Penélope Cruz says just reading the script for 'Parallel Mothers' left her in tears

AVID BIANCULLI, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm David Bianculli, professor of television studies at Rowan University in New Jersey, in for Terry Gross. Penelope Cruz is nominated for an Oscar for her starring role in "Parallel Mothers," the latest movie written and directed by Pedro Almodovar. She's at the emotional center of several of Almodovar films, including "All About My Mother," "Broken Embraces" and "Pain And Glory." She became the first Spanish actress to win an Oscar when she won best supporting actress for her performance in the 2008 film "Vicky Cristina Barcelona."

We're going to listen to Terry's interview with Cruz recorded last December. "Parallel Mothers" is set in Madrid and revolves around two women who accidentally become pregnant. Cruz plays Janis, a professional photographer around 40 years old, who is thrilled to be pregnant, although she's no longer with the father. Her roommate in the maternity wing is a teenager named Ana, who is filled with regret about having become pregnant. Their lives intertwine in increasingly surprising ways. The movie, in addition to telling their stories, finds the parallels between the pain and necessity of being honest about your own past and your country's dark past.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

TERRY GROSS: Penelope Cruz, welcome to FRESH AIR. I love this film. I love your performance in it and your performance in so many other films as well. So thank you for coming on our show.

PENELOPE CRUZ: Thank you so much.

GROSS: You have two children. What did you discuss with Almodovar about how to portray the birth scene at the beginning of the film, which is such an important scene that kind of sets the tone for the rest of the film?

CRUZ: Well, we discussed a lot about it because it's true that Pedro is very open to the process being a collaboration. And especially in that case since he has never given birth, he was asking questions to all of us, to the women around that have given birth. So he wanted to know all the details about the different ways that it could happen, different things that could go wrong. In my mind, you know, I needed to be really clear about, like, what moment of the process I was in. When the contractions are still happening, like, every few minutes, it's not like - when they happen, very, very - like, one after another when you are closer to the time where you have to push. So, yeah, there were a lot of conversations about that.

GROSS: The movie also portrays just, like, the physical bond between a mother and her child and the experience of, like, touching a newborn baby and then continuing to, like, hold the baby after you take the baby home and what that feels, like, the touch. How do you express that on camera? How do you express that emotion, that - it's so interior.

CRUZ: Yeah, but it's the strongest feeling that I have experienced. And it's true that when we were shooting and I saw the face of this little baby that was so tiny, of course, in that moment I revisit all the emotions that I experienced in my own - the birth of my kids, which is, like, that first moment when you look at each other and you see those eyes and that soul and you feel like, oh, you already know that person. You cannot imagine your life without that person, even if you just met them. But I don't think you just met them. I'm not talking only about the nine months of pregnancy. You just feel like they've been forever with you, a part of you. So, yeah, that was, like, probably the most emotional moment in the scene is when they put the real baby on top of me. And the baby was so cute.

GROSS: Yeah, whose baby was it? I always wonder, how do you get infants for a movie?

CRUZ: Well - yeah. And that baby was 1-month-old, but it was very tiny, so it looked like a few days old. And the mother - and the mother and the father of all these babies that are in the movie, they were very - they were trusting us. Every time I work with children, I spend a lot of time with them, also with the families. I make sure that they feel comfortable with us, that there is no danger for them in any way, you know, with all the equipment around. Like, I like being with them as much as possible.

GROSS: So I want to quote something that Pedro Almodovar says in the press kit for "Parallel Mothers." He said - and I quote - directing her - Penelope Cruz - "directing her has been a meticulous process where I needed her to surrender herself to me, as if in a state of hypnosis. I contained the flood of tears. Penelope is very emotional, and she would have been crying from start to finish. And she knew how to replace the tears with the exact amount of guilt and shame in a state of constant alarm." What does it mean when he says he wanted you to surrender yourself to him as if in a state of hypnosis?

CRUZ: Well, I always do that when I'm working with him. Sometimes when I'm working with other directors and they don't want to rehearse, they don't want to block time to rehearse or for whatever reason, it doesn't happen - because you go from one movie to the next. And I take the time to prepare with my acting teacher. And I love that time of research, but I don't work with my acting teacher when I'm with Pedro because I arrive to the set, like, empty, from zero. I read the story. I start - of course, I cannot stop thinking about it after I read it and and I come with proposals or ideas of how I see it.

