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Other segments from the episode on October 2, 2024
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TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley, and today my guest is John Leguizamo. For the last four decades, we watched him go from a one-man show and stand-up comedian to television and TV actor, activist and now educator. His latest project, an ambitious docuseries on the history of Latinos, feels like an inflection point for a man who has spent his career asserting himself as a Latino American while also discovering his place in this country. The new docuseries now airing on PBS is called "Voces American Historia: The Untold History Of Latinos," which he co-created with director Ben DeJesus. It's like a textbook on screen with Leguizamo at the head of the class, exploring Latino contributions to the Americas over thousands of years. If this sounds familiar, that's because this series is an evolution of Leguizamo's 2018 one-man show called "Latin History For Morons," which aired on Netflix.
John Leguizamo is an Emmy and Tony award-winning performer who began doing stand-up in the '80s and gained critical acclaim for his one-man semi-autobiographical shows about growing up in Queens, including "Mambo Mouth" and "Freak," where Leguizamo portrayed dozens of characters from his life growing up in Queens, including friends, relatives and neighbors. He's performed in over a hundred films and television shows, including his breakthrough roles in '93 as Luigi in "Super Mario Brothers" and Brian De Palma's "Carlito's Way" as Carlito's nemesis, Benny Blanco from the Bronx. He also starred in "Moulin Rouge," and he currently hosts the MSNBC travel show "Leguizamo Does America."
John Leguizamo, welcome back to FRESH AIR.
JOHN LEGUIZAMO: Thank you, Tonya. What a pleasure to be here with you.
MOSLEY: John, I absolutely loved "Latin History For Morons." And for those who don't know it, in 2018, you did this one-man show on Broadway, where you essentially got onstage and traced 3,000 years of Latin history. And the idea was actually spawned from this discovery that your son was being bullied, and it almost feels like you were working out this idea for what is now this new docuseries. Is that what was happening? How did you come to this idea for "American Historia"?
LEGUIZAMO: Oh, Tonya, that's so true. I mean, the genesis was - basically, my son was in eighth grade, and he was doing the history project, and he was being bullied at the same time. And I wanted to help him with his project to be, you know, a good dad, get some brownie points from my wife. And I realized that there was no Latino contributions to the making of American history in his textbook. And so as super-sleuth dad, I got all these books on Latin history on Amazon and went to all the sites, and it was I that was changed - my molecules. When I found all this information - incredible, countless facts and data about our contributions to making of the U.S. and the world - I became a different person - from being - feeling small to feeling like a giant.
MOSLEY: Well, John, your entire career, as I said in the introduction, you've kind of been asserting your Latinoness (ph). You've been the person who has been speaking about, like, this is who we are, and these are our contributions. For this documentary, though, you all choose three different time periods, and I'm really curious how you decided to choose them because, as I think I've heard you say, there is no Ken Burns doc or Discovery Channel show or even textbooks. I mean, you went to Amazon to find some of these books, but a lot of the history that is in this documentary many of us have never heard before.
LEGUIZAMO: Tonya, you're so right. I mean, John Hopkins University and UnidosUS - sorry - did a study and found that 87% of Latino contributions to the making of the U.S. are not in history textbooks. So that's what's in this show, that 87% that's missing. When I did the show, I wanted to be like Latino culture was on trial, and I wanted to have evidence. I wanted to have facts. I wanted to have testimonies. I wanted to have quotes. I wanted to have evidence to support this because there's a lot of deniers, and they're going to be deniers about our contributions. So I wanted to be fact-check-proof.
And so I got these historians, these experts, these archaeologists to be on camera with me. I got all these allies from my 40 years in the business as allies to come and make these quotes come to life 'cause there's not a lot of footage. The conquest - there's not a lot of footage of the 15- and 1600s. So I had to get quotes, as many - and I pulled as many as I could. And I got Bryan Cranston and Liev Schreiber and Benjamin Bratt and Ethan Hawke and Laurence Fishburne and Rosario Dawson to make them come to life - incredible allyship, and it warmed my heart. I mean, the facts are astounding.
MOSLEY: Right. You're like a walking textbook now. And what I also feel from you is kind of this phenomenon that always happens is once you see it, you can't unsee it. So...
LEGUIZAMO: True, true.
MOSLEY: Like, you're - you really sound like a man on a mission.
LEGUIZAMO: Yeah, I'm like the Rain Man of Latin data and facts (laughter), and I'm OK with that. I'm nerding out on you - I know - and on your public, but these facts are - they change your chromosomes. They change your DNA. You know, you go - you're a young Latin man or young Latin woman in America, and you're growing up here, and there's nothing in literature that reflects you, or history, textbooks or math, and you feel very small.
