A roundup of holiday music includes offerings from Brad Paisley and others

TERRY GROSS, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. One of the most talked-about TV series now is the Apple TV series "Pluribus," created by Vince Gilligan. It stars my guest, Rhea Seehorn. You may know her as the co-star of "Better Call Saul," which was both a prequel and sequel to "Breaking Bad." Seehorn and "Pluribus" were just each nominated for a Golden Globe.

In "Pluribus," Seehorn plays Carol, a writer of best-selling romance novels. Her life partner, Helen, is her manager. One night, Carol and Helen are leaving a bar when Helen has a seizure and dies. Suddenly, everyone around Carol in the bar and in the ER are frozen in place or have fallen down and having a seizure. And then most of them get up and seem changed. They're talking and walking in unison. Their faces are somewhere between happy and hypnotized. What's going on?

Back home, when Carol turns on the TV, looking for a news show that might explain, all the channels are blank except C-SPAN. A man on that channel is at a White House podium, talking directly to Carol by name. He gives her a phone number to call for more information. She calls, and the man she saw on the TV is the one talking to her. He apologizes for Helen's death. Millions of others have died, including the president. He explains that everyone now has the benefits of an extraterrestrial technology. Through pulsing signals that were sent, everyone around the world is now held together by a psychic glue. Here's part of that scene.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "PLURIBUS")

PETER BERGMAN: (As Davis) Rest assured, Carol, we will figure out what makes you different.

RHEA SEEHORN: (As Carol) Figure it out why?

BERGMAN: (As Davis) So we can fix it. So you can join us.

SEEHORN: (As Carol) Oh God.

BERGMAN: (As Davis) Carol? You still there?

SEEHORN: (As Carol) You said my life was my own.

BERGMAN: (As Davis) It is. 100%.

SEEHORN: (As Carol) So what happens when I say no?

BERGMAN: (As Davis) Carol, once you understand how wonderful this is - Carol?

GROSS: As time goes by, Carol learns that everyone has access to everyone else's memories and knowledge. Everyone is happy and there's peace around the world, except for Carol and a few others. She isn't buying that these transformations are a good thing, and she does everything she can to resist.

Rhea Seehorn, welcome to FRESH AIR. I love this series. I loved you on "Better Call Saul." It's really such a pleasure to have you on the show.

SEEHORN: Oh my gosh. Thank you. It is such a pleasure to be here.

GROSS: Oh, thank you. The premise of this series is sci-fi. But the show itself is asking so many questions about human nature, like, what is happiness? Is it happiness if there's no longer a larger meaning to your life? And is being an individual with your own temperament and thoughts - is that more valuable than this happiness? And is anger lethal, or is it good to let out your anger and resist what you think is wrong? And, you know, maybe we'll find out some answers to those questions and many other questions later. But I just want people to know it's - there's some really interesting thoughts in this.

SEEHORN: Thank you.

GROSS: And did you find yourself asking - what is happiness? - as you made the series?

SEEHORN: Yeah. I definitely was asking myself a lot of those questions throughout the series. And we had amazing conversations among the crew and the cast, you know, some of these late-night shoots and even on weekends. Stuff of, like, well, would you choose what's best for the individual versus what's best for the community as a whole? I personally think I would absolutely be Team Carol as far as arguing, you know, the necessity and the positives of individual thinking and independent thinking.

For one thing, a big thing that came up for me was the fact that this group think, no matter how intelligent and how peaceful, one of the ideas of happiness and joy, which maybe is slightly different, is being surprised by things, whether it's wonder growing up as a kid and hopefully still as an adult or a giant belly laugh. And if you cannot be surprised, there's never going to be any new art. There's never going to be a joke that you haven't heard. There's never going to be surprise behavior that makes you laugh. And that's just such a source of joy for me that I just can't imagine that contentment is the same as happiness.

GROSS: One of the other characteristics of your character in "Pluribus" is that she is angry a lot of the time. She already had a kind of anger issue. But now that she's one of, like, 12 or 13 people in the whole world who haven't been affected by this whatever it is, this alien technology, she's angry all the time. You know, her wife died as this thing started, as a result of this thing, and she has no one she can really confide in 'cause everybody is transformed. And she knows that - she believes there's something really terrible behind this. So she's angry all the time. Your character on "Better Call Saul" had her own anger issues, and you're really good at expressing anger.