But I come, like, really open to listen and to understand what he wants because he will give us that time. He gave us - like in this movie, it was, like, four months or more of rehearsals. And it was very necessary in this case because Milena and I, we were so touched and affected by the script and the characters and what happens to them that we would start reading a scene with Pedro and we would immediately start crying. And we could not control it. It was just moving so much inside of us. And he said, that's fine. I know we have to go through this process, but those are your own tears and they are not the ones of the characters. And in my case, for Janis, we express ourselves in very different ways. My character is more - in a situation like the one she goes through, I would be crying, like, 20 times a day, but she doesn't. She doesn't. She expresses that in a very different way.

And to get to that point where I could be able to do some of those scenes without exploding, without crying, without expressing those emotions in a way that is more familiar to me, that took time. That took time to just, like, go through things and digest things because Pedro has constructed something that is almost a thriller sometimes. It's almost film noir. It's almost like such an incredible adrenaline, right? He could not have gotten that if all of us would have been in a state of - I cannot say despair because they are desperate, but the way they express it, they cannot - there cannot be a release in the form of tears until that block in the movie where she decides to make a confession.

BIANCULLI: Actress Penelope Cruz speaking to Terry Gross last December. More after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF ALBERTO IGLESIAS' "FOTOS A LA NINA")

BIANCULLI: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to Terry's interview from last December with actress Penelope Cruz. She stars in Pedro Almodovar's "Parallel Mothers" and has been nominated for an Oscar as best actress.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

GROSS: I want to talk with you about another theme in the movie, and that is a much more political theme, and it has to do with reckoning with the legacy of the Spanish Civil War, in which the fascists won, leading to a decades-long dictatorship of Francisco Franco. How political was your family when you were growing up? Because you were born the year before Franco died. So you didn't live under his dictatorship, but your family did, and everybody older than you did.

CRUZ: I was born in '74. And I mean, the rest of the '70s - too young to remember. But in the '80s, there was really, like, a feeling in the year of, like, chance for freedom, freedom of expression. Like, what would happen to me - and I don't say this because it sounds good because of my relationship with Pedro. This is very real. When I was in the '80s and I started to discover Pedro's films and watch some of his interviews - not so much the part of the Movida, you know, that I also didn't experience because I was very young. But to hear his message, I always saw him as much more than an amazing director, a genius director, but much more than that because I remember being very little and asking myself - feeling this man could be and should be our president, you know?

GROSS: (Laughter).

CRUZ: I would remember, like, being a little girl and seeing him also as some kind of political figure because it was so necessary to have somebody like that in those years, that through art and through his message was inspiring that freedom and those values.

GROSS: Yeah. Can I just interrupt and say that he was part of - he was a major part of what was known as La Movida, which was, like, the movement. And this was, like, after Franco's death, when artists were no longer going to be censored, there was this, like, outburst of new creative, lively art that - my understanding is - I know when I talked to Antonio Banderas, who's also worked with Almodovar, he talked about how this movement had, like, punk rock and sexuality, joy, color, LGBTQ characters, and Almodovar was famous for that. You know, he was one of the first filmmakers to have LGBTQ characters being just people, not like - this is a problem, or this is an issue. They were just, like, people in the film.

CRUZ: Exactly. And that's maybe what I mean by that, that even if I was not part of La Movida, and Movida was - a part of it was really crazy. But there was something else behind it that was his message and what he was doing through his art that was, like, so respectful and inclusive and revolutionary, you know, for those years in our country - maybe just not in our country, for the world, to have somebody that speaks his mind like that and what he has done with women from the beginning, the respect and adoration to women, the understanding of women because he has been raised by very strong, incredible women, the mother, the sisters and neighbors. And he has been observing them, you know, as a little kid, always observing the secret conversations and the behavior. And so I was a little girl, but I was picking up all those things in him.

GROSS: You wanted to meet Almodovar so badly. You wanted to be in his films. You used to - when you were young - I don't know how old. You can tell me. You used to stand outside of his home, I guess, hoping to catch a glimpse of him. Did you see him when you would - how old were you - did you see him when you were doing that? And did he see you? Did he think you were a stalker?

CRUZ: No. I mean, the first time, I was really obsessed with his films, so sometimes I would go to the cinema or to a bar, to a place. And I would say to my friends, you're going to see - we're going to see Almodovar today. I have a feeling. And they were like, oh, here you go with your, like, intuition thing - blah, blah, blah. And then he would walk in the door. And this happened, like, two or three times with him. But we would not talk because we didn't know each other. And I was too shy to come up to him and say anything.