And then when I start reading these facts about our contributions and our empires, that our empires were bigger than European empires, that they were more advanced than European empires, it blows your mind that we - that the Aztecs had toilets with running water, that they bathe three times a day, that the Incas had superior brain surgery, that the modern world hasn't - hadn't achieved till after the Civil War. They had anesthesia that we gave the world. We had suspension bridges. We had - Incas had binary code back then, before computers today. These are some of the findings you get, and you're like, wait a minute. What? How was this kept from me? Why is this kept from me? And then you start to understand that he who writes the history textbooks controls society. Plato said he who tells the stories controls society, and, you know, it's been true, and it's intuitive truth as well.
MOSLEY: Can we do a little Latino history 101 as we continue to discuss this docuseries? Because for the people, I think it's important for us to note you share the distinction between Latino and Hispanic, especially as it pertains to how you approached this history in the docuseries. You do this at the top of every episode. Can you very quickly share that distinction?
LEGUIZAMO: Well, thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, there's a huge distinction, and we Latinos are grappling with our identity, you know, on a daily basis and trying to do the best we can because we haven't done as well as we should have, like, including our Afro-Latinos and giving tribute to our Indigenous Latino side, which is a huge part of our DNA. Hispanic means you speak Spanish, and for the most part Hispanics are from Spain. But we are all Hispanics because we all speak Spanish. But Latino means you're not from Spain, means you're from Latin America, means you were colonized, means you're from the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America and South America, and that includes Brazil and Haiti. We're all Latinos who experienced a lot of oppression, slavery, the stealing of our incredible wealth and land wealth and exploitation for 500 years. That's what Latino means to me. And that means that you're a part of, like - sorry.
MOSLEY: And Latino is African, Indigenous and Spanish...
LEGUIZAMO: Yes.
MOSLEY: ...By blood.
(SOUNDBITE OF FINGERS SNAPPING)
LEGUIZAMO: I'ma (ph) snap to that because that's exactly what it - I feel Latino is. The majority of us are mestizo, Indigenous and Afro Latino. We have a mixture of all that, and that's Latino. There are white Latinos, but, you know, they're a very small percentage, but they do run things in Latin America. And that's where - you know, with it, the colorism happens, and racism in our own countries exists.
MOSLEY: You know, another topic that you take on in this doc is to chart how language - in particular, Spanish - was weaponized. I mean, you actually go as far back as when the Europeans interacted with Native Americans who spoke their own language. Over time, we saw this enter the school system, where children were separated from their Spanish language. And Professor Velez-Ibanez talked about a memory growing up in the Southwest that was especially painful for him. I want to take a moment to listen to what he had to say. Let's listen.
LEGUIZAMO: Yes.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "VOCES AMERICAN HISTORIA: THE UNTOLD HISTORY OF LATINOS")
CARLOS VELEZ-IBANEZ: Segregation has many implications and many consequences. In our particular case, the Spanish language has been used as a racist trope. And for those of us who were in school, we were forbidden to speak Spanish. And for every word of Spanish that you spoke, we were hit with a bat that had been shaved with holes at the end. So you went home, and your mother might bathe you when you were 5 years old. And she asked, well, you know, what are those marks on your rear end? And I told her. I said, I got spanked. Well, did you misbehave? I said, I don't know, but I didn't know why I was being spanked.
What occurs is that the child then learns to associate pain with the language that the child is speaking. Now, that language is internalized very early on. The language that's spoken by a mother to her child when she's cooing her child - (speaking Spanish) - has a deep implication, because you learn then that you've got to hate this language that your mother raised you upon.
MOSLEY: That was Carlos Velez-Ibanez, professor of Transborder Studies at Arizona State University, from the new documentary produced and hosted by my guest today, John Leguizamo. And, John, he is touching on the mental health toll of being separated from your language. You're Colombia-born and Queens-raised, and we're going to talk about that. But what was your relationship with the Spanish language growing up?
LEGUIZAMO: Well, what he said was so touching and so painful to reveal that I learned in this documentary series - and what he's talking about happened all over the Southwest and the West, because - you know, and it was all Mexico, Texas, Arizona. They have our names, you know - New Mexico. Arizona's dry land. Nevada's snowy land. California's beautiful temperate zone. Jim Crow laws were for Latinos as well. They called them Juan Crow laws. And you would see these signs that said, no Negroes, no dogs and no Mexicans. We were at the bottom of the horrible...
MOSLEY: Underneath the dogs.