SEEHORN: Kim Wexler was an incredibly capable person at suppressing it, whereas I do not think Carol is. But, yeah, I guess she did have anger - a certain righteousness about her.

GROSS: So, you know, we talked about how the series has affected you thinking about happiness. What about anger? Because anger can be really destructive. And in the series, in "Pluribus," when she gets angry, people die. Like, anger is literally poison, a killing poison. But in real life, sometimes it's important to get angry because, first of all, you just need to express yourself. But second of all, somebody needs to know that you're really offended or hurt or think that something is morally or ethically wrong, and sometimes it takes anger to really get the point across. Did you find yourself thinking about anger a lot and...

SEEHORN: A lot.

GROSS: ...Your levels...

SEEHORN: A lot.

GROSS: ...Of anger. I have no idea if you like to express anger.

SEEHORN: No. I struggle mightily with how much I suppress my anger. And as you said, there's this idea of anger can be, you know, a miasma almost that, like, can spread. And we've all seen, like, horrible things can happen when you just are riling people up, you know, frothing at the mouth with anger about things and negativity. But at the same time, it is a necessary emotion, which I think is one of the arguments in the show that I side with, of the idea that all of the emotions are important, not just happiness.

And - but I had asked Vince, and he wasn't coming at it from an angle of particularly a woman being angry. But because I'm a woman playing the role, that - I paused a lot thinking about that because I do think that I have grown up in a world that - maybe it's on me. But it felt as though I was taught that anger was unpalatable, specifically from females, and that I should find a way to make it palatable, make my requests palatable and not express a lot of anger. When I was much younger, I would scream. As a teenager, you know, screaming yelling, like, the typical arguments you have over hair spray and idiotic things as a teenager.

(LAUGHTER)

SEEHORN: Plus, my parents were divorced. And so it was a household of three women, my mom and my sister and I. So there were actually a lot of hair spray arguments. But, you know, you kind of grow out of this complete temperamental, just I'm going to spew anything I want coming out of my mouth. And you get out into the real world, and it did feel like - and it's interesting you asked because I haven't pinned down, like, was it something I saw, you know, in real life or something on a television show? Or where was I getting this messaging that it wasn't OK to raise my voice to be very, very sharp?

I'm not sure of the answer of that. But I know that it got to a place where it went too far, literally to the place that was like, I'm nodding and just saying yes or whatever to, you know, somebody that's maybe speaking to me in a way that I absolutely disagree with. And I go home and break out in eczema. And that's not an exaggeration.

GROSS: (Laughter) Oh, gosh. Yeah. Yeah.

SEEHORN: (Laughter) So I'm just like, clearly, the anger is going somewhere. I don't think it's OK to scream and yell in someone's face. But I think I have become conflict-avoidant in the suppression of that anger to a degree that's not healthy. I will stand up for somebody else, though, in a heartbeat. If somebody else is being mistreated next to me, I'm in there. I'll take you to the mat. But if it's at me, I tend to swallow it and try to figure out how I can make it better.

GROSS: In terms of absorbing the message that women shouldn't display anger, no one needed to tell you that. It's all over the culture. It's in movies and TV. Those expectations don't need to be spoken. They've been passed on for centuries (laughter). But does anger expressed as an actor become a great release valve for someone like you who has suppressed anger for many years?

SEEHORN: To be completely honest, it didn't feel, like, therapeutic, like, oh, thank God I have a place to release all of my anger now. (Laughter) But instead, for me, I would take Carol's moments of sort of explosive anger. And I feel like, prior to this event happening, she probably had anger issues. But she didn't explode a lot because Helen, her partner, was this complete buffer. But now in this after event, I feel like if that's taken away from Carol and it becomes - and that was fun as an actor, to have this extreme obstacle to somebody that does just unleash rage, is extremely reactive, extremely impulsive. No problem raising her voice. Really doesn't care what anybody thinks anymore. What's the point?

But then to take that and give yourself, as an actor, this massive obstacle that she does care about not killing millions of people. So this whole tool is going to be taken away from her. So how does she express herself now? How do you relay your feelings in a way that the world is deeming safe? And as we just talked about, like, sure, the negative viewpoint of that is, like, the suppression of anger. But the positive thing was kind of like, yeah, but there's something to be learned from having to find a way to communicate your feelings and your boundaries without screaming and yelling in someone's face and character assassination, you know?