And then he saw my first two movies. And he called me. And I was drying my hair at home, and somebody told me, Almodovar is on the phone. And, of course, I thought it was a joke because it was such a particularly specific dream that I've had for so many years. And they said, no, he's waiting on the phone. It's true. So I picked up the phone. And from hello, I felt like, oh, there was my longtime friend that I had not seen in a while. And we connected in an incredible way. He called me to go to his house to do - to read some scenes for his next film. But he told me I was too young because I was always lying about my age at that point, saying that I was older. And he said, I will write to you another character in another film soon. And he put it in writing. He gave me a letter, beautiful letter. And then he called me for "Live Flesh." And "Live Flesh," even if it was 10 minutes in the film, it opened so many doors for me.

GROSS: So in Almodovar's film "Pain And Glory," you play the mother of a boy who becomes an acclaimed filmmaker in Spain. And there's a twist on that, which I won't give away. It's a wonderful movie, and I want people to see the surprises in the movie as they unfold. But mothers so often figure into his films. And he seems to just have such deep emotions about mothers and, I assume, about his mother. Did you meet his mother when you were playing his mother?

CRUZ: No, because she was not with us anymore, unfortunately. But I met her many years ago when they were giving an award to Pedro, and we all went to the ceremony with him. And of course, I tried to spend as much time as possible with her. And we were talking about Pedro, and she started to cry talking to me. And she said that she was very emotional for how well things were going for him and for that award and that she was terrified when Pedro decided to quit his job at the telephone company in the '80s because she thought that was a really safe path for him and that he was risking everything but that he was right, and now he was happy doing all these movies. And that - for me, that moment was such a gift, you know, to hear those words from her.

It made me understand so much about his personality, his charisma. She was really funny. A lot of his humor comes from her. She's so original. Like, you never knew what she was going to say. And it's the same with Pedro. You go to dinner with him, and he's like - he could say anything. Like, he is going to really shock you at some point, but he doesn't do it on purpose. Shocking, I don't mean in terms of, like, oh, my - no, in a very refreshing, beautiful way because his humor is one of a kind. But yeah, that moment that I had with his mother really helped me to prepare later the role in "Pain And Glory" because I understood a lot about him and his childhood and his mom through that time we spent together.

GROSS: You studied ballet for many years. You know, I think of ballet as being so traditional and with a lot of things that you have to conform to. You have to do the steps a certain way. A lot of ballet teachers want your hair to be a certain way and your body to be a certain way - and the contrast between that and, say, Almodovar's films where there is so many - such a wide range of characters who don't conform to social rules. And he loves those characters for that. So it sounds like two opposite ends of culture.

CRUZ: Yeah, but I think if I wouldn't have had that background and that discipline of the world of ballet, classical ballet, I don't know how I would have handled some of the pressure of some of the movies, especially being very young. I feel like everything seemed easier after coming from ballet, you know, when you are, like - your feet are bleeding, and your toenails are bleeding, but you have to keep smiling. Everything else seemed easier compared to that. But I loved it so much.

GROSS: You initially came to the U.S. to study English. Was it hard to learn it? English is a - I think, a very difficult language, has all these rules. But it's all these exceptions to the rule. So it's often, like, not helpful.

CRUZ: Yeah (laughter), I was always fighting with all the teachers. That was the thing that was driving me crazy at the beginning. But no, why? Explain to me why. What is the logic?

GROSS: (Laughter).

CRUZ: But I love this language, so - I just love languages. I love them so much, and I hope I can learn many more.

GROSS: So you're married to Javier Bardem, and you're both in new movies now. You're, of course, in "Parallel Mothers," and he's in "Being The Ricardos" playing Desi Arnaz. So how did you first meet? Did you meet on set?

CRUZ: So we met when I was 17 and he was 21, and we were doing our first movie together. So, you know, it's, like, 30 years ago that we know each other - long time (laughter).

GROSS: You haven't been married nearly that long (laughter). How many years after you met did you become a couple?

CRUZ: No, no, no. We've been together, like, 15 years, but we know each other for - you know, we'd been friends before that.

GROSS: Have you worked together since becoming a couple?

CRUZ: We love working together but not something that I would want to do every year. That is, like - once in a while. But I think he's such an incredible actor. I love working with him. And of course, it makes all the logistic also easier. But we don't want to force it in any direction. If something else appears that is right and we feel is right and is the right moment, we will. But we are not trying to find things to do together all the time. I think, in a way, it's just, like, a natural reaction to protect the relationship.

GROSS: Well, I want to thank you so much for talking with us.

CRUZ: No, I thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation.

BIANCULLI: Penelope Cruz speaking to Terry Gross last December. She's up for an Oscar as best actress for her role in "Parallel Mothers."