LEGUIZAMO: Yes, underneath the dogs. Because we were the majority of the population all over the West and the Southwest. It had all just been Mexico, you know, from 1830s. It stopped being Mexico when we were invaded. So I had a different sort of understanding of Spanish because I didn't grow up in the Southwest. I grew up in the Northeast and in the East Coast, and we Latinos are a little younger population here. And my parents immigrated here, so they had a huge pride of Spanish. They would force us to speak Spanish at home, you know? And I was very reluctant 'cause all I saw on the media and in my classes was English. So I did not want to speak Spanish, and they would force me to speak Spanish. And now I regret being such an obstinate child because now I want to recoup my Spanish.
MOSLEY: So when you were going to school as a young man in these English-speaking schools, where everybody's speaking English, did you ever feel shame about Spanish?
LEGUIZAMO: Oh, absolutely. You felt it. But then I would go back to my neighborhood, you know, and everybody was Latino - and my family, obviously - and spoke Spanish. And then you had this confusion as to a sense of pride and a sense of shame because all you saw was negative imagery of Latinos in the news, and you were absent in school. Like, you weren't - there was no pictures of Latinos anywhere in the history textbooks, in literature, in math, so you felt small.
And you had to navigate all this - all these feelings, these complex feelings - as a young man, and it made me act out. You know, I was a problem child, because you have a certain intelligence, and yet you don't want to be clowned as a teenager. You don't want to - so you start rejecting your own culture, and you start acting out because you don't feel like you fit in anywhere.
MOSLEY: Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest today is John Leguizamo. We're talking with him about his new docuseries on PBS called "VOCES American Historia: The Untold History Of Latinos." We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF KEITH JARRETT TRIO'S "CONCEPTION")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR, and today, my guest is actor, comedian and activist John Leguizamo. He has a new three-part documentary series now airing on PBS called "VOCES American Historia: The Untold History Of Latinos."
OK, I want to talk to you about politics for a minute. You're famous for saying that Christopher Columbus was the Donald Trump of the new world, which, of course, had many people gagging. So you have no problem giving your opinion about politics. Right now, according to an NBC/CNBC poll, Vice President Kamala Harris leads former President Trump with Latino voters 54% to 40%. And Democrats, we know, usually have a larger percentage edge than this. At least, in the last four presidential cycles, they have. You have been very vocal in saying that if Harris wants the Latino vote, she's got to campaign for it. Do you feel that she should be doing more?
LEGUIZAMO: She's got to do more because Trump is doing more. The Republicans are doing more. They're coming aggressively for Latinos. They did it against Biden and Hillary. They come to our Spanish stations. They buy ads. They go on WhatsApp. You know, Trump signed those checks that went out that - Latinos believed he actually did sign them and that he does have that money and, if he becomes president, that he will give them those checks. So Kamala needs to knock on our doors, come into our towns and talk to us.
You know, the thing that Latinos care about is economics. So with what's going on, you know, Trump is blaming Kamala for inflation, for the prices at the grocery store, for the cost of housing. So she needs to speak on that and come into our neighborhoods, because we're winnable. We're gettable, but you have to court us. We're not going to come there just 'cause you want us. You have to win us over, and you got to do it in all the states that are vulnerable, you know? You got to do it, and you got to include our grassroots organizations that are always ignored. These young Latinas and Latinos who are in Arizona, Texas, Nevada - you got to engage them, you got to give them money, and you got to include them. They work tirelessly, and they'll give you so much bang for your buck.
MOSLEY: You know, what's interesting for me, John, is that this documentary that we're talking about, "American Historia" - it actually gives context, in many ways, to where we are now, in particular, with the immigration debate. And I was wondering, how do you see your work intersecting with this larger political debate? Because it is very political to say, hey, everyone, the narrative that we've all been taught - there's another perspective here, and in some instances, what we've all been taught is straight up not true.
LEGUIZAMO: In terms of immigration, you know, I went into a pyramid that's 2,000 years old in Teotihuacan, Mexico, and in a place that no one's allowed 'cause it's very sacred. It's a tomb, and the walls are painted with mercury. And it's red, and it's poisonous. And there is gold dust put everywhere and silver mercury in bowls, so when you came in with torches, you were in the underworld, and it was splendiferous. And what we found there was turquoise from Arizona, jade from Honduras. We'd been trading. That was a - the whole Southwest was a trading zone, you know? It was the cradle of civilization for all Indigenous peoples in North, Central and South America, so it's always been a porous border.