GROSS: Yeah.

SEEHORN: So there's something you learn from that, too.

GROSS: My guest is Rhea Seehorn, star of the new Apple TV series "Pluribus." It's created by Vince Gilligan, who also created "Breaking Bad" and cocreated "Better Call Saul" with Peter Gould. Rhea Seehorn costarred in "Better Call Saul," which was both a sequel and prequel to "Breaking Bad." We'll be right back. This FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF MISHA MENGELBERG TRIO'S "ROLLO III")

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with Rhea Seehorn. She's now starring in the new Apple TV series "Pluribus." Both Seehorn and the series have just been nominated for Golden Globes.

I want to point out something else that I think is very relevant to today in the series. The series is called "Pluribus," which translates to, you know, out of many, one. And in this era where diversity, equity and inclusion is basically being outlawed, to the extent that they can by the Trump administration, e pluribus unum has always been, like, one of the founding principles or slogans, if you want to call it that, of the United States. So this kind of conformity is really the opposite of DEI because there's no diversity and equity. There's no need. There's no diversity, so there's no need for equity and inclusion because everybody has the same thoughts.

SEEHORN: Or you could argue that it's the ultimate in all-inclusion. And everybody has equal everything.

GROSS: That's true, that's true.

SEEHORN: (Laughter).

GROSS: But that's by erasing their religion, their ethnicity, their geography.

SEEHORN: Or you could say they are all religions, and they are all geographies.

GROSS: Right.

SEEHORN: (Laughter).

GROSS: And you could also say they're all artificial intelligence because that's also how they sound when they're speaking.

SEEHORN: They're not AI, though.

GROSS: They're not.

SEEHORN: They're not.

GROSS: But when they speak, it sometimes sounds like, you know, the verbal artificial intelligence talking...

SEEHORN: Right.

GROSS: ...To you.

SEEHORN: I also really appreciate that our new pope, that his favorite motto, apparently, is e pluribus unum. So I really appreciate him advertising the show.

GROSS: Oh, yeah, I thought you were going to tell me he was a fan. And I thought, really? He has time (laughter)?

SEEHORN: No, no, he just says that. Like, that came out, that that was one of his favorite mottos, I guess. And I was like - we were just laughing. Thanks. Thanks for the shoutout.

GROSS: So your character starts off as a famous romance novelist with this ardent following. And she goes to a bookstore and does reading there, which everybody loves. And it's, you know, a romance novel aboard a ship with a pirate. Anyways, the language is full of, like, really typical romance book language. So I - did you do research and go to readings of romance novelists?

SEEHORN: I did. I went to The Ripped Bodice, which is an amazing romance novel store that only does romance novels in Culver City, and just slipped in and looked around. And I have to tell you, one of the first things that struck me is the amount of subgenres and the specificity about - of these subgenres. It's historical, paranormal. It could be romance suspense. Then within that, there were sub-subgenres of ones that - people that want them to be more dialogue, more chatty, versus more...

GROSS: Descriptive? More descriptive?

SEEHORN: Descriptive. Yeah. And certainly, you know, those LGBTQIA stuff. There's stuff that people really want to sound period. There's stuff that people want to sound futuristic versus very contemporary slang language. It was kind of incredible. But I also - I watched a couple people do readings from their books. And I was really surprised at the breadth of people - of fans listening. There was a lot of people dressed like early Stevie Nicks, in a beautiful way.

(LAUGHTER)

SEEHORN: But then there was also, like, you know, just a - there was some couple that looked like they came straight from a corporate job, a man and a woman in office suits, young people, people younger than me, people older than me. It definitely wisened me to how huge this genre is and how much it encapsulates. You know, all the different novels it has.

GROSS: So the character in "Pluribus" was originally written for a man by Vince Gilligan, and then he decided to rewrite it for you. How did that happen?

SEEHORN: I don't believe there were scripts, you know, with a male character, and then he went back and rewrote. I think he said he was...

GROSS: Conceiving it for a man?

SEEHORN: ...Kind of kicking around - yeah, conceiving quite a few concepts he was interested in. I think he said that - and it was during "Better Call Saul" in season 1, I think he said, taking breaks from the writers' room and walking around on lunch breaks and stuff, and just started - it's just how he works. He just - ideas will pop in his head, sometimes questions without answers. And one of them was, what would happen if you woke up and the whole world was obsequious - the whole world was willing to do whatever you want it to and give you anything you want? And it was a male character, and he has said that it's just because that's second nature to him - that he is a man, and he has written male protagonists.

