A young mom turns to OnlyFans to make ends meet in 'Margo's Got Money Troubles'

TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley and my guest today, award-winning actor Oscar Isaac, was still deep inside one of the most consuming roles of his career playing Victor Frankenstein when director Lee Sung Jin came calling for him to star in the second season of his Netflix series "Beef." In "Beef," Oscar plays Josh, the manager of an upscale Los Angeles country club. He's polished and charming. But underneath that smooth exterior, his life is falling apart because he's stealing from the club, and underneath the facade, his marriage is also falling apart. Oscar said at first, he had a hard time connecting to this character. But it helped when an acting coach told him to try to bring the character of Victor Frankenstein into the role. How would Victor feel being trapped inside of Josh's small life? This is exactly what Oscar needed to step into the character.

In this scene from the series, Josh and his wife, Lindsay, played by Carey Mulligan, are home after spending the day at the country club. They get into an argument, which turns into a full-blown fight, with both of them saying the worst things a married couple could say to each other. It's intense.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "BEEF")

CAREY MULLIGAN: (As Lindsay Crane-Martin) Charity committee music.

OSCAR ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) You like doing that stuff. You like doing it.

MULLIGAN: (As Lindsay Crane-Martin) I hate it. I've just gotten really good at pretending.

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) Lindsay, you get privileged access to titans in every industry, and you love it.

MULLIGAN: (As Lindsay Crane-Martin) Who are these titans?

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) We get to be friends with politicians and CEOs. We had dinner with Bono.

MULLIGAN: (As Lindsay Crane-Martin) This is the thing. You think that they're your friends, but they're not. You're staff. You're an employee. They pay you to be around.

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) Well, one of us has to get paid. Maybe if we had a little more income, I wouldn't have to do this job that you find so repulsive.

MULLIGAN: (As Lindsay Crane-Martin) Well, I gave you my entire inheritance, and we're still completely underwater. So...

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) If you bring up my mother right now, I will lose my s**t. I do not regret a dime we spent on her.

MOSLEY: Oscar Isaac is a Golden Globe winner who has moved between indie films and global franchises, from Shakespeare to "Star Wars." His films and TV work include "Inside Llewyn Davis," "Dune," "Card Counter," "Scenes From A Marriage" and, most recently, "Frankenstein." Oscar Isaac, welcome back to FRESH AIR.

ISAAC: Thanks, Tonya. Very happy to be here.

MOSLEY: We're going to get to that intense fight in just...

ISAAC: OK.

MOSLEY: ...A second. But...

ISAAC: I said - when we were shooting that, I said, I hope that on my in memoriam clip, it'll just be me screaming, we had dinner with Bono.

MOSLEY: I know, right? I know.

(LAUGHTER)

MOSLEY: But, you know, first, I want to talk to you about this thing this acting coach told you - to bring Victor into the room. Why was that the key to unlock this character, Josh?

ISAAC: Well, it was - it's interesting 'cause it was - that's almost accurate. There's elements that are, but the time frame was actually - I was in the midst of shooting already. And I was having - I was kind of losing my voice a bit. I just felt like my throat was always so tight, and I was having a hard time. And there's this wonderful acting teacher, guru, Kim Gillingham. And I met with her, and I said, I'm having a really hard time, and I don't know. And on the way over, I was actually, you know, thinking about Victor and how much fun that was. And then she had the great idea of, like, well, let's, you know, bring Victor back and let him talk to Josh.

And so we did this exercise where - you know, it's a form of hypnosis. And then she - she was like, now, let Victor come and speak. And he came back, and he was just so angry to be stuck in this little tiny man. And so that feeling of being strangled was coming a bit from that. And it wasn't about letting go of that 'cause that's an important part of the character. But yeah. It was a really interesting exercise to kind of bridge that gap because sometimes, yeah, you know, it's - you're playing with energy. And the nervous system is - you know, I think it was eight months or something of working on "Frankenstein." And then a tiny break, and then I was right into doing "Beef." So to kind of have a physiological mindfulness about how to move into the new character was great.

MOSLEY: You describe Josh as living in a small life, but he manages this world with a lot of old money and privilege. Can you explain that a bit more?

ISAAC: Yes. So Josh Martin - he works - he is the general manager of Monte Vista Point Country Club. Very elite, lots of athletes - as he says in that clip, titans of every industry. And he is the GM, and he worked his way up from the barn cart. He's been there since he was 16 years old. And it's taken a lot of work to get where he is, but he's great with people. And, you know, he's a incredibly hard worker, and his love language is service as well. But behind that, it's not a selfless service. I think he's - he wants access, and there's something in him that feels he'll never be somebody that can become a member. And this is the closest he can get to have access to this kind of life.