And, you know, we caused a lot of the problems in Central and South America that's causing all these people to have to escape their countries and have to go to this border. So, you know, it's a very complicated issue. Kamala's going strong against immigration and that she's going to be tough on it. And she has to to win this election, because even immigrants don't feel empathy for other immigrants. You know, I'm different. And, you know, I'm an artist. I have empathy for everybody. I'm a parent, and every child in the world is my child, and that's how I feel, but not everybody feels that way.
MOSLEY: You mentioned how some immigrants don't have empathy for other immigrants, specifically as it pertains to this issue around immigration. Can you elaborate on that? And why do you think that is?
LEGUIZAMO: Some immigrants feel - I guess they feel empowered by going against other immigrants. I guess they feel more American or more - less othered if they attack others. I think there's a syndrome of that. And some immigrants are afraid of immigrants taking their jobs, because those are the jobs that they might take. They're not coming for white jobs. Forget that. I mean, nobody - the jobs Latinos are doing nobody wants. That's why they're doing it. And that's why we need immigrants, because immigrants fuel America. They're doing the essential labor.
You know, the Mexican immigrants, the Central American immigrants that died on the Maryland bridge - they were doing that infrastructure work. We built Katrina back - after Hurricane Katrina, we built Louisiana back. There was mostly Honduran and Mexican laborers, and then they got shafted. You know, they sent ICE on them, and they wouldn't pay them. But, you know, we're doing the work. We're feeding America. We're doing all that labor that nobody wants. It's jobs. I mean, America does not function without Latino immigrants. It just doesn't. It never has and never will.
MOSLEY: A lot of immigrants of color support Trump. And what do you think it is that Latinos in particular - of course, knowing that Latinos are not a monolith - but what do you think the appeal is for Trump?
LEGUIZAMO: 'Cause he lies. He lies. He says crazy things that he can't do, he won't do, but they believe it. They believe that he's going to cut taxes, that he's going to make taxes disappear. He spews so many lies, and they stick, and Latino immigrants and Latinos believe it. And that's the problem.
MOSLEY: Our guest today is actor, comedian and activist John Leguizamo. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "TABACA Y RON")
RODOLFO Y SU TIPICA RA7: (Singing in Spanish).
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. And today, my guest is actor, comedian and activist John Leguizamo. He and director Ben DeJesus have created a three-part docuseries now airing on PBS called "VOCES: American Historia: The Untold History Of Latinos," which explores the history and contributions of Latino people in America.
Leguizamo is known for his versatile acting, having appeared in over 100 films in both dramatic and comedic roles, including "Carlito's Way," "Moulin Rouge!" and his one-man shows on Broadway, "Mambo Mouth," "Freak" and "Latin History For Morons." His new play, "The Other Americans," begins its run in D.C. this month. In it, Leguizamo stars as Nelson Castro, a Colombian Puerto Rican laundromat owner determined to give his family a better life, which comes at a cost.
John, earlier this month, at the 76th Primetime Emmy Awards, you spoke about the importance of representation in Hollywood. And you mentioned how you grew up seeing white actors playing characters of Latin descent and how when Latinos were in movies and shows, they were often playing a stereotype. I want us to listen to a little bit of it. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
LEGUIZAMO: I'm John Leguizamo, and I'm one of Hollywood's DEI hires.
(LAUGHTER)
LEGUIZAMO: That's right. DEI - the D is for diligence. The E is for excellence. The I is for imagination.
(CHEERING)
LEGUIZAMO: And everyone in this room tonight has dedicated their lives to diligence, excellence and imagination. So we are all DEI hires. And man, what a beautiful and diverse room this is tonight. (Non-English language spoken) 'cause when I was growing up in Jackson Heights, Queens, a scrawny little wannabe gangster - you're not from Queens, don't lie - I didn't know that people like me could be actors. At 15, I didn't know the word representation. Actually, there were a lot of words I didn't know back then. But I saw a lot of brownface. I saw Marlon Brando play a Mexican in "Viva Zapata!" and Al Pacino play Cuban gangster Tony Montana. And Natalie Wood play a Puerto Rican beauty named (singing) Maria.
Everybody played us except us. I didn't see a lot of people on TV who looked like me. Of course, there was always Ricky Ricardo. Lucy, you got a lot of 'splaining (ph) to do. Eh, eh, eh. And I know some of you remember the Looney Tunes cartoon mouse, Speedy Gonzalez, the fastest mouse in all of Mexico. (Speaking Spanish). And his lethargic, useless sidekick Slowpoke Rodriguez. Sorry, Senor Pussycat, I can't play with you no more. It's time for my siesta. And that's how we saw ourselves because that's all we saw of ourselves.
