Rhythm and Blues Singer Bobby Womack

DATE August 29, 2001 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: Bobby Womack discusses his career and musical
influences
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

It's Soul Music Week on FRESH AIR. We're featuring interviews with soul
singers, songwriters, session musicians and producers.

Bobby Womack started off singing gospel in the mid-'50s with his brothers.
They met Sam Cooke on the gospel circuit. Cooke signed them to his record
label and recorded them singing rhythm and blues under the name The
Valentinos. One of their records, "It's All Over Now", co-written by Bobby
Womack, was covered by The Rolling Stones.

Womack went on to a solo recording career, and also had some success as a
songwriter. He wrote several songs for Wilson Pickett, including "I'm a
Midnight Mover" and "I'm In Love." He wrote and sang the title song of the
'70s action film, "Across 110th Street."

Here's Womack in 1968 singing "What is This?"

(Soundbite of "What is This?")

Mr. BOBBY WOMACK (Singer/Songwriter): (Singing) What is this? Oh, yeah.
What is this? Somebody tell me. Hey! What is this now? I like it. What
is
this? Huh! What is this thing that's got a hold on me? What is this
feeling
that won't let me be? Even if I have problems, I can sleep at night because
it let's me know everything's going to be all right.

It's got to be the love of my baby, yeah. It's got to be the love of my
baby,
yeah.

GROSS: I spoke with Bobby Womack in 1999. We talked first about singer Sam
Cooke, who changed Womack's life. Womack first heard Cooke sing in church.

Mr. B. WOMACK: It was in the early 1950s. He had just joined The Soul
Stirrers. And it was strange because the guy that was this lead singer of
The
Soul Stirrers, R.H. Harris was--Sam idolized and worshipped the ground he
walked on, and that's who he was trying to sing like. So R.H. Harris
started
to give him voice lessons and work with him.

But R.H. Harris was like Rudolph Valentino. He had a woman in every city,
and in every city he also had kids. So it got to a point for child support,
he couldn't perform anywhere because they would pick him up and take him off
the stage. So it was really weird. So he says, `I can't go out anymore.'
I
don't know why he was able to stay in Chicago. Would it be because he
didn't
have no kids there?

But anyway, he got Sam. Sam was 16 or 17, and he said, `This guy's gotta
replace with me because I'm hurtin' the group.' And Sam came in and took
over. He took over so fast that it seemed like the people forgot about
Harris.

And Sam came to Cleveland to perform with The Soul Stirrers, and we were
trying to get our break. In other words, if we could open up for The Soul
Stirrers, at that time, it was like opening up for The Rolling Stones. And
all of the old guys in the group says, `Oh, no. Let them come back when
they
grow up. We're professionals. You guys, you-all nice, that's cute. But
this
ain't no place for kids.' And Sam said, `What you mean "No place for
kids"?'
And he says, `It's going to be a place today. And not only that, I want
your
mom to find the biggest purse she possibly can find. And we ain't singing
until you all take up a offering for them.' And I never forgot that.

GROSS: You once said that the first time that you saw him perform in
church,
it's like he's fixing his hair in the middle of the concert and...

Mr. B. WOMACK: Oh, yeah.

GROSS: ...women are going crazy.

Mr. B. WOMACK: He would sing (Singing), `Wonderful. God is so wonderful.'
And he would just--I said, `Look at this guy. Women are going crazy.' It
was
like a rock 'n' roll show. So the older people didn't like it. They'd say,
`We don't think that they should play with God like this.' I said, `Look,
the
Bible said make a joyful noise.' You don't have to be under some spell to
shout or cry and jump up and down. I think it's great to see kids dancing
off
records, whatever. If they're dancing, they're respecting God and they're
showing him their love. So that's what it's all about. So the Gospel is
the
truth. You just have to broaden the scope of it, and they can go as far as
you let it go.

GROSS: Well, Sam Cooke not only let you sing when he performed, he later
signed you and your brothers to his recording label and produced you for
singing gospel, but then singing rhythm and blues. Now Sam Cooke, I think,
was an inspiration to a lot of gospel singers because he crossed over from
gospel to pop and made it really big. So...

Mr. B. WOMACK: And everybody was afraid to do that. Even Sam was afraid to
do it.

GROSS: How'd you feel about making that transition?