MOSLEY: Yeah. At the end of the day, he is the help, for lack of a better term.

ISAAC: That's right. That's what his wife says to him. She's like, you're - they're not your friends. They're - you're the help.

MOSLEY: Thinking about this character, Josh, in "Beef," he doesn't belong there, really, but his way of giving back is through service. And then there is this fight where we just see another side of him. So he's charming to all of the people who are part of the club. But at home, this fight he has with his wife - I mean, we heard a little bit of it in the intro. It gets worse. Lindsay, his wife, picks up a golf club. You tell her, thank God we don't have kids, stuff like that. And so I'm thinking about you pulling from your role as Victor Frankenstein. In his case specifically, his cruelty kind of comes from a wound he can't look at directly. Where does Josh's cruelty live? I mean, is it someplace different? Is it out of frustration?

ISAAC: I think with Josh, it's the - yeah. It's the rejection that she's saying. It's, like, the kind of, I see through this identity that you created. With Victor Frankenstein, he had no doubts. The whole movie, he has very little doubt, which was a very freeing thing to play, up until the moment of creation. And then after that, it's kind of all doubt, and that's when he kind of goes in within himself and ossifies. But this - Josh is very different. Josh is mostly doubt and mostly reactionary. You know, he's constantly trying to control the situation, which is what a lot of these GMs do, as well. And he says, like, that, I let people win all the time. That's what I do.

And I remember talking to somebody that has the job, and he said, you know, I go, and he wants me to play tennis with him, and I'm a really good tennis player. And we get a pro to come on as well, and we play. And I'm like, do you let him win? And he's like, of course, I have to let him win. Like, not by a bunch, but I can't destroy his time there. You know, that's not the point. So I just found that very interesting, and - you know, and how little of a personal life one has in that situation. You know, it all gets mushed and melded together.

MOSLEY: You did research. You spoke with someone who really has that job.

ISAAC: I did. Yeah. Yeah. I did, with a couple people. It was - it's a very strange, foreign world to me, although I did work at a golf club for a few months when I was 16. But it was more like - there was a lot more - it was more, like, weddings that would happen in this small golf club, and I was a bit more of, like, a waiter. But it was - yeah. I heard a lot of the same wedding songs over and over again and had to get out of there. But, you know, I was like - you could imagine some - you know, that's about the age that Josh was when he started. And he decided, no, this is my way in. And, you know, I did it in Lake Worth, Florida. This is in Montecito, very different vibe. But I think he really sees, like, I've got something. And I've got something special, and people like me. And I understand people. And I understand how to make them feel good. And I think, yeah, he sees a way into this life.

MOSLEY: There's a clip I want to play that kind of shows a little bit of the dirty work in the background and also his own issues that he's dealing with. So in this clip, he's on the golf course with one of the younger workers in the club, Ashley, who's played by Cailee Spaeny. And she's one of the young employees who witnessed that explosive fight between you and your wife in the show. And in this scene, Josh is nervous that Ashley and her boyfriend will tell people about the fight, so he's trying to bribe her. Let's listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "BEEF")

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) You know what? We never thanked you guys for bringing back the wallet. So Linds really should've given this to him, but...

CAILEE SPAENY: (As Ashley Miller) Oh, gosh.

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) There you go.

SPAENY: (As Ashley Miller) You don't have to do that.

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) No, please, I insist.

SPAENY: (As Ashley Miller) Oh, no, no, no. I really can't.

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) Come on, please. You guys get tips all the time. It's fine.

SPAENY: (As Ashley Miller) Not all the time, no.

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) Really? OK, OK. OK. Ashley, you know our members pay a lot of money to come here, 300K initiation fee. Did you know that?

SPAENY: (As Ashley Miller) Yeah, I know. It's so crazy.

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) Yeah, it's so crazy, right? Do you know why they pay so much to come here?

SPAENY: (As Ashley Miller) The golf?

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin, laughter) Yeah. The golf, the courts, the exclusivity. The discretion.

SPAENY: (As Ashley Miller) OK.

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) People need a place where they can feel safe, where they can pretend everything is OK. It's the land of make-believe. Do you follow?

SPAENY: (As Ashley Miller) I think so. Yeah.

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) Do you, though? Because, like, when your fiancé comes and visits my wife unannounced, I start to wonder, is everything OK? Do you not want to make-believe? Because if you don't, you know, I can find somebody who does.