After a break, we'll hear from another of this year's Oscar hopefuls - best actor nominee Javier Bardem, who's up for his role as Desi Arnaz in "Being The Ricardos." Also, film critic Justin Chang reviews two movies up for Academy Awards in the category of best international feature. I'm David Bianculli, and this is Fresh Air.

(SOUNDBITE OF ALBERTO IGLESIAS' "MADRE DE DIA")

DAVID BIANCULLI, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm David Bianculli, in for Terry Gross.

Spanish actor Javier Bardem is nominated for an Oscar for best actor for his portrayal of Desi Arnaz in the Amazon Prime movie "Being The Ricardos." It's about Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, their courtship, their marriage and "I Love Lucy," the historic TV show they created together and starred in as Desi and Lucy Ricardo.

Here's a clip from the movie. Lucille Ball, played by Nicole Kidman, who is also nominated for an Oscar, and Bardem as Arnaz are in their office with CBS executives. They inform execs that Lucille Ball is pregnant. The shocked studio men quickly try to figure out how to hide this from the public on the "I Love Lucy" television sitcom.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "BEING THE RICARDOS")

CLARK GREGG: (As Howard Wenke) Well, what do you propose?

JAVIER BARDEM: (As Desi Arnaz) That Ricardos have the baby.

(LAUGHTER)

GREGG: (As Howard Wenke) What do you mean?

NICOLE KIDMAN: (As Lucille Ball) I told you it was going to be like this.

BARDEM: (As Desi Arnaz) Lucy Ricardo will be pregnant on the show - an eight-episode arc, starting with Lucy telling Ricky the happy news and ending with the birth of the baby.

JEFF HOLMAN: (As Roger Otter, laughing) No. No. No.

GREGG: (As Howard Wenke) You can't have a pregnant woman on television.

BARDEM: (As Desi Arnaz) Why not?

GREGG: (As Howard Wenke) Because it's television. We come into people's homes.

NELSON FRANKLIN: (As Joe Strickland) Pregnant women often vomit.

KIDMAN: (As Lucille Ball) I know I could any second.

HOLMAN: (As Roger Otter) May I say something?

KIDMAN: (As Lucille Ball) Frankly, I can't wait.

HOLMAN: (As Roger Otter) If Lucy Ricardo's pregnant, the audience's mind immediately goes to, how did she get that way? Lucy and Ricky sleep in separate beds.

BARDEM: (As Desi Arnaz) We'll be pushing the beds together, too.

CLARK GREGG, NELSON FRANKLIN AND JEFF HOLMAN: (As Howard Wenke, Joe Strickland and Roger Otter) Oh, no, no.

HOLMAN: (As Roger Otter) No, no, no, no, no.

GREGG: (As Howard Wenke) I'm sorry, Des. We're going to have to put our foot down on this one. You can't do it, end of discussion.

BARDEM: (As Desi Arnaz) Miss Rosen, will you come in, please, with a pad and pen? My secretary.

(SOUNDBITE OF FOOTSTEPS)

GREGG: (As Howard Wenke) What are you doing?

BARDEM: (As Desi Arnaz) To Mr. Alfred Lyons, chairman of the board of Philip Morris.

GREGG: (As Howard Wenke) We don't want to bring Mr. Lyons into this.

BARDEM: (As Desi Arnaz) Mr. Lyons, I guess it all comes down to you. You are the man who paying the money for the show, and I'll do whatever you decide.

GREGG: (As Howard Wenke) Mr. Lyons doesn't get involved at this level.

BARDEM: (As Desi Arnaz) There is only one thing I want to make certain that you understand.

GREGG: (As Howard Wenke) Desi.

BARDEM: (As Desi Arnaz) We've given you the No. 1 show on television, and up until now, the creative decisions have been in our hands. They are now telling us the Lucy and Ricky can't have a baby on the show.

GREGG: (As Howard Wenke) That's not exactly what we said.

BARDEM: (As Desi Arnaz) All I ask from you if you agree with them is that you inform them that we will not accept them telling us what not to do unless beginning with our next episode, they also tell us what to do. Sincerely, et cetera, et cetera. Thank you. And send it by telegram, please.

DANA LYN BARON: (As Miss Rosen) Yes, sir.

(SOUNDBITE OF FOOTSTEPS)

KIDMAN: (As Lucille Ball) And that wasn't even why I married him.

BIANCULLI: In 2008, Javier Bardem won an Oscar for his performance as a psychopathic killer in the Coen Brothers' film "No Country For Old Men." He played a seductive Spanish artist in the Woody Allen film "Vicky Cristina Barcelona." Bardem has been a respected actor in international cinema for years. His other films include "Live Flesh," "Before Night Falls," "The Sea Inside" and "Biutiful," for which he also earned an Oscar nomination. Javier Bardem spoke with Dave Davies in 2011.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

DAVE DAVIES: You come from a long line of actors - your mom - right? - your grandparents, your brother, your sister. When you were a kid, did you see yourself becoming - going into the profession?