Mr. B. WOMACK: I was scared to death because everybody was constantly
saying,
`Sam's not going to have any good luck because he sold himself out to the
devil. And he was singing for God, now he's worshipping the devil.'

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. B. WOMACK: So that's the way we were taught. And I was watching Sam.
What if something was going to happen to him, you know? And as soon as he
had
a car wreck, that was a warning. Then something, you know, else happened.
They would say, `God's punishing him.' I said, `I don't know that kind of
God. Those things just happen.' And tragically--I mean, sorrily, he did
leave here, of a death you would never expect. But today, I mean, you could
be walking down the street and somebody shoot you for snoring or talking to
yourself, you know. So it's crazy. Then, that was like Sam wasn't a
violent
kind of person and he died of a bullet, of being shot by a woman.

GROSS: Your father sang gospel. He sang with a group called Voices of
Love(ph). How did he feel when you and brothers started recording rhythm
and
blues?

Mr. B. WOMACK: He was very, very hurt. It broke his spirit. I remember
that
he was so hurt that he told us, he said, `All of you guys have got to leave
this house, got to get out. You're not going to sing it in here.' So he
put
us out. We all--I quit school when I was about 16, and Harry was 14, he
quit,
Cecil was 13 and he quit, and my other two brothers had finished.

And so we told Sam, `He put us out.' And he said, `Where you at?' I said,
`We're standing on the corner.' And he said, `Oh, God, man. I didn't want
to
cause that kind of a problem.' But he knew because his father was a
preacher.
He said, `I know what you're going through,' he said, `I just hate this
responsibility.' He said, `Do you-all know how to drive?' I said, `I got a
temporary license. And my oldest brother got a license.' He said, `OK.
I'm
going to send you some money to buy a car. And you-all get on Route 66 and
do
not get off route 66 until you get to California.'

GROSS: Is that what you did?

Mr. B. WOMACK: I was suppose to go buy a new Chevy, a station wagon. But
all
of the hustlers and the pimps and the fast street people had these big
Cadillacs. So I said, `I can't buy no Cadillac with this car and go to
California, too.' So I talked my brothers into--`Instead of getting a new
car, let's get this old Cadillac. It looks good.' So they say, `Come on,
Bob. Let's do what he asks us to do.' I says, `No, let's get this Caddy.'
I
said, `The Cadillac only costs $600. We got $2,700 left,' you know. Well,
they said OK.

So we bought this Cadillac. And the first thing I went to do was drive back
on the school grounds and talk to my history teacher who always told me I
would be nothing. He said, `You not going to be nothing but a janitor. You
always talking about you-all going'--we used to go sing and my father would
drop us out the next morning--we come from Florida. He'd drop us off right
in
front of the school and we were already an hour late. And we running,
trying
to get into the school. And the kids were laughing, but he would always
make
a joke. `Womack, go to the board. Who invented the cotton gin?' or some
question like that. I'm looking for some girl to tell me--help me, please.
I'd write it 5,000 times.

And he was always--so this guy, his name was Mr. Washington(ph). I said,
`I've got to drive back before I go anywhere.' I drove on the school
grounds
and blow my horn and everybody came running, `It's Womack!' I said, `Yeah,
that's where I got my start. Got me a Caddy,' you know. So he kept telling
the kids, `Get away from the window!' And the strangest thing happened.
The
car cut off and would not start. And, man, I'm praying to God, `Jesus,
please
let this car start. I just want to get off the school grounds.' He said,
`I'm going to call the police if you don't move the car.' And it finally
cranked up and I got it home.

We left that night, going to--on our way to California. My mother was
crying.
She was worried, she packed us a big lunch. My father, probably, was sorry
that he had pushed it to that point. But he was a very stubborn man. He
wasn't the kind of guy to give in. So he says--he didn't say anything and
we
took off driving. A week later they were still looking for us, Sam...

GROSS: Where'd you end up?

Mr. B. WOMACK: Well, we went to hospital because we were overtaken by gas
fumes.

GROSS: Oh, gosh.

Mr. B. WOMACK: It started to rain. We cut on the windshield wipers. They
went straight off the car. And we kept filling the car up about--it seemed
like every hour we had to put gas in the car. The gas--the tank had two
big,
old holes in it. All the tires blew out, every last one. It was really
crazy. So when we got to Hollywood, California, we were pushing the car
down
Hollywood Boulevard.