MOSLEY: That was my guest, John Leguizamo at this year's Primetime Emmy Awards, talking about representation in Hollywood. John, what was the reception to that speech?
LEGUIZAMO: Wow. It was electric and seismic. I was a little nervous, you know, 'cause I was saying a lot of edgy things, and luckily, the Emmy committee relented and allowed me because Cris Abrego, the new chairman of the Emmy's, is Latino, and he fought for me to be able to say these things.
MOSLEY: Did you have to show them what you were going to say before you said it?
LEGUIZAMO: Yes.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
LEGUIZAMO: I had to, and they had to be approved, and there had to be a lot of conversations 'cause they wanted to keep it light. They didn't want people to feel bad. So I made it as funny and light as possible, but I still got my points across, which was powerful. And I saw, you know, people in the audience, you know, nodding, hooting, hollering, snapping back, and I was like, oh, my God. I got them. And it was quiet sometimes. You could hear a pin drop and then the laughter, and it was wild. It was such a beautiful experience.
MOSLEY: You know, there are so many movies that we grew up with that - they're just iconic, you know? Thinking about when I was a kid, like, "Scarface" - all of the guys I grew up with loved that. It was playing all the time. And I wonder, like, what is your relationship with some of those movies today that really did, like, sit in those stereotypes? - you know, Mexican bandits and Westerns or the "West Side Story" that cast all white actors to play Puerto Ricans and "Scarface."
LEGUIZAMO: Yeah, you know, at the time, I was like - you know, I was - I didn't feel - you know, they made me feel like I didn't deserve to be the leads in our own stories. I was felt - I was made to feel that. Now that I'm a grown man, it's not OK. I'm enraged by it. You took an opportunity of a Latin person. You know, Antonio Banderas playing Latinos - he's not Latino - he's a white European colonizer. It's not his fault. I'm not saying that.
I mean, it's because we don't have Latino executives who say, look, you're not Latino, why are you taking Latino roles? Pacino, you're a white Italian. Why are you taking - playing a Puerto Rican in "Carlito's Way" and playing a Cuban in "Scarface"? Those should be Latino roles, and it should be Latinos playing them. And I'm going to say something controversial. This Menendez story being done right now...
MOSLEY: On Netflix.
LEGUIZAMO: There's only one real Latino. There's only one real Latino in that cast. It's a Latino story, a horrible Latino story, but there's plenty of Latino actors to play the dad. I love Javier Bardem. I think he's an incredible actor, but he's not Latino. He's a white Spaniard. And a little bit of brownface going on - and that's not cool. I'm going to do, like, Kendrick Lamar going after Drake.
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
LEGUIZAMO: You know, I'm sorry, but those roles should be to David Zayas, Benjamin Bratt. There's tons - Yul Vazquez. There's tons of Latino actors and talent out there. Put Latinos in Latino roles. Let's not do a disservice. I see so much Latin talent being laid to waste, dreams allowed to desiccate. Use our Latin talent.
MOSLEY: You've talked quite a bit over the decades about some of the roles you were offered early on in your career, the stereotypical roles like robber No. 2 and a gang member, stuff like that.
LEGUIZAMO: Yeah.
MOSLEY: How did you get out of the trap of playing the stereotype? - because it seems that you found your lane and a way to, like, navigate that.
LEGUIZAMO: Yeah, it wasn't easy. You know, I was a idealistic young man. I believed in meritocracy, that talent would rise. But I was at NYU. You know, I was the only Latino kid, and I was there with some big stars, D. B. Sweeney and Andrew McCarthy. And they were going to five to 10 auditions a day, and I was going to one every five months for a gang member, a drug dealer, a murderer or a janitor. And I realized that, wow, they're - I don't have any - I don't have a shot, just because I'm Latino. And then there's this thing called a casting breakdown that would come out every Monday. And it was like Juan Crow, because it was, like, white actor, white doctor, white lawyer, white love interest, Latino drug dealer. And even if I asked my agents to put me up so they would see me, they wouldn't see me. So I knew my opportunities were not equal and were not fair. Even if I was as good-looking as Brad Pitt, even if I could write like William Shakespeare and Tennessee Williams, I would not be given that opportunity, because I was Latino.
And so I tried to find some other venues, and I found performance art. And there I started creating my first show, "Mambo Mouth." I would do all these characters, and then I realized, oh, my god - what I am saying, people are loving. And so I went to Wynn Handman's class, and he saw my monologues, and he loved them. And he put them onstage at the American Place Theatre, and the rest is kind of history. I got an incredible review in The New York Times. And then all of a sudden, my 70 fold-up seats and my loose-leaf paper program - you know, there was Al Pacino and Raul Julia and John F. Kennedy Jr., rest in peace. Everybody was coming down. You know, and then when Latin audiences found me - oh, my God, it was church, 'cause they would be crying and screaming and laughing. And it was wild, and that fueled me. That fueled me for my four decades in the business.