BARDEM: Not really. I actually wanted to go to the opposite direction because I was so used to see all of this in my daily life that there was no magic in it for me. It was no - I was not really intrigued about what that was. So I start to - well, I study as a kid. And then I start to work as a painter. And I went to Belle Arts (ph), Bellas Artes, to paint. But little by little, I got into the movies by doing some work as an extra so I could get some money and keep on painting. One day, they offered me these couple of lines and I said, well, why not? And I did it and I felt great. I felt like, wow, I know this place, I belong here.

And then I start to study as an actor. I went to my acting school, which is the one that I'm still going because I think helps me a lot to really remind myself, why do I love what I do? Because sometimes you get lost. Sometimes you are like, is it worth it? Why am I doing this? Am I doing this for the right reasons? Blah, blah, blah. So coming back to that, the acting school helps me to really put myself in the old shoes. And then one day, they gave me this role where I have to speak more than two lines, and I prepared myself, and I enjoy it. And I guess from the moment to today, I've been very lucky, very, very lucky and very blessed by working with some of the greatest directors I ever dream of.

DAVIES: Well, I mean, you certainly had success at it. I mean, you won the Goya Award for best actor for the film "Boca A Boca." That's I guess what people call the Spanish Oscars - right? - sort of the leading film award. And you became a really leading actor in Spanish cinema. Did you aspire to act in English then at all?

BARDEM: Well, I'm 42 years old, so I guess my generation, we all grew up with "Taxi Driver" and "Apocalypse Now" and great performances done in English, along with some of the great performance also in Italy, France and, of course, Spain, which I have the chance to work with some of them. But no, I never thought about going out of Spain and working in a foreign language ever because that was totally out of my radar. No - it's like, no, that's not going to happen, but it happened. That's the weird thing.

And if you ask me why, I can tell you. There is this lovely man called Julian Schnabel, which I love and I adore, who had the guts to say, I want you to do "Before Night Falls" and everybody around was like, why? why? Who's the other guy? Why? Why? Why him? And he said, well, because I like him. Because he saw some of my movies in Spain. At that time, I didn't speak any English. And he said, we're going to make this together. Don't worry. It's going to be fine. And I have one of the best experiences of my life doing that movie. I will never forget it. And we work hard and we made it, and I guess that brought some attention.

DAVIES: You really didn't speak English before getting into that movie.

BARDEM: No. I mean, yes, hello and give me a glass of water. That's all. I'm always saying that I know how to curse very well because I learn English listening to AC/DC.

DAVIES: (Laughter) OK.

BARDEM: So I'm a huge fan of AC/DC. And so I was translating the lyrics, so I know how to curse (laughter).

DAVIES: You have to start somewhere, right?

BARDEM: (Laughter) Exactly.

DAVIES: Well, we should just pause a minute on this film because it was a real important one for you. "Before Night Falls," directed by Julian Schnabel, it's - you play the poet and novelist Reinaldo Arenas, who was a gay man persecuted in Cuba during the revolution. It kind of takes us through the through the '60s, through the Mariel boatlift, when you, his character, ends up in New York and gets AIDS. I mean, it's a really dramatic role. And one of the thing that's fascinating to me about it is that it takes place in Cuba, but much of the dialogue is in English. How is acting in English different from acting in Spanish for you?

BARDEM: It's a different, totally different situation. And it's like here, I'm trying to express myself and share some opinions and be relaxed and giving you what I think, giving you some thoughts about what I what I feel or what I think. And there is this office in my brain full of people working at the same time that I'm talking to you trying to not, I mean, be wrong with the intonation, with the words. So it's very exhausting.

(LAUGHTER)

DAVIES: The office is translating. Right. OK.

BARDEM: Exactly. If I speak Spanish, that office is closed. There's nobody in the office. I mean, I'm fine by my own (laughter).

DAVIES: Right.

BARDEM: Funny enough. Funny enough. And that's something that I discovered doing "Before Night Falls." It gives me also a different kind of freedom because - I don't know how to say - it's is not about not having respect to the words. Of course, I have respect to the words. But still some of the words doesn't have an emotional resonance on me. I can play with them more freely. When you're speaking in your mother tongue, you may be more cautious of using some words or using some intonations. In English, I feel more free also to try and experiment things and experiment tones and the way of speaking and - and so one thing gives you the other.