GROSS: Well, so you finally made it to Hollywood in this really bum car
that
you spent your...

Mr. B. WOMACK: Yeah, this bum--oh, man, the car was terrible.

GROSS: ...money on and hooked up with Sam Cooke.

Mr. B. WOMACK: Yeah.

GROSS: Now before we hear something that you recording with your brothers,
produced by Sam Cooke, I want to just backtrack a second and play something
that you recorded with your father, since we were talking about him and his
reaction to your crossover.

Mr. B. WOMACK: I hope you play the song that I think you're going to play.

GROSS: "Tarnished Rings" from 1976.

Mr. B. WOMACK: Yeah. That's a great song.

GROSS: This is a great recording. And..

Mr. B. WOMACK: A great song. And I heard his voice the other day. It
scared
me to death because I drive his car right now.

GROSS: No, really?

Mr. B. WOMACK: That's my favorite automobile. It's a 1974 Buick, just like
it was when he drove it off the floor. And that was the car I purchased for
him, that he said, `If you ever do anything and you ever make it out there,'
he said, `you can buy me a deuce and a quarter.' So I said, `A deuce and a
quarter?' I didn't know what a deuce and a quarter was. I said, `Yeah,
I'll
get that for you, Pop.'

But when I did make it--my first piece of money, I said, `I'm going to get
my
father that deuce and a quarter.' And I asked somebody, `What is a deuce
and
a quarter?' They said, `He must be from back East.' They said, `That's a
Buick.' I said, `That's what he wanted, a Buick and not a Cadillac?' No,
he
wants a Buick. So he had that Buick, and he would never let me trade it in.
So when he passed away, I restored the car to its original--just the way it
was originally, and I drive it all the time. It feels like, when I start it
up, he starts up.

GROSS: Right.

Mr. B. WOMACK: And so...

GROSS: When did he pass?

Mr. B. WOMACK: ...the other day that song--I forgot I had a CD put in it,
and
that song just came on. (Singing) `Tarnished Rings'--it scared me to death.
I thought my father was in the car. I said, `Oh, my God.'

GROSS: Well, let's hear "Tarnished Rings"...

Mr. B. WOMACK: OK.

GROSS: ...recorded in 1976. This is my guest Bobby Womack with his father,
Friendly Womack Sr.

(Soundbite of "Tarnished Rings")

Mr. B. WOMACK: (Singing) You know, people always ask me, if I've been ready
(unintelligible). I think I'll let you-all in on a little something extra.
I
want you to hear my father sing this particular song. He sings...

Mr. FRIENDLY WOMACK Sr. (Bobby's Father): (Singing) When I see a ring that
never grazed the finger. Dime-store trinkets made of glass and tin. And
how
we cling to faded dreams that linger, and saying the past can live again.

Tarnished ring and imitation jewelry, foolish things I cannot leave behind.

Mr. B. WOMACK: All right, Dad. My turn. For this ring, it never takes
that
jewelry, always brings you back into my mind. When I was young...

Mr. F. WOMACK: When I was young, I thought all...

GROSS: That's Bobby Womack and his father, Friendly Womack Sr., recorded in
1976.

Let's pick up where Sam Cooke had signed you and your brothers, and after
recording a few gospel sides, you started to do rhythm and blues. You were,
you know, performing, I think, on stage with people like Sam Cooke. I think
The Valentinos opened for James Brown, didn't they?

Mr. B. WOMACK: Yeah. We opened for James Brown. We opened for Solomon
Burke. We opened for The Falcons, who had Wilson Pickett as their lead
singer
at that time...

GROSS: Uh-huh. Now this is...

Mr. B. WOMACK: ...and Eddie Floyd.

GROSS: This must have been different for you than singing in a church.

Mr. B. WOMACK: Well, it was different because the women could come in
minidresses and whatever, and you didn't have pretty women backstage in
church, you know. They caught the service and then they went home.

GROSS: Did you go wild?

Mr. B. WOMACK: But then I could take them home...

GROSS: Right.

Mr. B. WOMACK: ...and then I'd go wild. They called me Wild Bill
Hicaw(ph).
Yeah. But I'll tell you--and something when you first get--I mean,
basically,
you sing--70 percent of the audience is women.