MOSLEY: You said it, but "Mambo Mouth," you basically depicted - was it, like, five or six characters onstage? And you've said that you felt like your body had been taken over, almost like shamanism. Can you explain what that was like? I mean...
LEGUIZAMO: (Laughter).
MOSLEY: ...At this point, you were, like, in your early 20s, right? And we're talking, like, late '80s, early '90s.
LEGUIZAMO: Yeah. So, I mean, I studied with some of the great acting teachers in the world - Herbert Berghof, Wynn Handman, Marcia Haufrecht and Lee Strasberg. And so I had great technique, and the technique of being a great actor is to lose yourself. And when you're writing, you lose yourself, and sometimes it's not even you. You're just a conduit. And if you can get out the way, it's magic, and it's kind of like religion. So when I was doing "Mambo Mouth" and it was rocking and rolling and I was loose and free, it was wild. You know, you basically - you're just following these impulses that you don't know where they're coming from, and you're writing these things that are just flowing through you. And you just have to step out of the way.
MOSLEY: Do you remember any of the voices from those characters that kind of come up today for you?
LEGUIZAMO: I mean, (as character) I don't do them as much as I used to. I used to do them all the time, and I don't do them as much.
(LAUGHTER)
LEGUIZAMO: I used to do all my voices all the time. I mean, that's all I did, was voices 24/7. I mean, I was living in a basement in Queens, and people thought I was having parties. They'd go, who are all the people coming to your house?
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
LEGUIZAMO: I'd go, no, it's just me talking to myself, keeping myself company (laughter). Yeah, I was kind of a lonely kid sometimes. And, you know, I don't do as many voices anymore, but I'm always acting. I'm always acting up a storm. I'm always cracking jokes.
MOSLEY: Our guest today is actor, comedian and activist John Leguizamo. We'll be right back after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF NONAME SONG, "BALLOONS (FEAT JAY ELECTRONICA & ERYN ALLEN KANE)")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR, and today, my guest is actor, comedian and activist John Leguizamo. He has a new three-part documentary series now airing on PBS called "VOCES American Historia: The Untold History Of Latinos."
You wrote in your memoir a few years ago - and I got to say the name of your memoir, because I also am just curious...
LEGUIZAMO: (Laughter).
MOSLEY: ...How you come up with titles, but your memoir was titled "Pimps, Hos, Playa Hatas, and All the Rest of My Hollywood Friends." You wrote in that memoir that your first audience was your family, by making them laugh as a kid. Do you remember when you first realized that you were funny?
LEGUIZAMO: Yeah, you know, it's fascinating, because, you know, I was the class clown. I was the clown at home. I was the cut-up in my neighborhood. And I took great pride in that, you know? Every time I made my father crack up or my family crack up, that was a big score for me. And when I made my friends laugh, forget it - that was everything...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
LEGUIZAMO: ...At house parties and whatnot. I mean, it was so incredible for me, and it fueled me. That's what kept me going as a young man. And it's all I lived for, was to make people laugh. And then when I...
MOSLEY: Were you doing impersonations?
LEGUIZAMO: I was doing impersonations. I would imitate family members. I would create characters. I would - at parties, I would put on costumes and whatnot. And on the street, I would just, you know, mimes - you know, mime a whole character and do a whole improv thing. But then my math teacher, Mr. Zufa, RIP - he said, you know, Mr. Lesqueezamo (ph), you...
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
LEGUIZAMO: ...Instead of creating problems, how about becoming a comedian? And I was a punk, so I said [expletive] you, but then I went home, and I was like, wait a minute. Maybe I can do something with my life. And I looked up in the Yellow Pages back then - for the young people, that's Google; that's how old I am - and I called on my analog phone, and I started taking classes with Sylvia Leigh. And that was the beginning of my acting career at 17.
MOSLEY: Wow. When you told your parents that - did you tell your parents - were they supportive of this?
LEGUIZAMO: Oh, they were not. I mean, you can't blame them. They were immigrant parents, working class. They didn't see no Latin people on film or onstage. They just thought it was a dead-end thing, that I was wasting my life, and they weren't very supportive at all. But I didn't care, you know? I was - you know, I was very independent, and I was very anti-authority, so I didn't listen to my parents. I did what I wanted to do.
MOSLEY: The thing is, though, if this is true, your father was an aspiring film director, right?
