Mark Ruffalo shed the Hulk suit and had 'a blast' making 'Poor Things'

TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR, I'm Tonya Mosley. Mark Ruffalo has been nominated for an Oscar for the Best Supporting Actor category for his role in the movie "Poor Things," directed by Yorgos Lanthimos. He spoke with our producer Sam Briger about that role and his career last week. Here's Sam with more.

SAM BRIGER, BYLINE: In "Poor Things," Mark Ruffalo plays a character described in the movie as a cad and a rake. His name is Duncan Wedderburn. And he seduces Emma Stone's character, Bella Baxter, to run away from her home and fiance and have an adventure with him in Lisbon. Let's hear a scene.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "POOR THINGS")

MARK RUFFALO: (As Duncan Wedderburn) You're a prisoner, and I aim to free you - something in you, some hungry being, hungry for experience, freedom, touch, to see the unknown and know it. So why am I here, you ask? I'm going to Lisbon on Friday. I'd like you to come.

EMMA STONE: (As Bella Baxter) Lisbon of Portugal?

RUFFALO: (As Duncan Wedderburn) That is the Lisbon I speak of.

STONE: (As Bella Baxter) God'd never allow it.

RUFFALO: (As Duncan Wedderburn) That's why I'm not asking him. I'm asking you.

STONE: (As Bella Baxter) Bella not safe with you, I think.

RUFFALO: (As Duncan Wedderburn) You are, absolutely - not.

(LAUGHTER)

BRIGER: In that scene, Duncan Wedderburn is looking at Bella Baxter like a cartoon cat who's trapped the canary. What he doesn't realize is that Bella Baxter is no ordinary young innocent to corrupt. She is, in fact, the result of a Frankenstein-like experiment by a scientist, played by Willem Dafoe, who reanimated a dead woman's body by replacing her brain with the brain of her unborn baby. Bella goes through a rapid awakening to the world around her and to her own body and, like an infant who doesn't yet know society's norms, is uninhibited to a degree that both attracts Wedderburn and undoes him.

Mark Ruffalo's performance in "Poor Things" is hilarious and delicious. And he himself describes it as a big departure from his previous work in movies like "Zodiac," "Spotlight," "Foxcatcher," "The Kids Are All Right," "You Can Count On Me," and of course, several Marvel movies and TV shows where he plays the Incredible Hulk.

Well, Mark Ruffalo, welcome back to FRESH AIR.

RUFFALO: Thanks, Sam. It's really nice to be here.

BRIGER: It's nice to have you. You said you had some trepidation about taking on this role. What were your concerns?

RUFFALO: Well, you know, I hadn't really played anything like this, and I hadn't done an accent. I hadn't really done any kind of a period piece. And, you know, you sort of - you have a career going and you sort of - you get a brand. And mistakenly, you start to believe maybe that's who you are or that's how the world wants to see you. And, you know, I really wanted to be great in a Yorgos Lanthimos movie. And so I said to him - (laughter) it's ridiculous now, but I said to him a year ago, I said, I want to work with you. I love you, but I don't want to suck in your movie.

BRIGER: (Laughter).

RUFFALO: And I don't know if I can - if I'm the right guy for this, you know?

BRIGER: So did he have to convince you?

RUFFALO: It didn't take very much. He just laughed at me. He's just, like, ha, ha, ha, you're him.

(LAUGHTER)

RUFFALO: And he just refused to even entertain my trepidation.

BRIGER: Well, it is such a fun role. Like, once you accepted it, did you have fun doing it?

RUFFALO: Oh, my God, it was such a blast. It was so freeing. And, you know, you don't realize where a certain role is going to take you. They all take you on kind of a journey, you know? And they all sort of, if you let them, talk to some part of you, somewhere you are, somewhere you want to be or something that's, you know, maybe on your mind subconsciously. And it was really about just being free.

BRIGER: You've been in, like, romantic comedies and you've been in movies that have comedic elements like, The Brothers Bloom and even in the "Avengers" movies. But I don't think you've ever had a role that was so broadly comic as this one. I mean, you even do a pratfall at one point. So can you just sort of compare what it's like to act in something that's comedic like this, compared to your more, like, dramatic roles?

RUFFALO: Yeah, you know, even in the dramatic roles, I feel like I've always kind of had one foot on a banana peel and the other in the grave, you know (laughter)? It's like, I just - I see that as, like, the aesthetic that I want to - you know, that is my North Star if I could find a way of doing it. But to just do all-out comedy that's so physical - and that pratfall is such an interesting thing because, you know, in comedy, I mean, I find, is that you have to be very open to play. And it's not an inner thing. It's this open thing. And it happens in this kind of special space that's outside yourself. And so you have to be very open and aware and ready to grab whatever's being given to you and then play with it. And that pratfall, I think it's the one you're talking about - when I come up the stairs?

BRIGER: Yeah, yeah. You're almost, like, skating up the stairs. Like, your arms are going back and forth. And then at the landing, you just go flop over.

(LAUGHTER)

RUFFALO: And that was an accident.

BRIGER: Oh, it was (laughter)?