GROSS: Uh-huh.

Mr. B. WOMACK: But after being in it for 10 years, you adjust and you find
out this is going to be happening every night, you know. And you better get
use to it.

GROSS: My guest is Bobby Womack. We'll talk more after a break. This is
FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of song)

Mr. B. WOMACK: (Singing) Oh, yeah! When I first met you, baby, it looked
like our love was so strong. But that you got your hooks into me, you want
me
to leave you alone...

GROSS: It's Soul Music Week on FRESH AIR. Let's get back to our 1999
interview with Bobby Womack.

I'd like to play what's probably the best-known song from the early part of
your career. This is a song you co-wrote. It's called "It's All Over Now,"
which was covered by The Rolling Stones after you recorded it with your
brothers.

Mr. B. WOMACK: They just did a commercial on that again.

GROSS: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mr. B. WOMACK: Yeah.

GROSS: Well, tell me a little bit about writing the song. Do you remember
writing it?

Mr. B. WOMACK: I remember I had an uncle, his name was Uncle Wes(ph).
That's
my father's youngest brother. And he was in love with this woman named
Betty
Jo(ph). But Betty Jo was going to church with him and Dad all the time, and
she was a pretty lady. And one day she just said, `Enough is enough,' and
she
started going to night clubs and hanging out. She use to wear these long
dresses, and she took her dress up past her knees. Uncle Wes could not
control. So every weekend, he didn't know where she was. Nobody knew where
she was. They knew she was out having a good time. And she'd come in--but
he'd be talking about, `I'm leaving Betty. This is it. No, it's all over
now. It's all--I swear, it's all over now.'

Soon as Betty Jo came in the house it was, `Uncle Wes, stick to your guns.
Don't'--she come in there and she say, `How you doing, honey?' `Oh, no, no.
You've got to get. I've got your bags packed.' She said, `Come here a
minute,' she'd take him in the other room. We never understood what
happened.
But he'd go in that room. He never came out. I didn't know if they were
dead, but the next morning he'd be unpacking her bags. We said, `Uncle Wes,
you fell for it.' So I said, `Next week, when she go out this week, don't
go
in the room when she come back. Right? Hold on to the couch. We'll help
you.' He'd keep saying, `You don't understand.' I'd say, `No, no, no. I
understand. Just don't go in that room.'

So the same thing applied again the next week. And she'd say, `Come here,
Wes.' And so he'd be coming, `No, it's all over now.' And so that's how
the
song came about. (Singing) But I use to love her, but it's all over now.
And
that I didn't know about because I wasn't too young to fall in love. I was
15
when I wrote the song. But just thinking about--that's where the song came
from.

GROSS: Well, let's hear "It's All Over Now"...

Mr. B. WOMACK: OK.

GROSS: ...recorded by The Valentinos, which is the Womack brothers...

Mr. B. WOMACK: The Womack brothers.

GROSS: My guest Bobby Womack...

Mr. B. WOMACK: That's what they called us in church, the Womack boys.

GROSS: My guest Bobby Womack is singing lead on this 1964 recording.

(Soundbite of "It's All Over Now")

Mr. B. WOMACK: (Singing) Well, baby used to stay out all night long. She
made me cry. She me wrong. She had my nose open. That's no lie. Table's
turning, now it's her turn to cry. Because I used to love her, but it's all
over now. Because I used to love her, but it's all over now.

GROSS: That's Bobby Womack and his brothers, who were known then as The
Valentinos, recorded in 1964. So what was your reaction when you found out
that The Rolling Stones wanted to record your song?

Mr. B. WOMACK: I was very upset.

GROSS: Why were you upset?

Mr. B. WOMACK: It's because as far as I can remember, that every time a
black artist came out with a song--you know, segregation was everywhere. It
was in music and everything. So they would say, `We can't let that record
be
played on pop stations,' which were white stations. So we would get a Pat
Boone, or somebody, to take the same song and sing it, which the white
audience never knew it was sung by a black artist. The same with Elvis
Presley songs, you know. It was written by a lot of black artists and sung
by
most black artists. They was hits on the black side of town. On the white
side of town, it was a whole different thing.