LEGUIZAMO: Yeah, but I don't know what happened to him (laughter). He was when he was 19. He went to Italy. And he studied in Cinecitta, where, you know, neorealism and, you know, all the greats - Fellini and Pasolini, all the -inis - were creating craft. But he must have changed his - I don't know if he felt competitive towards me or - I don't know. I think he just thought that this Latino kid, he's not going to make it.
MOSLEY: You've said growing up, you were too hood for the intellectual kids, too intellectual for the hood kids. Before you found acting and theater at 17, where did you fit? Where did you find your people?
LEGUIZAMO: Wherever I could (laughter). You know, I moved every year of my life till I was 15, so I always had to make new friends and be the new kid on the block. And so I got into a lot of fights and also tried to be as charming as possible 'cause I had no choice. I used my voices and my comedy to make friends, and, you know, I find friends in the park. You know, you find friends. Back then it was very different. You hung - if you hung out, you'd make some kind of friend. You know what I mean?
MOSLEY: There was this moment when you were a teenager, when you lived in Colombia for a year. What was that like?
LEGUIZAMO: Well, that was my parents trying to create their own wilderness program to save me.
MOSLEY: Really?
LEGUIZAMO: Yeah. So my parents extracted me from the neighborhood because I was hanging out with - you know, I wanted to be a gangster, and I - and there was a lot of gangs in my neighborhood - the Savage Skulls, the Nomads, the Spades, the Tomahawks. And I wanted to be a part of it. I wasn't just - I wasn't that good of a fighter, so they wouldn't let me in 'cause I was too nerdy. And my parents realized I was in a lot of trouble, and so they extracted me from the neighborhood and moved me to Colombia for a year. And then when I came back, they moved so I couldn't reassociate with those kids, and I guess they saved me. You know, I was very angry at them at the moment - at the time. But now looking back, they saved me, otherwise I wouldn't be where I am today.
MOSLEY: What was that experience being in Colombia for that year for you?
LEGUIZAMO: At first, I was very depressed and so angry at my parents for taking me out of a neighborhood where I was in my prime. I was - I had girlfriends galore. I was very popular. I was funny. I was dancing all over the place and getting attention. And they put me in Colombia, where I didn't speak Spanish enough. I didn't know these kids. These were all really wealthy Latino kids in the school they put me in, and we did not - I did not connect. But I had a lot of family there, and that was beautiful. That was a beautiful time for me with my family. I really connected with them and got an appreciation for Latin culture and Colombian culture, and so that was a reconnection with Spanish.
MOSLEY: You know, John, when I first saw you - gosh - 30-plus years ago on "House of Buggin'," I thought you were just so unapologetically you. Like, you were fully formed and understanding of your culture. And I'm just wondering, how do you think that young guy's life back then would be different if you had known the history that you know now?
LEGUIZAMO: Oh, my God. I would have been a different human being totally. I think I would have been much more rebellious (laughter).
MOSLEY: Yeah.
LEGUIZAMO: I would have been much more anti-authority and anti-society - much more so. I mean, I felt small, and I felt like I was only talking to my community and New Yorkers. And then when I started touring, I was like, wait a minute. What? When I got to Chicago, and there was a huge Puerto Rican and Mexican Cuban population and that the Black audiences also like what I was doing and the white audiences, I was like, wait. Wait a minute. What? And then I went to California, and there was a bigger Latin population. And then I went to Texas. I was like, wait. I'm accepted in Houston, Dallas, Corpus Christi, McAllen, El Paso. And I was like, wait a minute. My work transcends New York City, transcends being Colombian and being ghetto. It transcends. That's when I found my complete power.
MOSLEY: John Leguizamo, it was such a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for taking the time.
LEGUIZAMO: Oh, Tonya, it was a blast. Thank you for giving me this space and for giving me this platform and for being so prepared. Oh, my God. You rocked my world.
MOSLEY: John Leguizamo's new PBS series is called "Voces American Historia: The Untold History Of Latinos." Coming up, TV critic David Bianculli reviews the 50th season premiere episode of "Saturday Night Live." This is FRESH AIR.
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TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. "Saturday Night Live," the long-running late-night sketch show that's run on NBC for nearly half a century now, has big plans for its golden anniversary. Lorne Michaels, who has produced "SNL" for all but five of those years, has a three-hour live prime-time special set for February. A scripted movie based on the making of the show's first episode has just hit theaters. And Michaels is working on different detailed documentaries produced by both Questlove and Morgan Neville. But the spearhead of it all is the 50th season premiere episode of "SNL," which was broadcast live last Saturday night. Our TV critic David Bianculli has this review.