SPAENY: (As Ashley Miller) No. No, no, I want to make-believe, sir.

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) Yeah?

SPAENY: (As Ashley Miller) Yes.

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) You do? Good.

(LAUGHTER)

ISAAC: (As Joshua Martin) That's great to hear, Ashley. OK. You're doing great. Keep up the good work, all right?

MOSLEY: That's my guest today, Oscar Isaac, in the new season of "Beef" with actress Cailee Spaeny. Lee Sung Jin has said he made the deliberate choice to make you and your wife millennials and the younger couple Gen Z. You guys talked about that, you and Carey Mulligan. Had you, before the conversation with Carey, reflected on the generational differences? You know, I think that...

ISAAC: Big time.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ISAAC: Yeah, I mean, it's like, that's what's also so fun about it. I mean, he's, you know - the satirical nature that Lee Sung Jin finds in this whole thing. And for us to be able to really explore that, you know, the things that are annoying about Gen Z and the things that are really annoying about millennials, all of these stereotypes, and to be able to kind of lean into some of those things unapologetically, like, kind of embrace the cringe. And also have compassion for those things. That's part of embracing it.

And, you know, the judgments, the way that he plays with the audience's judgments. You know, you form very quick judgments of these people because it's easy to because they're kind of horrible. And then suddenly, those expectations get turned on their heads because people start behaving in ways that - you know, I was just relating to you, and now you're doing something so awful, I don't even understand what's happening.

MOSLEY: Yeah. And then there's also then that understanding that, oh, my gosh, what would I do if I was in that situation? Because your character is stealing, but it's for his mom's medical bills, you know?

ISAAC: Right, so that's the thing. The thing that - when do we feel justified in doing whatever it takes to get ours, you know? That's the great T Bone Burnett, who did the music for Llewyn Davis. He's got a great line in one of his songs that's, nothing is as dangerous as belief. And, you know, when you believe you've been wronged, it entitles you to do whatever you want to make that wrong right.

And seeing how they - you know, they say, OK, well, up to a point, right? Up to this line. OK, this isn't - is this stealing? It's not - ish. But then it keeps moving. The bar keeps moving the more dire the circumstances get. And then when he sees - you know, I think he's somebody that believed in the system to a certain extent. Josh, he's made it to where he's at by working hard and by not, you know, cheating or not doing any of that stuff. And you just got to be good. Keep your head down, work hard, you're going to get what you want.

It's kind of that immigrant idea. He comes from an immigrant family. And then he gets to a certain point, and it's like, no. He realizes everybody is looking out for themselves, everyone's cheating, especially the clients of this club. And we have a right to get ours as well. And it's - I remember, as we were rehearsing, I was like, OK, you know, in spiritual terms, it's like, oh, wait, there isn't a god. So it doesn't matter what we do, right?

MOSLEY: Oh.

ISAAC: This kind of idea. There's no big eye in the sky watching that's going to - you know, it's keeping a list of did I do it right or did I do it wrong. And so that, it's like, oh, no one's watching. Well, then why? Why? Why am I doing the right thing? For whose benefit?

MOSLEY: If you're just joining us, my guest is Oscar Isaac, talking about his role in the new season of "Beef" on Netflix. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF FINNEAS O'CONNELL'S "COLD OPEN")

MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. And today, I'm talking with Oscar Isaac, star of the second season of the Netflix series "Beef," where he plays Josh, a country club manager whose polished exterior is hiding a crumbling marriage and a financial secret. Isaac was also recently nominated for a Golden Globe for his role as Victor Frankenstein in Guillermo del Toro's "Frankenstein," an epic, operatic retelling of Mary Shelley's classic novel that follows an obsessive, defiant scientist whose experiment in creating life and death spirals into tragic consequence.

OK, Oscar, I want to get into "Frankenstein" for a moment. And you have called - I've heard you a few times call del Toro's "Frankenstein" a Mexican melodrama. And I have never heard it described that way. What made it that?

ISAAC: Well, Guillermo, 'cause he is - you know, he wanted to approach it that way and invited certainly me and all of us to approach it that way, which was - you know, for him, it was a very autobiographical telling, at least in the expression of the film. And yeah, it was just the way that we would approach every day. There was kind of this maximalist thing that was happening, but that was deeply, deeply felt. I mean, it's like listening to a corrido, you know? It's like mariachi music, where it's so passionate and because it's just, like, a - such a deep, deep expression of both and - expression and celebration of both joy and pain at the same time. So I think it was that kind of point of view that was very exciting.