And then I don't know the exact, like, shift that happened or where, but I didn't know about it until after we had wrapped all of "Better Call Saul." But he said it was during - I think towards the end of season 1 of "Better Call Saul" that he was just watching me work and had talked to me a lot about the way I work as well as watching me perform and decided that - I'm stuttering because it's hard to say this because I'm floored by the compliment and the flattery, to put it mildly, and struggle saying it about myself. But he said that he realized, like, I have to write something for her. I have to - I need to make sure that I do a project with her. And actually, wouldn't these concepts that I'm noodling with - wouldn't they work even better if they were her? And he knew that he also wanted to play with tone and take wild swings as far as, like, it could be darkly comedic or it could be darkly psychological. Sometimes it's going to, you know, go between, back and forth. And he was impressed at my ability to do those things. So hard for me to say about...

GROSS: Stop bragging.

SEEHORN: ...Myself (laughter). That can be the title of this episode - "Rhea Seehorn Brags About Herself."

GROSS: (Laughter).

SEEHORN: Yeah. I don't know. I - listen. I've had to sit next to him in interviews when he's saying it, and I'm just - my face is one giant tomato-red ball when he's saying it. But I'm certainly very thankful for it.

GROSS: My guest is Rhea Seahorn, star of the new Apple TV series "Pluribus." We'll be back after a short break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF THE DAVE BRUBECK QUARTET'S "UNSQUARE DANCE")

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with Rhea Seehorn. She was just nominated for a Golden Globe for her role in the new Apple TV series "Pluribus," which was also nominated. The series was created for Seehorn by Vince Gilligan. Seehorn also co-starred in "Better Call Saul," which was created by Gilligan and Peter Gould. That series was a sequel and prequel to Gilligan's series "Breaking Bad." In "Better Call Saul," Seehorn played Kim Wexler, a lawyer who marries Jimmy McGill, an unethical lawyer who gets involved with a Mexican cartel, played by Bob Odenkirk.

The series lasted six seasons, and while shooting an episode in that final season, Bob Odenkirk suffered a heart attack and collapsed on set. Had just completed shooting an intense scene with Seehorn that we're about to hear an excerpt of. It's the scene in which Lalo, a cartel member, had just killed a colleague of Jimmy and Kim's - Howard Hamlin, played by Patrick Fabian. And the murder was in Jimmy and Kim's apartment, right in front of their eyes. They're frozen in fear, as Lalo then instructs Jimmy to go to the home of drug czar Gus Fring and kill him while Kim waits behind with Lalo. Jimmy insists that Kim be the one to go because he thinks it might be even more dangerous for Kim to stay with Lalo. Here's the scene. Tony Dalton as Lalo speaks first.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "BETTER CALL SAUL")

TONY DALTON: (As Lalo) I know. I know. You're a lawyer and not a killer, but look. You can do this, OK? This guy - he's a house cat. Black, medium height, short hair, glasses. He kind of looks like a librarian, but don't be fooled. Even a house cat can scratch. So that's it. Hard part's over. Now you pull out the camera. Same principle as the gun - point and shoot. Take a picture, one where I can see the face clearly, and then you bring it back here, where me and Mrs. Goodman will be waiting for you. And then you're done. I'd say it's about a 20-minute drive over there, 20 minutes back, maybe 10 minutes to do the job. Let's call it an hour altogether. So you're back here in an hour or...

BOB ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) Send her.

SEEHORN: (As Kim) What?

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) She should do it.

SEEHORN: (As Kim) Jimmy.

DALTON: (As Lalo) Why her?

SEEHORN: (As Kim) Don't do this. Don't do this.

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) This guy, the house cat.

SEEHORN: (As Kim) Jimmy, please.

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) He looks through his peephole...

SEEHORN: (As Kim) Please.

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) ...In the middle of the night and he sees me?

SEEHORN: (As Kim) What?

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) Who's this ass****? What's he doing?

SEEHORN: (As Kim) Jimmy, stop.

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) Maybe he gets his gun. Maybe he calls the cops. Either way, that door stays shut. But he sees a woman. She looks like she's in...