BIANCULLI: Javier Bardem speaking with Dave Davies in 2011. More after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

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BIANCULLI: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to FRESH AIR's Dave Davies and his 2011 conversation with Javier Bardem. The Spanish actor has been nominated for a Best Actor Oscar this year for his starring role as Desi Arnaz in the Amazon Prime film "Being The Ricardos."

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

DAVIES: Well, we have to talk about "No Country For Old Men," the Coen brothers' film where you play Anton Chigurh, this truly scary, sociopathic killer. First of all, just explain how you got the look of this guy.

BARDEM: (Laughter) Well, Tommy Lee Jones brought a book, a photo book of photos that were taken in the frontier with Mexico. And there was this guy who was in the photo? It was a kind of a black and white photo with a prostitute in a brothel in the frontier. And Joel and Ethan Coen brought the picture to me, and they said, we want this. And the photo actually was very blurry. And I said, I don't know what you mean. Said, you'll know, you'll know soon.

So they put me in the makeup and hair trailer. And the hairdresser, which is a great, great man, he did this horrible haircut on my hair with my hair. And there was no mirror. So I turned and I look at them, and they were laughing so hard that one of them fell off on the floor - ha-ha-ha. And I said, I need a mirror. I need a mirror right now. What's going on here? And I saw it. And it was like, wow, that's really insane (laughter). But again, it's Coen brothers. It's so brilliant idea. I mean, it's so brilliant. I mean, I knew that they gave me 50% of my character with that haircut. It was their idea.

DAVIES: Right. And for people haven't seen it, it's - you have long hair. It's not particularly stylish. A.O. Scott of The New York Times called it the lost Beatle from hell.

BARDEM: That's a good one.

DAVIES: Right. So let's hear just a little bit of you in this character. We have a clip here from the film. And for those who haven't seen it, the plot involves - there was a bunch of drug dealers, and there was a shootout. And this guy who happens to be a welder who's played by Josh Brolin comes upon a satchel full of drug money and is running. And your character, Anton Chigurh, is trying to track him down. And we're going to listen to as a phone call between you and this guy who has the money. And one of the things that is referred to in the call is that you know where his wife lives and is headed to Odessa, Texas. And the clear intimation is that you will kill his wife if he doesn't bring you the money. So let's just listen to this conversation. This is our guest Javier Bardem and Josh Brolin in "No Country For Old Men."

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN")

BARDEM: (As Anton Chigurh) You need to come see me.

JOSH BROLIN: (As Llewelyn Moss) Who is this?

BARDEM: (As Anton Chigurh) You know who it is. You need to talk to me.

BROLIN: (As Llewelyn Moss) I don't need to talk to you.

BARDEM: (As Anton Chigurh) I think you do. Do you know where I'm going?

BROLIN: (As Llewelyn Moss) Why would I care where you're going?

BARDEM: (As Anton Chigurh) I know where you are.

BROLIN: (As Llewelyn Moss) Yeah. Where am I?

BARDEM: (As Anton Chigurh) You're in the hospital across the river, but that's not where I'm going. Do you know where I'm going?

BROLIN: (As Llewelyn Moss) Yeah. I know where you're going.

BARDEM: (As Anton Chigurh) All right.

BROLIN: (As Llewelyn Moss) You know she won't be there.

BARDEM: (As Anton Chigurh) It doesn't make any difference where she is.

BROLIN: (As Llewelyn Moss) So what are you going up there for?

BARDEM: (As Anton Chigurh) You know how this is going to turn out, don't you?

BROLIN: (As Llewelyn Moss) Nope.

BARDEM: (As Anton Chigurh) I think you do. So this is what I'll offer. You bring me the money and I let her go. Otherwise, she's accountable, same as you. That's the best deal you're going to get. I won't tell you you can save yourself because you can't.

DAVIES: And that's one of the 10 scariest guys I've ever seen in a movie. That's our guest Javier Bardem from the film, the Coen brothers film "No Country For Old Men." You know, your character, Anton Chigurh, we don't really know anything about him in the film. And I gather in the novel, the Cormac McCarthy novel, he's also not so clearly defined. Did you have a backstory in your head that told you how he became what he was?

BARDEM: That's a very funny, very interesting question. No, I didn't. And actually, that's one of the things I love to do the most, to create a story, backstory, in my head that will help me to understand what I'm doing. But in this case, I've prepared a role with my acting teacher, Juan Carlos Corazza, which he's been my acting teacher since 22 years ago. And, of course, once - when I go there with Juan Carlos, with my acting teacher, I go based on the ideas that the Coens wanted me to do. It's not something that he will direct me how to do it, and then I will go to a set and do what I want. No. It's like, I talk to the directors. They tell me what they want. I go there, to the laboratory, try different things, come back to them. And they choose what they want.