We have said that we spoke exclusively in Spanish to one another, which was so nice for me. I hadn't had that experience, certainly not with a director. I mean, it was really just with my mom and my aunts (laughter). So it felt like a real familial thing to do. And it's my mother tongue. So there was just something that just went deeper. It just went to some other part of my brain that usually isn't accessed in that way. And so that...

MOSLEY: Can you describe it? - 'cause I've heard that from people before, especially around language like Spanish. And your first time actually being directed in Spanish, did it unlock or add a dimension?

ISAAC: It did. I think it was just, like, a directness and a simplicity. Even with me, you know, my vocabulary is not great, you know, maybe eighth or ninth grade, maybe, and - Spanish. And so - but I would - you know, I would just - no matter what the question was, I would force myself to just express it in Spanish to him. And there was something about having to find the simplest way of saying what I wanted to say that - I don't know. It was a very interesting experiment. And since then, we speak nearly every day. And yeah, I've gained this incredible family member.

I mean, it's - he's so passionate. I also describe him as the Mexican Buddha. You know, he has such wisdom and such generosity and zero pretension, but also cares deeply about the work that he does as well. So it's just - you know, he's just an incredible human being and a real advocate for other people, an advocate for other people's work. He doesn't ever trash anyone's work or speak negatively. I just found him to be an incredible example of how to be a person in this world, how to be a man, how to be an artist.

MOSLEY: That sounds special to now have this daily friendship...

ISAAC: Yeah.

MOSLEY: ...With a director. Is that common for you?

ISAAC: I mean, not like this. This has been a - this, like - this is a real family member of mine now. Like, there's a real closeness. And I have definitely gotten - become friends with a lot of the people I've worked with. You know, it is such an intimate setting, and you go to deep places. And that's one of the things that is really special about this work. You know, we are carny folk. We are. We're circus people, but, like, we need to - we hold onto each other because it is such a strange bubble to be in. And it's such an elusive thing that we're searching for, that we're trying to find together. And it's often a very humiliating experience. It's a humbling experience.

MOSLEY: To be an actor?

ISAAC: Yeah, to be an actor, I think, to be an artist, but particularly to be a performance artist, you know, to - your own self, your body and your voice, that's the materials that you're working with, right? That's the high-wire act, I think, is watching somebody battle their own ego and embarrassment and - you know, and some people do it effortlessly, and other people do lots of other wild things to battle that. And to do that with a character with incredible writing or (inaudible). All of that adds to this kind of astounding feat, at least for me when I watch it. Thinking about it, I'm like - those great performances where you're like, how is that happening? - and knowing how hard it can be to allow oneself to kind of get out of the way to let something happen, you know?

MOSLEY: Our guest today is award-winning actor Oscar Isaac. We'll be right back after this short break. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley, and my guest today is actor Oscar Isaac. He stars in Season 2 of the Netflix series "Beef," where he plays Josh, a country club manager whose polished exterior hides a crumbling marriage and the fact that he's stealing money from his employer. Throughout his career, Isaac has moved between intimate indie films and global franchises, breaking out in "Inside Llewyn Davis. He's also starred as Poe, an X-wing pilot in the "Star Wars" sequel trilogy, and as Duke in "Dune." In 2021, he earned an Emmy nomination for his performance opposite Jessica Chastain in HBO's "Scenes From A Marriage."

Oscar Isaac is of Guatemalan and Cuban descent. He spent the first years of his life in Washington, D.C., before moving to Miami. Recently, a documentary about the 2017 Public Theater production of "Hamlet" has been making its way to audiences. It captures a deeply personal period in Isaac's life when his mother was dying. His first child was about to be born, and his wife, Elvira, was filming.

Your wife filmed this life-changing year of you. And before we get into it a little bit more, I just want to know how it feels to have this most intimate chapter of your life now available for audiences to watch.

ISAAC: Well, when you put it that way...

(LAUGHTER)

ISAAC: ...Horrible. No, it's a - I - you know, there's been enough time that's gone that it's - I feel happy. I think it's a miracle that it exists, is really how I feel about it. When all these things were happening - you know, originally, we started the workshop. Sam Gold, who directed it, and I had wanted to do "Hamlet" for a long time. We worked on the scenes when we were at school together. And all the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern scenes - we kind of did them all as a little one-act play. And we always talked about...

MOSLEY: In school? At Juilliard?