SEEHORN: (As Kim) No.

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy)...Distress. Maybe her car broke down. I mean, you'd open the door for her, wouldn't you?

SEEHORN: (As Kim) Stop. Stop.

DALTON: (As Lalo) Yeah, but she's really clever. How do I know she's going to stick to the plan?

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) She will.

SEEHORN: (As Kim) No, no, no, no. No.

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) No cops. You know she will.

SEEHORN: (As Kim) No. Look, this doesn't even make any sense. I've never shot a gun before. I've never even held one.

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) Like I have.

SEEHORN: (As Kim) Jimmy, what are you doing?

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) You know she's the best choice.

SEEHORN: (As Kim) No, I'm not. I can't. I can't do it.

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) She can do it. You know...

SEEHORN: (As Kim) No, Jimmy.

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy)...She can do it.

SEEHORN: (As Kim) I'll stay.

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) You know I'm right.

SEEHORN: (As Kim) Stop. Just stop.

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) Listen.

SEEHORN: (As Kim) Stop it.

DALTON: (As Lalo) Oh my God.

SEEHORN: (As Kim) Just shut up.

DALTON: (As Lalo) OK.

ODENKIRK: (As Jimmy) You want me to go?

DALTON: (As Lalo) Fine.

SEEHORN: (As Kim) Shut up.

DALTON: (As Lalo) Yeah, her.

GROSS: That was a scene from "Better Call Saul," right before the star Bob Odenkirk had his heart attack.

Were you on set with him when this happened?

SEEHORN: Yes. So Jimmy and I - Bob and I are now on - being held captive on the couch. And we had just done our side of it. We were getting ready to turn around, which is the cameras, the lights, the props, everything, are going to - crew is now going to move to the other side of the room so they can turn the camera around on Tony Dalton, playing Lalo, 'cause we were on opposite sides of the room. And we had been shooting the scene for maybe the - about 10 hours. And they tell actors when it's a big turnaround, meaning there's enough time to go to your trailer, 'cause this is a lot of equipment that's got to be moved. It's not a quick thing. But we didn't go to our trailers, which is another - like, thank God he didn't. If Bob had gone to his trailer and just passed out, which is what happened when this heart attack happened, he would have been dead by the time they knocked on the door, and that would be that. No one would have even known. He would have just passed out.

So we went down to that end, and Bob was watching a Cubs game and chatting with us. Also on his exercise bike, which he would do to stay just kind of alert instead of getting sleepy after hours and hours of shooting, which did not cause the heart attack. I have to say that his rebound from his heart attack was because he was in the best shape of his life from training for his film "Nobody." But he and Patrick and I are just laughing and goofing off, and then Bob got off the bike and looked like he was going to faint. So we ran to catch him so his head wouldn't hit the concrete floor. And then we realized, oh, this is - this looks like either a seizure, a stroke or a cardiac arrest, all of which we need medical attention. And so we started screaming for help.

And it took a beat - a horrifying, terrifying beat. And eventually, a set medic was there, a different set medic that had just started. Then Rosa Estrada came over, and it turned out that they couldn't get his heart to start, and they needed a defibrillator. And Rosa ran to her car and got it, and they brought it back, and they were able to revive him. And then the ambulance came. But, yeah, Patrick and I were - we wouldn't let go of him either. They just kept having to tell us, like, yeah, you can't be holding on to him while he's being electrocuted. But that was - it was very hard to let go of your friend for a second in that moment.

GROSS: I'm glad you have such vivid memories of this 'cause, like, when I interviewed Bob Odenkirk, he had no memory of it.

SEEHORN: He has none.

GROSS: Yeah.

SEEHORN: He has none.

GROSS: And so, you know...

SEEHORN: When we went back to shoot that scene - we had to finish that shoot months later. And Bob has no memory of the entire day - not just the event, but the entire day. And they showed him footage so that he would know where he was sitting. And I go - I said - I mean, we shot this for 10 hours. We also rehearsed it for a week and a half, drilling it. And it's this very emotional, tense scene. I said, you remember - now do you remember that day, 'cause we were shooting this all day? And he's - he looks at me and - laughing, and he said, it is like I am watching an impostor in my body do a scene that I have never done in my entire life. And I was like...

GROSS: What a...

SEEHORN: ...Wow.

GROSS: ...Strange feeling that must have been.