So when Sam came in and said, `Bobby, there's a group called The Rolling
Stones.' And I say, `Yeah, that's nice. I hope they keep rolling.' He
said,
`No, what I'm trying to tell you,' he said, `they like your song and they
want
to sing your song. They want to record it.' I said, `Man, let them get
their
own song. I don't want them to singing my song.' He said, `You don't
understand. They're going to be huge,' he said, `Bobby, The Rolling Stones
are coming whether you like it or not.' And he said, `And plus, I owe the
publishing.' He said, `I'm trying to tell you that this is going to be a
career move for you.' I said, `Yeah, but, damn, this is our first break.'

GROSS: Did you like their version of it?

Mr. B. WOMACK: Well, I didn't like their version because I didn't think
Mick Jagger--and to the day, I say Mick Jagger can out-sing me, you know.
But
when I saw that first royalty check, I liked their version.

GROSS: Right.

Mr. B. WOMACK: Much. I said, `Good God Almighty.' I said `Man, I can go
back and buy Cleveland'

GROSS: Let me ask you..

Mr. B. WOMACK: But I've been chasing him for the past 30 years saying,
`Just do one more song. If you-all do one more song, man, I'll retire.'
They'd say, `Fine. But you started us to writing.' Because Andrew Oldam
says, `Bobby, when you put that song'--I told them--I said, `If you want to
be
The Beatles, You can't keep taking songs from other people. You got to
start
writing your own songs.' They said, `We can't write.' He said, `Yes, you
can. You can write.' And he was the sixth Stone really.

GROSS: Sam Cooke was killed--shot and killed in 1964, and I know that
changed
your life in every way. I mean, he was your close friend...

Mr. B. WOMACK: Yeah.

GROSS: ...your close musical associate. And then you became--you became
part
of his family, in a way.

Mr. B. WOMACK: Yeah, I married Sam's wife.

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. B. WOMACK: A lot of people--I mean, I think I must have invented the
tabloids because, I mean, they ate me alive. They use to call me `the boy
that married Sam Cooke's wife.' And I was saying, `I got to cut some hit
records now because I want my name back. Bobby Womack.' And I figured the
only way I could take that is through song.

And they was trying to compare me with Sam, and I wasn't Sam. And I still
say
today--I'm 55, I was 19 when I married her--that I married her because I
move
going down where it was separation between the two. Sam played around a
lot.
They--people talked and said, `Don't let her know the business. Don't let
her
know anything. But she'll be the first one to divorce you, and you'll be
broke. Let us keep the money up here,' and this kind of thing.

And I said--well, and he use to always say--I says, `Sam, why don't you
take--why don't you get a will?' And he said, `A will?' He says, `Bobby,
if
I made up a will, my wife would kill me.' He says, `I'm scared. I have to
play around. I love women, and that's just my nature. That's just part of
me.' So he said, `But if I should die,' he says, `bury me deep and puts two
women on each side of me.' And he would always laugh, and I'd say, `I don't
find that funny, man.'

I don't think--but here's the guy--I mean, I'm 19 and Sam was about 30, you
know. And so he thought it was funny. He said, `I tell you what. You be
my
will. Something happens to me, you take care of my family,' and he would
joke
like that. But I took him very serious. So as soon as that happened, I
started being the detective, walking around saying, `Hey, I know where the
money's at. I know what bank it's in. I know this is this, and he also
owns
this.' `He owned that? Where's the publishing?' and I'd tell them the
publishing. So...

GROSS: So you're saying you didn't feel like you were betraying him in
anyway.

Mr. B. WOMACK: No. I wasn't betraying him. In my mind, I was doing just
what he would have done if he was here...

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. B. WOMACK: ...and I said, `I will make sure that she's in the
position.'
I told her, I said, `I don't love you.' She said--she was the one who said
it--it was like "The Graduate." She said, `Marry me.'

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. B. WOMACK: I didn't know her like that. But I knew how he felt about
his family, regardless of what a man do, you know. I mean, he would have
died
1,000 times before he'd thought that came out. But he couldn't protect
himself because he got killed. And I see it's all over the headlines and
they
put it in the worst way.

GROSS: Bobby Womack, recorded in 1999. We'll hear more of the interview in
the second half of the show. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

(Announcements)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross back with more of our 1999
interview with singer Bobby Womack. He started off singing gospel with his
brothers and crossed over to soul music after he was discovered by Sam
Cooke.
He co-wrote the song "It's All Over Now," which was covered by The Rolling
Stones. He wrote "I'm a Midnight Mover" for Wilson Pickett. And he wrote
and
performed the theme from the '70s' action film "Across 110th Street."