ISAAC: At Juilliard, yeah. And we talked one day about us doing it one day. And so, finally, it was the moment we were getting it all together. And Elvira, who's such a great documentarian - and we were filming a lot at the time. We were living together and had been together for a while, and that was kind of something that we would do. I would make music, and she'd film. And she's like, well, why don't I - I'll film the workshop. And she started to, and then my mother got sick. She was pregnant, and she just kept filming. And as she kept filming, I said - she said, I just don't know what else to do. It's just - it's like her version of journaling. And I said, OK. But you got to know that these are maybe just home movies. Like, no one's ever going to see this. She's like, I - of course. Of course.

And so that kind of was the understanding - that this is something that she needed to do for herself because this is her - happening to her life as well. And so that's - she kept on, and she kept doing it, and she kept filming. And it was challenging in many ways. You know, we got married shortly after. And it was difficult because - with the union rules to be able to film rehearsals, and I sort of receding as the play went on 'cause - also 'cause of my voice and just because I didn't have anything to give when I'd come home and have my wife waiting with a camera. And so she put it away after a while.

And then about a year and a half ago, she took the hard drives out and started looking at it and slowly started piecing things together, and eventually put together this really beautiful documentary about a group of people coming together to make an impossible thing and how strange it is, you know, this off-Broadway play. You know, it's - sure, it's "Hamlet." But, it's, you know, the peek behind the curtain of kind of what it costs to do this stuff. For me, I say it feels almost like a film about a band making an album. You know, it's very much about a place and a time. But it's - yeah. It's a - it is. It's very intimate, and it's revealing. But I think it's revealing in a way that's hopefully useful for people that are interested in dedicating their life to being artists.

MOSLEY: I want to play, actually, a clip from the doc if you don't mind. And it's a moment between you and the director, Sam Gold, this director of "Hamlet." And you guys are talking about how you are processing the grief of your mother, but also how you process life. Let's listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "KING HAMLET")

ISAAC: We do. We do, or definitely, I do. I do because it's the only way that I try to find - is I find meaning, is, like, through...

SAM GOLD: Yeah.

ISAAC: ...Through - the play is the thing. I mean, I literally was, like, sobbing. And then the moment that I was able to think about the play a little bit, it got me out of that.

GOLD: Yeah.

ISAAC: And it's like, literally, the play is the only salvation that I could find, is to think about the play...

GOLD: Yeah.

ISAAC: ...Is that she went through everything that...

GOLD: That just...

ISAAC: ...As a character, you could.

GOLD: Yeah.

ISAAC: Then it talks about, like, she'd - all those...

GOLD: All of it.

ISAAC: ...Things. Like, the lucidity, like, the funniness, the - then the screaming about dreams and the distrust of the people that she loved most and then trying to reconcile to some place of peace by the end, you know? It was like - it was - I - all of it. Everything.

GOLD: Yeah. So you were actually confronting that?

ISAAC: Yeah.

MOSLEY: That was my guest, Oscar Isaac, along with director Sam Gold, in the new documentary "King Hamlet."

Oscar, what an extraordinary connection between the play "Hamlet" and your mother's experience, her last days.

ISAAC: You know, it's funny. I listen to that, and I - there's - I hear two things. One that I find positive, which is certainly, that's what work and creative work and art and these things - that they do. They can help us. They give architecture to some things that feel so formless and scary and hard to understand and comprehend. You know, to be able to see, you know, to - within a week of my mother becoming quite lucid and then traveling through all these different versions of different weather patterns of her selves, the many selves that she lived through her life, and then to see a connection with the journey of the character of Hamlet through that entire play - that was a really revealing and amazing thing, just to think of what an incredible piece of work "Hamlet" is, right?

But the other thing I hear that I have compassion for, that guy speaking that was me, is the feeling that I needed to be saved from feeling sad that my mom passed. You know, I kind of want to say to him, you don't need to get saved from that. It's OK. You can feel really sad that your mom's dead. It's a - you don't have to be rescued from that, this idea that, you know, I need to get out of my discomfort. And the only way I can get out of this horrible situation - I feel bad, so I need something to make me not feel bad, and that's my work. And that maybe that - and I know, you know, looking back, that's the first place I went. You know, parents getting divorced? I'm going to learn how to - I'm going to learn all the words to this play, you know? And suddenly, the play - you know, I feel alone at school? I do a play, oh, now I got all these, you know, friends and people are looking at me. And, you know, it was always a solution.

You know, it was always a solution, which has a great positive effect. Like, that's a good solution. There's lots of bad solutions to feeling lonely and bad, but that's a positive one. But when I hear that, I just - I can hear, maybe after a while, a bit of perhaps a maladaptation that is not necessary anymore.