And I was working with Juan Carlos. And we found, like, there is no way there's backstory. And that's the great thing. He's not a human being. There is no backstory. He is a symbol. He is a symbolic idea of violence. He is a man that comes out of nowhere and goes to nowhere in the end. So he's death himself. He's violence himself. And that's why we wanted to create this thing where you are not sure what is him, if he's a man or a machine, or a biblical plague (laughter) - or what? And that was funny to do, but also very delicate to not cross past the line. And in that, the Coens had a lot to say because they were directing me on the set in a very, very, very subtle way, but also without losing their sense of humor.

DAVIES: Sense of humor, huh?

BARDEM: Yeah. That look, that way of walking, that way of throwing one line here and there, that's something that the Coens were - I mean, they were pushing me - not pushing me, like, asking me to do. And sometimes I will go like, why? Why? You don't need that. You don't need - why? Why would he do that? And they were laughing (laughter). And they said, you'll know. You'll know when you see the movie. And they're right. I mean, it's - one of the great things about the Coens is that they never forget the sense of humor.

DAVIES: Can you think of an example of one of those things that you said, why do you want me to do that, and then it made sense later?

BARDEM: I don't know. There's a scene where I go to the trailer park. And I ask for Josh Brolin's. character. And there's this woman there. And then I ask where he is. And she says, I cannot give any information. And then I naturally look at her. And I went away. And they said, no, no. You look at her. And you stay there for two minutes. And I was like, what? Yes. I - we want you to look at her and stare at her for two minutes, I mean, without blinking. And I said, OK. I'll do that. And I thought, at the moment, it was a little bit too forced, you know, to pushy. But, no, they knew exactly. And one of - that's one of the moments where I think and I know people love the most with that look. So that's - those are the things that the Coens know how to do the best.

DAVIES: Yeah. I remember that scene, too. And she says, sir, we can't give out no information. And you just...

BARDEM: Exactly (laughter).

DAVIES: You stare right back at her.

BARDEM: Exactly.

DAVIES: The character Anton Chigurh in "No Country For Old Men" is not really a human being. Did you connect with him in any way or no?

BARDEM: No.

DAVIES: No.

BARDEM: And - well, first of all, I went...

DAVIES: That's reassuring, I guess (laughter).

BARDEM: Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank God (laughter). I went to the Coens - and which I've always, always dreamed of working with. And I never thought it was going to happen. And it happened. And I went to him - to them. And I said, listen; I cannot do this movie, I can't. I don't drive. I don't speak English. And I hate violence. And they said, you're perfect.

(LAUGHTER)

BARDEM: You're perfect for the movie. I said, OK. Whatever. So they convinced me. And I went there. And I was so lost. There's nothing too much - there's not much to hold on to because, as we are talking - as we said, he's an idea rather than a human being. But then there was a moment where I finally got the rhythm of him - of his. And I felt comfortable. And as I said, the Coens were always, I mean, helping me in finding the tone and finding the humor in it. And that's why I had a great time doing it. Otherwise, he would have been too dark. And it is too dark. He is very dark. But he also has these glimpses of humor that make the whole thing, I mean, more easy for me.

DAVIES: You know, you've had this long career of really interesting, complex roles in your international work. And, you know, millions of Americans really sort of got to know you through "No Country For Old Men." Is it weird for you to be introduced to a lot of American audiences as this creepy guy?

BARDEM: (Laughter) No, no. It's a pleasure (laughter). I mean, that make people have a second thought when they want to come and say, hello.

(LAUGHTER)

DAVIES: Yeah. Good.

BARDEM: (Laughter) No. It's like - no, it was - first of all, I never expected this movie to be the movie that it is. I mean, because, as you know, we don't interact. We didn't ever interact, me and Josh Brolin or Tommy Lee Jones. So I was only aware of what I was doing on the set, which was walking around with that haircut and killing people with my cattle gun. So I didn't really know what movie we were doing. Then when I saw it, I felt, wow, this is something crazy and insane. But it's very Coen Brothers. I love it. And then the movie went to this huge, high place. And - but you never know. You never know how it's going to be received.

DAVIES: Well, Javier Bardem, it's been really interesting. Thanks so much.

BARDEM: Thank you.