SEEHORN: Isn't that crazy?

GROSS: Yeah.

SEEHORN: It's just, like, yeah, he has no memory of it at all. We had to tell him multiple times after he woke up in the hospital.

GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is Rhea Seehorn. She stars in the Apple TV series "Pluribus," which was created by the cocreator of "Better Call Saul" and the creator of "Breaking Bad," Vince Gilligan. We'll be right back after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF NONAME, ET AL. SONG, "BALLOONS")

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with Rhea Seehorn. She stars in the new Apple TV series "Pluribus." Seehorn and the series have each been nominated for a Golden Globe.

So I want to talk about your formative years. And I know that you are officially named Debbie.

SEEHORN: (Laughter).

GROSS: But at some point in your life, you felt like, I'm not a Debbie. So I'd like to know how old you were when you came to that realization and what being a Debbie translated to you. What did that mean to you?

SEEHORN: I think I was 12 or 13. And it's Deborah Rhea Seehorn. And...

GROSS: Oh, I see. So Rhea was your middle name?

SEEHORN: Rhea was my middle name. And it was shortened to Debbie. And I can't even say why, and it sounds fabricated after the fact, but I really did have a sort of disconnect feeling with the name. And then I got a little chunky in puberty. And kids started yelling at me, hey, fat Debbie, do you want some more Little Debbies, which are snack cakes.

GROSS: Oh.

SEEHORN: (Laughter) I was like, you know what? It was over the summer one year. And I think it was me coming back to eighth grade. And I was just like, I think I just need a fresh start. And I think I identify more with my middle name. And weirdly, there was no issue with kids that had known me forever. Everybody just sort of was like, yeah, that makes sense.

GROSS: Your father was a counterintelligence agent for the Investigative Service. What is that, the Investigative Service?

SEEHORN: Yeah, it was called NIS at the time, Naval intelligence. And now it's NCIS, of the Mark Harmon variety.

GROSS: Oh. Right, OK.

SEEHORN: Yeah, he was in the Tet offensive in Vietnam in the Army and then became a ranger, and then went to NIS, which I'm not sure if that's an unusual trajectory or not, as far as the switch from services. But we were civilian. And the counterintelligence unit, you know, like, we moved. I was born in Norfolk, Virginia, and then we immediately moved. Or Norfolk if you're from there. Immediately moved to Japan, then Arizona. And then we moved back to Virginia to catch the Walker spy family, which was a big case in the '80s.

GROSS: That he worked on?

SEEHORN: That he worked on, yeah. That was a joint investigation with NIS, FBI and CIA about two brothers. I think they were Navy and CIA that both had decided to turn secrets to - become moles for the KGB. So it's counterintelligence, meaning our people. You're investigating our own who have decided to work for the other.

GROSS: So did your father's work as a counterintelligence agent require him to do spy craft, like wearing disguises?

SEEHORN: (Laughter) No. I hear from other people that when he was a deep in the field agent, even pre the fall of the iron wall and all of that stuff, before my sister and I were around or at least conscious of his stuff, I hear there were disguises and things like that way back then. But after that, we understood that he was investigating people. And we understood that he went to an office and that it involved government and military officials and stuff, or maybe just government officials.

And when we'd move, we'd sometimes live on a base for a short while, while they found us residential housing. But I knew he was investigating things. And I knew that they were secretive. But I didn't have a lot more details than that. And I am loath to say that my head was too far up my butt as a teenager to actually be interested in what my parents actually do. And then he died when I was 18. So I didn't get to ask a lot of the questions that I wish I had asked.

GROSS: Well, he probably wouldn't have answered them.

SEEHORN: Probably not. And my dad's favorite answer to everything was, what, are you writing a book? If you even just said, like, where are you going? What, are you writing a book? And I thought I was so brilliant when I was 15 that I finally had a comeback. And I said, I go, yeah, I am. And he said, well, then leave this chapter out.

(LAUGHTER)

GROSS: Your father became a heavy drinker, is that right?

SEEHORN: Correct.

GROSS: Yeah. What impact did that have on you?