MOSLEY: Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is actor Oscar Isaac. We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF LOS SUPER SEVEN SONG, "CALLE DIECISEIS")

MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR, and today, I am talking with award-winning actor Oscar Isaac. He stars in the new season of the Netflix series "Beef."

When did you realize fully that acting for you was more than a craft that you enjoyed and that you were good at, but also the way that you process life?

ISAAC: Pretty early on. Yeah, pretty early on. I think there was a sense of, I don't know how to be a good son, student, friend, boyfriend, you know, partner, any of those things, citizen. But I know that if I can figure out this part, if I can solve this puzzle, then everything will make sense.

(Laughter) And that, you know, that was pretty early on, where I would kind of accept. I'm like, I'm a little bit of a vulture of my own life. You know, there's - I'm in an experience. But there's always a little other part that's watching and, you know, eating up the little bits and pieces of real life that's happening and going to use that for something later.

MOSLEY: Sorry, I'm just thinking about what you're saying because I feel like you're talking about me (laughter).

ISAAC: Really? Do you relate to that?

MOSLEY: Yeah, I relate to it. I feel like I'm always living in - because, you know, I'm an observer.

ISAAC: Yeah.

MOSLEY: So I'm an observer of life.

ISAAC: Right.

MOSLEY: So I'm always observing, processing it, thinking about how it's also going to turn around and help me in my work.

ISAAC: Yeah.

MOSLEY: But, I mean, that's - but it's also authentically me. So I've kind of come to this place where I'm accepting it. But I used to feel a lot of guilt towards it.

ISAAC: Yes. I mean, I would feel a lot of guilt towards it. And then I did have to get to a place where I was like, well, I think I was like that first. And then this thing is like, well, you're like this. Here's something you can do with that thing that makes you feel guilty or weird, right? But I think it's also speaks to a sense of feeling on the outside all the time. You know, just feeling a little bit on the outside, on the edge of existence.

And that allows me to, like, never fully be there because, you know, I'm not really a participant. I kind of pretend I'm participating. But I'm always a little bit on the outside. And like I said, that was useful for a really long time. I'm less interested in that, kind of that way of being now, if anything, out of curiosity for something else. And I'm curious to see if - how badly the work's going to suffer from it.

MOSLEY: So you're not interested in that anymore. But, like, have you found a way to take yourself out of that way of being? I'm asking for a friend.

(LAUGHTER)

ISAAC: Yeah. I don't know. I mean, without, yeah, getting so into all, you know, the...

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ISAAC: ...The therapy of all that stuff.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ISAAC: But certainly, you know, therapy helps a lot. Meditation has helped a lot, just to quiet. You know, that's what I say. I think, oftentimes to their, you know, disappointment, when young actors come up to me like - what's one piece of advice? - I'm like, figure out how to train your mind to be your friend. You know, whatever that takes. I don't know if it's meditation or that. But finding a good relationship with your mind where it's a friendly relationship, and it's not your enemy or your coach all the time, or your angry coach.

I think, for me, that's taken a long time, to really be aware of when I can say to whatever pattern is coming up, be like, thank you, but don't need that right now. Yeah, that's been a helpful way, and to be honest, has helped with the work as well. To just be - to have more space in my mind and not so much chatter allows me to be able to hear things better, and to be more present with my scene partner and to allow for other things to come up. Whether it's better in the end, as far as the finished product, but in the moment, it's a lot more - it's a much more enjoyable way of working.

MOSLEY: OK, before we wrap, I have to ask you about your music. People who follow your career know that you were a musician in your young life. And you're known for this character that you played, a folk musician from "Inside Llewyn Davis." But you revealed recently on "Late Night With Jimmy Fallon" that you and your sons have a band.

ISAAC: (Laughter).

MOSLEY: What's it called again?

ISAAC: Fleece.

MOSLEY: OK, that's really a punk rock name (laughter).

ISAAC: Fleece, featuring cool dude.

MOSLEY: (Laughter) Wait, who's the cool dude?

ISAAC: That's my oldest son, Eugene.

MOSLEY: Oh, OK.

ISAAC: He kind of, like - he's like, he's got his own thing. So he just, you know, we're one of the projects that he works with.

(LAUGHTER)

ISAAC: But they haven't as much lately. It's like, actually, they've got - you know, they're doing their drumming lesson right now. They're really into playing drums. I mean, they're so musical. But you know what? The bands, I got to be honest, it's a little on hiatus for the last couple of months. It's like, suddenly, they're just not as into jamming with dad. Maybe I got too - I think I got too into it.