Now you are also really well known as a session guitarist in the '60s and
'70s. And I want to get to an example of your session work and a very kind
of
famous wahwah guitar line that you played for Sly & The Family Stone's
recording "Family Affair." Where did you learn to play wahwah guitar?

Mr. WOMACK: Well, I just--I play upside down. I'm a left-handed guitar
player. My father was a guitar player and I learned how to play. I taught
myself.

GROSS: Well, lets hear you on guitar--wahwah guitar on this recording of
Sly
& The Family Stone's "Family Affair."

(Soundbite of "Family Affair")

Unidentified Woman: (Singing) It's a family affair. It's a family affair.
It's a family affair. It's a family affair.

Unidentified Man: (Singing) One child grows up to be somebody that just
loves
to learn and another child grows up to be somebody you'd just love to burn.
Mom loves the both of them. You see, it's in the blood. Both kids are good
to Mom. Blood's thicker than the mud. It's a family affair.

Unidentified Woman: (Singing) It's a family affair.

Unidentified Man: (Singing) It's a family affair.

GROSS: That was Bobby Womack on guitar.

Now tell me, you know, wahwah guitar ended up sounding so dated after a
while. Like, was there a...

Mr. WOMACK: Well...

GROSS: Was there a time when you said, `OK. It's over for this stuff. I'm
not playing. I'm not going to do it anymore'?

Mr. WOMACK: Look, the guy that had the name for wahwah guitar was--the
guy's
name was Wahwah. And he played wahwah on everything. I just played wahwah
on
that song because I was trying to create something. So I said, `Hey, Sly's
never used the wahwah. I'll put the wahwah on it.' And we was in the
studio
and we was just, like, hanging out. And it came out that way. But I didn't
play wahwah on everything. I didn't even like it. I liked it on that song
because it just sort of fit...

GROSS: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mr. WOMACK: ...with the grace notes that he was playing on the keyboards.

GROSS: Well, it certainly ads to how memorable the song is.

Mr. WOMACK: But during those days, Wahwah played on all The Temptations'
stuff. His name was Wahwah Watson and he was the wahwah king. And I said,
`One day they ain't gonna not need your pedals. They're gonna be sick of
that
wahwah, wahwah, wahwah, wahwah.' And he used to laugh. And sure, the day
came.

GROSS: My guest is Bobby Womack. Now I want to move on to another of your
many great records. And this is "Across 110th Street," which you wrote as
the
theme for the movie of the same name, which starred Anthony Quinn and Yaphet
Kotto. And this was one of, like, the great action films of the early '70s.
How much of the movie had you seen before you had to write the theme song
for
it?

Mr. WOMACK: I saw the movie all the way through the one time.

GROSS: Did you like it?

Mr. WOMACK: I loved the movie, but I felt that the company really didn't
want to let me do the--and I was getting ready to go on tour the very next
day. And they said, `You've got to have the score done in two weeks.' What
they didn't know is that that whole story was about something I lived all my
life, the ghetto.

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. WOMACK: So I said, `I can write this song and just keep elaborating on
it and do other songs.' But I never saw the movie again because everybody
told me. They said, `They should've given you a TV-edited version down so
you
could look at it and you could set the song tones to, you know'--I didn't
get
a chance to do that. And, plus, when you're touring and hitting
one-nighters
every night, I was surprised that I came off with what I did. And I had to
record it, all this in two weeks. I went to Muscle Shoals and cut
everything
and got the tape back and the guy said, `That's incredible. Well, if we
would
have given him the time that he needed, no telling what would happen.' I
said, `Probably the same thing.'

GROSS: Now I'm not sure it would've gotten better than this.

Mr. WOMACK: No. I don't think it would've gotten better because I think
you--I'm better when I'm under pressure.

GROSS: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Let's hear your recording of "Across 110th
Street."

(Soundbite of "Across 110th Street")

Mr. WOMACK: (Singing) Ooh, ooh, ooh. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. I was the
third brother of five doing whatever I had to do to survive. I'm not saying

what I did was all right. Trying to break out of the ghetto was a
day-to-day
fight. Been down so long, getting up didn't cross my mind, but I knew there
was a better way of life that I was just trying to find. But you don't know
what you're doing till you're put under pressure. Across 110th Street is a
hell of a tester.