SEEHORN: Apparently, he was a heavy drinker for most of his adult life. But it just didn't get labeled as alcoholism, you know? And my dad was the life of the party and very, very smart, very, very funny with a super dry wit. And growing up in a time where, like, having martinis - I don't know that they had them at lunch if you're working for the government. But it was pretty normal that that's what you'd do at the end of the day. And then that just keeps creeping up, especially if - I don't know. I wish he was here, so I could ask him. It makes me so sad that it at least wasn't - I don't know if it is now. I feel like it's gotten better, from what I hear.

But regularly offering and even normalizing people in the service to get therapy, it just wasn't a thing back then. The idea that he was in the Tet offensive, and as far as I know, never talked to anybody about it - and that you would have a life built of a lot of secrets and, you know, even investigating sometimes your own department. And I don't remember him ever saying that he had anybody to talk to about it. So I just bring that up because I think self-medicating was going on for quite a while before it physically became a full-blown issue and then full-blown disease.

GROSS: You thought you would have a career in the visual arts as a painter. How did you get into acting? What changed your mind?

SEEHORN: I wanted so badly to run away with the circus. And by that I mean television and film. I was obsessed with television and film. And as a kid in the suburbs in Virginia, I'd never known anybody that had even the loosest association with the entertainment business and thought it was just an impossible dream.

And then in my first year at George Mason University, you had to take an elective in the arts that was not your major, and my major was fine arts. And so I took an acting class with Lynnie Raybuck, and very thankfully, it was not an emotional, ooey-gooey class. I took plenty of those later. But this was a hardcore, do-your-homework, script analysis class using practical aesthetics that was developed out of the Atlantic Theater.

And I just was in love with the fact that if you work really hard and study, you can incrementally get closer and closer to being good at this and hopefully, one day, great at this. And that was the best news ever to me 'cause I didn't know a lot about how to do this thing, but I thought, oh, if you just want hours put in and, like, stay home and study and work at this, I'm in.

And then almost immediately, the idea that, oh, this is studying the behavior of humans and the whys, and it was, at times, a very difficult household coming up, and the idea that you could actually start thinking about people's behavior as a result of what it is that they want and their inability to use the correct tactic or the given circumstance that are holding them back. It's just like, it blew my mind that that is how you can organize human behavior and not only have empathy for it, but mimic it in a way that invites people in to go on a journey with you when you're onstage.

And then I started going to D.C. Theater, which - I think is some of the world's best theater, is Washington, D.C., Theater - and watching those performers and was just like, I have to do this immediately. I have to do this for the rest of my life. I don't know how many day jobs I'm going to have to have. It was not about being famous. I knew that I had to be an actor and I'd support myself however I had to.

GROSS: Well, Rhea Seehorn, I want to thank you so much. I've really enjoyed this interview. I really like "Pluribus," and...

SEEHORN: Thanks.

GROSS: ...So thank you for all of that.

SEEHORN: This is a dream come true, being here.

GROSS: Rhea Seehorn stars in the new Apple TV series "Pluribus." After we take a short break, Ken Tucker will review some new Christmas songs. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

TERRY GROSS, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR. It's the time of year when pop stars release holiday music, and rock critic Ken Tucker has been listening to a lot of the newest releases. He's got a roundup that includes Christmas songs from Brad Paisley, Mickey Guyton, Leon Bridges and Old Crow Medicine Show. Let's start with country singer guitarist Brad Paisley.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "COUNTING DOWN THE DAYS")

BRAD PAISLEY: (Singing) Walking down the street, looking at the faces, seeing just a few more smiles. Storefront windows getting decorated, no, it won't be long now. All the cafes making peppermint lattes. You can make mine a double 'cause it's been a grind, but I see Christmas lights at the end of the tunnel. And we're counting down the days till the world...

KEN TUCKER: Brad Paisley is counting down the days until Christmas. Are you? Paisley, a superb country guitarist with a puckish sense of humor, has made what is easily the best new collection of Christmas music. It's called "Snow Globe Town."

Paisley knows how to layer a proper Christmas album. It's got some lovely ballads infused with snow and sentiment. It's got a couple of novelty tunes, such as one about a naughty elf on a shelf. He covers traditional songs such as "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town" and Christmas carols like, "O Holy Night." My favorite new song on this album is this warm, pretty composition called "Falling Just Like The Snow."

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FALLING JUST LIKE THE SNOW")

PAISLEY: (Singing) I am melting just like the ice on our boots by the door. And just like the fire, I feel warm 'cause when I look at you with your eyes all abloom, girl, I'm falling just like the snow.