MOSLEY: You think - yeah, because you know that happens. When parents get too serious about it.

ISAAC: Yeah, I just killed the vibe.

MOSLEY: I actually want to play a clip, two clips, actually, from that "Late Night" performance, you talking about it. The first clip is your son singing, followed by a clip of you singing the song that you guys put together. Let's listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

MADS: (Singing) Come and play Nintendo when you open the door. I just did the ring. You don't see the d*** tour (ph).

JIMMY FALLON: Yeah. Nice, bud. I love that. That's good.

ISAAC: Pretty good, right?

FALLON: I mean...

ISAAC: Yeah, that's it.

MOSLEY: And then here's you picking up the guitar.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE TONIGHT SHOW")

ISAAC: (Singing) Come and play Nintendo when you open the door. I just need the rain. You just need a d*** tour. I'm Mads. You think it is a place. You get locked from the world. You think it is a race. I'm gonna drum on the rain on top, I'm gonna drum till the rain it drops. I'm gonna drum. I'ma man it up. I'ma drum till my drums can't stop. Oh, my God. Good Lord. I can feel it down in my bod. Living as free as (inaudible). You can't pray 'cause you're (inaudible). Good night, dude. This the end of the song. Goodbye. Call it the best song you ever seen (ph).

(LAUGHTER)

MOSLEY: OK, now I know this is where you lost it. I think this is why Fleece broke up - because you were on "The Tonight Show."

ISAAC: Yeah, yeah. They're like, no, man, you killed it. You totally (laughter) - and not in a good way. Like, we're an underground punk band. You can't go on "The Tonight Show" and play something.

MOSLEY: Right. I know.

ISAAC: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

MOSLEY: You know, I mean, I love seeing that, though. That had to be really great to, like, have this connection with your sons from the place that you started to find your artistic voice.

ISAAC: Yeah. No, it is. It is. And like, you know, those are all his own lyrics, and to find a reason to do that and to play it - and playing it for them, I mean, they were laughing. They thought it was so fun. It's a really fun thing to share with them. It's something my dad shared with me. He played music all the time and would record music and had guitars and things around the house. And that was a real connection for he and I as well. We really bonded over that. And so I was like, I want to have instruments readily available at all times, just in case inspiration strikes, and they want to go down and play. And that's been a really lovely thing.

MOSLEY: Are you playing for yourself as well?

ISAAC: Sometimes. At times, yeah, I still do a bit for myself. It's interesting 'cause when I get a little extra low, I'm like, you know what? I haven't played in a while. And I play, and that feels really good.

MOSLEY: Oscar Isaac, it's been such a pleasure to talk with you, and thank you so much.

ISAAC: Thank you so much. Real pleasure.

MOSLEY: Oscar Isaac stars in Season 2 of the Netflix series "Beef." Coming up, TV critic David Bianculli reviews the new Apple TV series "Margo's Got Money Troubles." This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR. "Margo's Got Money Troubles," based on the 2024 novel by Rufi Thorpe, is now an eight-part TV series on Apple TV. It stars Elle Fanning, Michelle Pfeiffer and Nick Offerman. Our TV critic David Bianculli has this review.

DAVID BIANCULLI, BYLINE: "Margo's Got Money Troubles" is created for television by David E. Kelley who wrote or co-wrote several of the eight episodes. Kelley's impressive TV career goes all the way back to "L.A. Law," "Ally McBeal," "Picket Fences" and "Boston Legal." But more recently, he's made a specialty of adapting other writers' novels for TV. Those include "Margo's Got Money Troubles" by Rufi Thorpe, but also Kelley's adaptations of the novels, "Big Little Lies" and "Nine Perfect Strangers," both of which starred Nicole Kidman. She's in "Margo," too, playing a lawyer with a colorful background, but she's only one of many talented jewels in this show's crown.

Others include Kelley's wife, Michelle Pfeiffer, currently starring in "The Madison," Nick Offerman from "Parks And Recreation," "Devs" and "The Last Of Us," and veteran stars Greg Kinnear and Marcia Gay Harden. Appearing with all of them in the title role is Elle Fanning, who was so great as a comic Catherine the Great in the TV series called "The Great." Here, she plays Margo Millet, a promising first-year student at a California community college. Her eventually odious literature professor praises her writing, has an affair with her, gets her pregnant, then ghosts her, all within the show's opening episode. Margo decides she wants to have the baby anyway, which upsets her mother, Shyanne, a flamboyant woman, played by Michelle Pfeiffer.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "MARGO'S GOT MONEY TROUBLES")

MICHELLE PFEIFFER: (As Shyanne Millet) You know me well enough, when I get scared - God, when I got pregnant with you, I was terrified.

