister and I.

MOSLEY: What a story to learn in adulthood.

PASCAL: Yeah.

MOSLEY: It's not a lore. It's not a story you grew up knowing and having pride in.

PASCAL: Right. I had a sense of it. I remember one very, very vivid experience of seeing the movie "Missing." See, this is the funny thing, is that, like, here we are, this nuclear family in the suburbs of San Antonio, Texas, with this not-distant legacy of escape. I mean, the dictatorship was continuing on, and I'm seeing a movie about it in my house, and Sissy Spacek is the size of my mother...

MOSLEY: Right, because "Missing"...

PASCAL: ...The age of my mother...

MOSLEY: Yes. Yes, yes, yeah.

PASCAL: ...In the movie, "Missing" - right?

MOSLEY: Right.

PASCAL: ...By Costa-Gavras.

MOSLEY: Yes.

PASCAL: And her, you know, being out in the streets past curfew by accident and her life being in peril and me somehow putting all of that together and understanding that, sort of placing my mother in that circumstance as a child and just, like, absolutely falling apart.

MOSLEY: How old are you?

PASCAL: When the movie came out in - I must've been, like - I don't know - maybe 7.

MOSLEY: Wow.

PASCAL: Yeah. It was a different time. Parents were letting us - parents were...

MOSLEY: Oh, I know.

PASCAL: Parents were letting us watch whatever was on TV (laughter).

MOSLEY: But I'm saying wow about you piecing that together...

PASCAL: Yeah.

MOSLEY: ...And somehow understanding, Sissy Spacek is my mom.

PASCAL: Yeah, feeling that way.

MOSLEY: Feeling that way.

PASCAL: Feeling that way in that moment. And I - it had to stop. I fell apart.

MOSLEY: You literally started crying.

PASCAL: Oh...

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: I started - I mean, it was like, you know, I think, something, you know, bordering on howling. I was - I just - I was so...

MOSLEY: Did you ever get to talk to your mom about it?

PASCAL: ...Traumatized by the idea. I don't know. I never got a chance to talk to my mom about it the way I'm talking to you about it, you know, unfortunately. I wonder if she understood. But yeah, I guess just to answer it simply, no, not really.

MOSLEY: When you say you wonder if she understood, what do you mean?

PASCAL: If she understood that I was kind of a son who was scared for her, you know, and kind of absorbing the context but not really knowing how to process the context.

MOSLEY: If you're just joining us, my guest is Pedro Pascal. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF MICHAEL GIACCHINO'S "THE FANTASTIC FOUR: FIRST STEPS MAIN THEME")

MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. Today, my guest is Pedro Pascal. He's on an amazing run as the star in several films and TV shows right now, including "The Mandalorian," "Game Of Thrones," "Narcos" and now "The Last Of Us," where he plays Joel, a grief-stricken survivor navigating a postapocalyptic world.

Movies have been so important to you in your life.

PASCAL: I mean, they're just everything.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: (Laughter).

MOSLEY: They allow you to understand the world.

PASCAL: Yeah.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: Yeah.

MOSLEY: And now you're doing that for other people. Do you ever think about it like that?

PASCAL: I feel profound gratitude to be doing something that I love to do and the people that I get to do it with, and being, sort of, always a part of an experience, you know, whether it's well received or not. But always, like, everyone involved is putting their entire selves and bodies into, you know, and cares so much about making it. And it's very bonding. It's very fun. And I don't know anything else.

MOSLEY: That "SNL" appearance, it also happened on the anniversary of your mother's death. Yeah. Did you clock that for yourself?

PASCAL: I really did. It was obviously a sad anniversary for most of my adult life and for my - you know, my family's life, my siblings, you know, their whole lives. And I don't think I realized it until there was kind of, like, a Post-it note announcement in the way that "SNL" does, where they have the date, the host and the musical guest.

And I realized that I hadn't seen that, I hadn't seen those numbers together outside of my mother's gravestone. I was like, oh, my gosh. Wow. And, of course, there was so much opportunity there to sort of add fear to the experience (laughter) in a profound way. This is going to be a double negative anniversary (laughter). And it was the opposite.

And my family was there and it was a day of, like, achievement and joy, incredible joy and community because the other magical part of "SNL" is that it really actually felt like old days in the theater, like, showing up and doing a reading of somebody's play or, like, mounting something on the fly, you know?

And were it not for all of those years, I think, in New York, I think I cognitively could have easily had a total meltdown because of how you are needing to read cue cards...

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: ...And be in the moment.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

PASCAL: So that it would be, you know, on February 4 was a gift that I'm holding onto.

MOSLEY: What a gift.

PASCAL: Yeah.

MOSLEY: Oh, Pedro.

PASCAL: (Laughter).

MOSLEY: This has been great.

PASCAL: Thank you, Tonya. Thank you so much for having me. I can't tell you. This is part of my little pinch-me moment. I told you before we started, I've been listening to NPR through my parents since I was a teenager and my entire adult life. I've been listening to FRESH AIR forever. And getting to sit here with you is very special.

MOSLEY: Pedro Pascal - he's nominated for an Emmy Award for his performance in Season 2 of "The Last Of Us." His film "Fantastic Four: First Steps" is still in theaters, and "Eddington" and the "Materialists" are now streaming.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "PURPLE RAIN")

PRINCE: (Singing) I never meant to cause you any sorrow. I never meant to cause you any pain. I only wanted, one time, to see you laughing. I only want to see you laughing in the purple rain. Purple rain, purple rain.

MOSLEY: If you'd like to catch up on interviews you've missed, like our conversation with Daniel Dae Kim, who starred in the hit TV series "Lost," about his new spy thriller TV series "Butterfly," or Jeff Hiller, who's nominated for an Emmy for his performance in the HBO series "Somebody Somewhere," check out our podcast. You'll find lots of FRESH AIR interviews.

And to find out what's happening behind the scenes of our show and get our producers recommendations for what to watch, read and listen to, subscribe to our free newsletter, whyy.org/freshair. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Susan Nyakundi, Anna Bauman and John Sheehan.

Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Our consulting visual producer is Hope Wilson. Thea Chaloner directed today's show. With Terry Gross, I'm Tonya Mosley.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

PRINCE: (Singing) It's such a shame our friendship had to end. Purple rain, purple rain. Purple rain, purple rain. Purple rain, purple rain.

Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.