TUCKER: Another country vocalist, Mickey Guyton, has an album called "Feels Like Christmas." It's a cheerful bunch of songs. You can hear Guyton smile as she sings them. One standout is the song "Sugar Cookie," which is arranged to sound like a sweet bit of Motown pop from decades past. "Sugar Cookie" is a new song that arrives with built-in nostalgia.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SUGAR COOKIE")

MICKEY GUYTON: (Singing) I got to say, I've been having this craving. Every day, I've been wishing and praying for the taste. I can't wait. It's been keeping me up all night. You're the one I want the most. You're always melting my heart. Turn me to marshmallow when all the snowflakes start. I've been dying for December to drop 'cause baby, you're the icing on top. You're my sugar, sugar cookie. Sugar, that goodie goodie. Sweetness, fresh out the oven. Your kiss, I'll take a dozen. You keep me warm when it's cold outside. You make it feel like Christmastime. My sugar...

TUCKER: The R&B singer Leon Bridges has released an enigmatic holiday track, a tune called "A Merry Black Christmas." It's a rueful variation on the Irving Berlin classic "White Christmas." Remember the line about a white Christmas just like the ones I used to know? Here, it becomes a Black Christmas just like the one I've never had before. His gravelly croon lends a certain melancholy to the beauty that Leon Bridges summons up here.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "A MERRY BLACK CHRISTMAS")

LEON BRIDGES: (Singing) I'm thinking, I'm thinking about a merry Black Christmas, just like the one I never had before. Like kids out in the street with no shoes on their feet, they're happy, oh, they're happy, can't you see? I'm thinking, oh, I'm thinking, thinking about a merry Black Christmas.

TUCKER: We began with Brad Paisley counting the days until Christmas arrives. We will end with Old Crow Medicine Show, thinking about the day after Christmas. This jaunty Nashville-based string band has a clever original song called "December 26."

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "DECEMBER 26")

OLD CROW MEDICINE SHOW: (Singing) Well, another year has come and gone. We sang songs and drunk the nog. The twinkle lights are staying on all day, fa, la, la. The fridge is full of Christmas goose and needles dropping off the spruce. The ornaments are getting loose and falling, fa, la, la. It's time to throw away the tree, clear out the opening debris. It's far too soon, don't you agree? Hang on, fa, la, la. The relatives pack up the car and follow back the evening star with heavy bags and heavy hearts because it's the day after Christmas and we got to wait a whole dang year for the holly and garland and elves on shelves, the sleigh and the bells and the pine tree smells. Don't want to listen to the fading sounds of reindeer 'cause it's the day after Christmas, and we ain't out of cheer.

TUCKER: Whether you're anxiously awaiting Christmas or already wishing the holidays would be over, here's a lot of music that lets you know you're not alone.

GROSS: Rock critic Ken Tucker reviewed Christmas music from Brad Paisley, Mickey Guyton, Leon Bridges and Old Crow Medicine Show. Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, is the U.S. headed toward another financial meltdown? We'll hear from New York Times business writer Andrew Ross Sorkin, who says history has lessons to offer. Author of a bestselling book on the 2008 financial crisis, his latest is a gripping account of the stock market crash that led to the Great Depression. It's called 1929. I hope you'll join us.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "A MARSHMALLOW WORLD")

PAISLEY: (Singing) It's a marshmallow world in the winter when the snow comes to cover the ground. It's a time for play. It's a whipped cream day. I wait for it the whole year round. Those marshmallow clouds being friendly in the arms of the evergreen trees. And the sun is red like a pumpkin head. He's shining so your nose don't freeze. The world is your snowball, see how it grows. That's how it goes whenever it snows. The world is your snowball just for a song. Get out and roll it along. It's a yum, yummy world made for sweethearts. Take a walk with your favorite girl. It's a sugar date, and what if spring is late? In winter, it's a marshmallow world.

GROSS: To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram, @nprfreshair. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Briger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nyakundi, Anna Bauman and Nico Gonzalez-Wisler. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Our consulting visual producer is Hope Wilson. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co-host is Tonya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "A MARSHMALLOW WORLD")

PAISLEY: (Singing) Oh, the world is your snowball, see how it grows. That's how it goes whenever it snows. The world is your snowball just for a song. Get out and roll it along. It's a yum, yummy world made for sweethearts.

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