DAVID BIANCULLI, BYLINE: When "Saturday Night Live" premiered on NBC in the fall of 1975, Jean Smart wasn't a star yet. She had made her mark in regional theater and on Broadway, but it wasn't until the mid-'80s that she hit it big as one of the co-stars of the wonderful CBS sitcom "Designing Women," but she's been acting ever since. And earlier this month, she took home the Emmy for her starring role in the comedy series "Hacks." So she has the kind of history, as well as clout, that makes her the perfect host for the season opener of "SNL."
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JEAN SMART: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so, so very much. I can't tell you how honored I am to be hosting the premiere episode of Season 50.
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SMART: It truly is incredible to be here. I haven't gotten all dressed up and had hundreds of people clap for me in days...
(LAUGHTER)
SMART: ...Honestly. I remember watching the very first episode of "SNL" and thinking, someday I'm going to host that show.
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SMART: And this was the first Saturday that worked with my schedule.
(LAUGHTER)
BIANCULLI: Like any long-running TV series, "SNL" has ebbed and flowed over the years. But it's always remained significant and sometimes influential because of its constantly churning core of performers and writers. Its musical guests, decade in and decade out, reflect a mixture of the popular and the just rising to pop consciousness. And the guest hosts over 50 years have represented just the sort of excitement and inclusiveness you'd hope them to showcase. The 50th anniversary show's musical guest was Jelly Roll, who's made a lot of inroads in a lot of pop culture showcases. But on "SNL," he got to sing about something that was very serious to him and counted on the studio and TV audience to accept and absorb it.
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JELLY ROLL: (Singing) The broken glass of a bottle makes a jagged rock bottom. Right now I got two shaky hands, only one way to stop it. And I haven't touched a drop in seven hours, three minutes. Finally sobered up, I really want to quit quitting, sweating in an old church basement, wishing I was wasted. I never thought I'd say this - hello, my name's Jason.
(Singing) I've been losin' myself. I've been losin' my mind. I was standin' in the rain just trying to stay dry. I was so ashamed to be in this seat till I met a man who was 20 years clean. He said, evеrybody here's felt thе same defeat. Nobody walks through these doors on a winning streak.
BIANCULLI: The insanely gifted rep company comics, though, are the heart and soul of "SNL" and always has been. From John Belushi to Bowen Yang, the show has found ways to make performers blossom and explode. And nothing is more valuable to the show in terms of comedy or impact than its political sketches. "SNL" opened this season with a very extended one, establishing the new or returning players who would take on this year's political figures. Jim Gaffigan and Andy Samberg are among the new, but familiar-faced recruits, but Maya Rudolph, returning as Kamala Harris, has her impersonation nailed down. And so does a veteran "SNL" player returning to play, for the first time, the current president of the United States.
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MAYA RUDOLPH: (As Kamala Harris) We couldn't have gotten here without one man, and his name is Joe Biden. Get on out here, Joe Biden.
(CHEERING)
BIANCULLI: Yes, it was Dana Carvey who walked out towards the podium, to the delight of the crowd, shuffling like a slightly faster old-man Tim Conway on "The Carol Burnett Show." As soon as Carvey hit the mic, he started digressing in a way that was just as funny, and probably just as memorable, as the way he used to take on George H.W. Bush.
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DANA CARVEY: (As Joe Biden) Folks. That's right. A lot of people who forget I'm president, including me. Guess what? And by the way...
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CARVEY: (As Joe Biden) I think I did a pretty good job. I passed more bills than any president in history. But, folks, we still got work to do. No joke. I'm being serious right now. Come on.
BIANCULLI: It'll be tricky for the writers to hit the right comic and satirical tones for the remainder of this election. There's a lot going on, and some of it, on either side of the political fence, just isn't very funny. But "SNL" has a good cast this year with some young new additions. So I'm willing to just sit back, watch and hope for the best, just like I've been doing for nearly 50 years now.
MOSLEY: David Bianculli is a professor of television studies at Rowan University. He reviewed the premiere episode of the 50th Season of "Saturday Night Live." Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, we talk with economist David Wessel about the different plans that Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have for the American economy. Trump talks about high tariffs and deporting immigrants. Harris wants to tax the wealthy and provide direct help to families. I hope you can join us. To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at @nprfreshair. FRESH AIR's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer is Adam Staniszewski.
Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Ann Marie Baldonado, Sam Briger, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producers are Molly Seavy-Nesper and Sabrina Siewert. Susan Nyakundi directed today's show. With Terry Gross, I'm Tonya Mosley.
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