ELLE FANNING: (As Margo Millet) You kept me, a one-night stand from a guy who picked you up at Hooters. I mean, what would possess you?

PFEIFFER: (As Shyanne Millet) I thought he was the one - your dad.

FANNING: (As Margo Millet) Well, you didn't even know his name. I guess I'm going to have to tell Dad, by the way, if I decide to keep it. Promised that I'd keep him in the loop on the big stuff.

PFEIFFER: (As Shyanne Millet) Yeah, when was the last time you talked to him?

FANNING: (As Margo Millet) Not in a while. Closer to never than recently.

BIANCULLI: The dad, played by Nick Offerman, eventually shows up on Margo's doorstep. He's a former pro wrestler named Jinx, and his exploits inside the ring might sound like comic relief or a broad caricature. But like Margo's mother and Margo herself, these characters have depth and darkness and can be serious, as well as amusing. When Jinx returns to reunite with Margo after hearing of her pregnancy, he confesses that he's come straight from rehab after years of drug abuse.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "MARGO'S GOT MONEY TROUBLES")

FANNING: (As Margo Millet) How bad did it get?

NICK OFFERMAN: (As Jinx Millet) You know, I've had multiple surgeries on my spine over the years. Not taking the pain pills wasn't an option. Taking them as prescribed wasn't an option. Hoarding them, abusing them, taking a lot at once. And then it was heroin. But I am determined. I'm desperate not to go back to that place.

FANNING: (As Margo Millet) You know I love you. Do you know that, Dad?

BIANCULLI: The money troubles in the title mount up for Margo after her baby is born, and her unusual solution for paying the bills is to open an OnlyFans account. Some of the offerings and interactions on that site can be quite sexual and quite lucrative. Margo keeps it PG-rated, first by writing playful prose, then by appearing in still photos, and finally by producing and starring in saucy sci-fi-themed videos. Her goal is to keep her source of income a secret and completely apart from her private life, but that goal fails.

And because "Margo's Got Money Troubles" is as realistic as it is fanciful, the ramifications of her actions are real and sometimes painful. She experiences shaming, regret, even legal troubles, which I mention only because in a single courtroom scene playing an eccentric judge, actor Paul McCrane almost steals the show from all these other powerful players. As a judge in a David Kelley drama, he's as much fun as Ray Walston was in "Picket Fences."

Even the characters you expect to be peripheral or one-dimensional end up surprising you in this mini-series, and the dynamics of friends and family are equally complicated. Margo and Shayanne yell at each other a lot, but they also demonstrate a delightful mother-daughter bond. During a road trip to Vegas in a convertible, they sing along with abandon as the car stereo blares a vintage song - a song that somewhat poignantly describes them both.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "MARGO'S GOT MONEY TROUBLES")

FANNING: (As Margo Millet) Hey, here comes our part.

MICHELLE PFEIFFER AND ELLE FANNING: (As Shayanne Millet and Margo Millet, singing) And if we're victims of the night, I won't be blinded by the light. Just call me angel of the morning, angel. Just touch my cheek before you leave me, baby.

BIANCULLI: "Margo's Got Money Troubles" includes instances of casual nudity, but they never seem gratuitous. Fanning throws herself into this role in a way that's both vulnerable and empowering, and it's an enthralling performance to witness. Nicole Kidman doesn't show up until halfway through, but wow, is she worth the wait. And when she and Pfeiffer finally get to share the screen, "Margo's Got Money Troubles" is pure gold. There are so many strong performances here and so many rich characters that it's riveting from start to finish. And in between those two points is one wild and brazen emotional ride.

MOSLEY: TV critic David Bianculli reviewed the new Apple TV series "Margo's Got Money Troubles."

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

MOSLEY: On the next FRESH AIR, New Yorker staff writer Zach Helfand on the career of former pro wrestling executive Linda McMahon. As President Trump's secretary of education, she's embraced the mission to dismantle her department with gusto, sending half her employees layoff notices within a week of her confirmation. Helfand describes her style as that of a friendly grandmother wielding a hatchet. I hope you can join us.

To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram - @nprfreshair. FRESH AIR's executive producer is Sam Briger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nyakundi, Anna Bauman and Nico Gonzalez-Wisler. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show.

With Terry Gross, I'm Tonya Mosley.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.