BIANCULLI: Javier Bardem speaking to Dave Davies in 2011. The Spanish actor is up for an Oscar this year as Best Actor for his role as Desi Arnaz in "Being The Ricardos." After a break, film critic Justin Chang reviews two other Oscar nominees, movies competing in the category of Best International Feature, representing their respective countries of Belgium and Chad.

This is FRESH AIR.

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DAVID BIANCULLI, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR. Our film critic, Justin Chang, recommends two movies that were submitted for this year's Academy Awards race for international feature and are now playing in theaters. The Belgian film "Playground" takes a look at rampant bullying in an elementary school and a drama from Chad called "Lingui, The Sacred Bonds" follows a woman trying to arrange an illegal abortion for her teenage daughter. Here is Justin's review.

JUSTIN CHANG, BYLINE: Ninety-two films were submitted for the international feature Oscar this year, competing for just five slots. That leaves a lot of movies, many of them terrific, that didn't get nominated. The two that I'm recommending this week might seem to have little in common. One is from Belgium, the other from Chad, but they're both deeply engrossing stories about the strength of family ties in hostile surroundings.

The brilliant Belgian drama "Playground" unfolds at an elementary school where we meet a sensitive 7-year-old girl named Nora, played by Maya Vanderbeque in one of the most extraordinary child performances I've seen recently. Nora goes to school with her older brother, Abel, and she soon learns that he's being viciously bullied by some of his classmates. Nora tries to help, but Abel warns her not to tell anyone - not the teachers, the school administrators or even their father. Abel fears that any interference by grown-ups won't solve the problem and might only make him a bigger target.

The first-time writer-director Laura Wandel withholds as much as she reveals. The story unfolds over several weeks, but we never leave the school grounds or see anything of Nora's home life. We're completely immersed in her day-to-day school experience, and we see and hear only what she sees and hears. The camera remains at Nora's eye level throughout, as if to approximate a child's perspective. The adults loom over her, their heads cut off by the top of the frame, as if to suggest how oblivious they are to what's going on.

Abel becomes a laughingstock, humiliated by his tormentors and soon teased by everyone else. And before long, he learns the terrible lesson that one way to stop being bullied is to become a bully yourself. All of this puts tremendous strain on Nora, and Vanderbeque captures her inner struggle to heartbreaking effect. Will she distance herself from her brother to save face, or will she figure out a way to help him? The movie resolves this tension in a way that feels both hopeful and despairing. It also left me thinking intently about my own 5-year-old and the everyday cruelties that kids inflict on each other on school playgrounds the world over.

The beautifully shot "Lingui, The Sacred Bonds" also centers on a secret that a child is reluctant to share with her parent. But this time, the story is told from a parent's perspective. Amina, played by Achouackh Abakar Souleymane, is an observant Muslim woman who lives with her 15-year-old daughter Maria in N'Djamena, the capital of Chad. Maria, it turns out, is pregnant and has been expelled from her school. Amina herself was just a teenager when she gave birth to Maria, and being a young single mom has cost her dearly. Even now, people look down on her, and she's been cut off from the rest of her family. Hoping to avoid a similar fate, Maria wants to have an abortion, and Amina agrees to help her.

At times, "Lingui, The Sacred Bonds" might remind you of dramas like "4 Months, 3 Weeks And 2 Days" or "Never Rarely Sometimes Always," both of which are also about a young woman's struggles to end a pregnancy. But it's not as bleak or clinical as those films, partly because the director, Mahamat-Saleh Haroun, has such a vibrant eye for color and texture, as we can see from the gorgeous robes that Amina wears.

Haroun may be illuminating a real-world issue, but he's also made a visually lush melodrama about how women survive in a strictly religious community dominated by men. We meet some of those men, like the local imam who scolds Amina for skipping prayer meetings or the older merchant who repeatedly asks Amina to marry him. But as the movie progresses, Amina finds strength and solidarity in unexpected places, and it's thrilling to watch as she renews the sacred bonds that connect her to the other women in her community. No less than "Playground," "Lingui" is a story about fighting back and a moving reminder that we're never as alone as we may think we are.

BIANCULLI: Justin Chang is film critic for The LA Times. He reviewed "Playground" and "Lingui, The Sacred Bonds." On Monday's show, China's influence on Hollywood - how China has censored American films and rewarded and punished American film studios. It's the price Hollywood pays for access to Chinese audiences. A talk with Erich Schwartzel, author of the new book "Red Carpet: Hollywood, China And The Global Battle For Cultural Supremacy." I hope you can join us.

FRESH AIR's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham, with additional engineering support by Joyce Lieberman, Julian Herzfeld and Al Banks. For Terry Gross, I'm David Bianculli.

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