Across 110th Street, pimps trying to catch a woman that's weak. Across
110th
Street, pushers won't let the junkie go free. Across 110th Street, a woman
trying to catch a trick on the street. Ooh, baby. Across 110th Street, you
can find it all in the street. Ooh.

GROSS: That's Bobby Womack's theme from "Across 110th Street."

You must have been pleased when Quentin Tarantino used this in "Jackie
Brown"
to open the film.

Mr. WOMACK: Yeah, because, you know, I used to date Pam Grier.

GROSS: Oh, wow.

Mr. WOMACK: That was Rosie Grier's, ex-Ram--that's his niece and so he
introduced her to me after me and Barbara divorced. And he says, `Hey, man,
she's a beautiful girl.' And she was saying, `I want to be a star.' And
she
was real wild, but she was real positive. I mean, she would get anywhere
and
anything she wanted to do, Pam Grier found a way. So I had her singing on
"Across 110th Street."

GROSS: Well, Bobby Womack, now that we've heard several of the many songs
that you've written over the years, I thought we could listen to your cover
of a very famous song. And I think I'll surprise our listeners with what it
is.

(Soundbite of "I Left My Heart In San Francisco")

Mr. WOMACK: (Singing) The loveliness of Paris seems somehow sadly gay. The
glory that was Rome is now yesterday. I've been travelling alone and
forgotten in Manhattan, but I'm going home to my City by the Bay. I left my
heart in San Francisco. High on a hill, it calls to me to be where little
cable cars climb halfway to the stars. The morning fog may chill the air,
no,
I don't care. My love waits there. That's why I got to go to San
Francisco,
by the moon and the windy, windy, windy, windy sea. When I come home to
you,
baby, San Francisco, your golden sun has got to, got to shine for me. Whoa,
help me! Doo-dit, doo-dit, doo-dit, doo, doo, doo, doo.

GROSS: What inspired you to record "I Left My Heart In San Francisco"?

Mr. WOMACK: Well, I had did (singing) "Fly Me To the Moon," but I did it
up-tempo. And when I met Tony Bennett, I was teasing him about it. I said,
`Who wants to fly slow?' I said, (singing) `Fly me to the moon and let me
play
among the stars.' I said but to, (singing) `Fly, dah, dah-dit, dit, dit,
dit,
dit-it.' So it was the same thing. It was taking songs way before disco
ever
came in and giving them what you call a face-lift. I took "Fly"--I took
"San
Francisco"--"I Left My Heart In San Francisco" and took it up-tempo.

GROSS: And what did Tony Bennett think of your recording? Did he hear it?

Mr. WOMACK: He loved it. I ran into him in the theater and I had been
talking all this talk on paper, but I didn't know him. So I was trying to
ease out the theater before they--and he said, `This is the guy who sings
your
song.' And he said, `Hey, Bobby, come here a minute.' And I froze and came
back. `Hey, oh, man, I didn't see you.' He said, `I loved the way you did
the song. I think it's fantastic.' And I fell right there. I said, `Oh,
I'm
glad you really like it, Mr. Bennett.' And that was it.

GROSS: Well, I'm really glad that you made this album of gospel songs and I
really want to thank you for joining us. It's really been fun. I really
apprciate it.

Mr. WOMACK: And, Terry, I must say, you know, next time I'm in Philly I
want
you to be my special guest. I really do. I want you to come up and just
watch me perform and see. And when I come off the stage, I want you to tell
me, `Bobby, you're slowing down. Maybe you need to hang it up,' or tell me,
`Bobby, you're a monster. Bobby, you still got it. Bobby, you're stronger
than you've ever been,' because I know you'll tell me the truth.

GROSS: That's right.

Mr. WOMACK: I already know that if I said--Terry, man, if you're thinking
you
look good, she'll say, `Womack, you don't look too hot, man. I'm telling
you. But, I mean, I love you, but you don't look good.' Take care of
yourself, baby.

GROSS: Oh, you, too.

Bobby Womack recorded in 1999. He has a new CD called "Soul Sensation
Live,"
which is scheduled to be released in late September.

Coming up, Soul Music Week continues with Barry White. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)
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