RUFFALO: Yes. And it was like - but that's the thing. Like, if you're really in - if you're in the flow of comedy, the accidents are the gold. Those are the gifts from God, you know? There's another moment in the movie where Duncan farts when Max McCandles comes in to confront him, right? And that was, like, the acting Gods just filled my belly with gas.

(LAUGHTER)

RUFFALO: And I was like, here we go, (imitating fart).

(LAUGHTER)

RUFFALO: And poor Ramy looked at me. He was so outraged and, like, humiliated. And it was just the perfect - it was like, oh, we're end of the scene. And it was literally that one take was the take that Yorgos used. But I guess why I'm telling you that is, like, you know, great comedy is something that happens spontaneously and is playful. And that's - I mean, the same thing happens with drama. But, you know, people are so much more well-behaved around drama. So those moments, you know, I can't lift my butt up and, you know, let one rip in, you know, "Spotlight" or "Foxcatcher," you know? Maybe Foxcatcher, but nowhere else.

BRIGER: The character in the movie is described as a cad and a rake. And he's disreputable, but he's definitely working, like, within the boundaries of society. And he's challenged and finally undone by Emma Stone's, like, complete uninhibitedness. Can you talk about that?

RUFFALO: Yeah. I mean, it's such an interesting character in that way, because he wants to project himself as the freewheeling, free-loving, libertine sensualist. But really, at his core, he's incredibly conventional. He's very conventional in his idea of a man's place in the world and a woman's place in the world. And we see somebody whose whole projection of his personality comes undone when those concepts are really put to test by love. Whatever she strikes in him that he supposes is love, whatever version of love he can get closest to. And we see that he's actually incredibly fragile, and he's actually incredibly needy, and he's actually incredibly vulnerable.

BRIGER: Well, let's hear a clip of him sort of getting undone by Emma Stone's behavior. This scene takes place - the two characters have been put ashore in France in Paris, penniless, and you're completely dispirited. And Bella Baxter, Emma Stone's character, decides to go find money. And so she prostitutes herself to get money and then comes back eating, like, pastries. I can't remember...

RUFFALO: It's an eclair.

BRIGER: Yeah. An eclair. Eating an eclair. And you're like, where did this come from? So let's hear some of that scene.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "POOR THINGS")

STONE: (As Bella Baxter) I took his money, I thanked him, I laughed all the way to buy us these eclairs and I thought so fondly, remembering the fierce, sweaty nights of ours.

RUFFALO: (As Duncan Wedderburn) You [expletive] for money.

STONE: (As Bella Baxter) And as an experiment, which is good for our relationship, as it gladdens my heart toward you. My heart has been a bit dim on your weak and sweary person lately.

RUFFALO: (As Duncan Wedderburn) You are a monster. A whore and a monster. A demon sent from hell to rip my spirit to shreds to punish my tiny sins with a tsunami of destruction. To take my heart and pull it like toffee. To ruin me. I look at you and I see nothing but ugliness.

STONE: (As Bella Baxter) That last bit was uncalled for and makes no sense, as your odes to my beauty have been boring but constant. And this simple act erased all that.

RUFFALO: (As Duncan Wedderburn) You whored yourself.

STONE: (As Bella Baxter) Which you are now going to explain to me is bad. Can I never win with you?

RUFFALO: (As Duncan Wedderburn) It is the worst thing a woman can do.

STONE: (As Bella Baxter) We should definitely never marry. I'm a flawed, experimenting person, and I will need a husband with a more forgiving disposition.

(LAUGHTER)

BRIGER: That's Mark Ruffalo and Emma Stone in "Poor Things" as Mark Ruffalo's character, Duncan Wedderburn, sort of falls apart in just the onslaught of Emma Stone's uninhibitedness. So, you know, there's a sex scene montage in "Poor Things" that I wanted to talk to - with you about. Like, you've done sex scenes before, but this is sex played for comedy. Like, it's not supposed to be sexy. I mean, it's meant to make the audience laugh. I mean, the characters are having a good time, but it's filmed to look awkward and rutting, and your character's even wearing a corset. So can you talk about, like, doing that kind of scene for comedy?

RUFFALO: The only time you want to do that kind of scene is if it's for comedy.

BRIGER: (Laughter).

RUFFALO: It's just so horrible and awkward, and it's so horrible and awkward for everybody else. And then you add in the intimacy coordinator who's, like, literally giving you the thumbs up from behind the camera, you know, or giving you notes on your technique. So we knew that was going to be a montage. At one point, we were talking about trying to do every position in the "Kama Sutra." But there's, like, 110 now. I think they, you know...

BRIGER: They've updated it?

RUFFALO: ...When you see the - yeah. When you see the helicopter or the, you know, the rowboat, you know, you're like, OK, they didn't come up with that in the "Kama Sutra" time, you know?

BRIGER: Right.

RUFFALO: But it's - yeah. To do that and to have in mind the - there's a lot - you could do a lot of comedy with sex scenes, you know? I mean, they're already, like, kind of comic just by themselves.

BRIGER: Well, let's take a short break here. Mark.

If you're just joining us, our guest is Mark Ruffalo. He's been nominated for a best supporting actor Oscar for his role in the movie "Poor Things." We'll be back after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

BRIGER: This is FRESH AIR. If you're just joining us, we're speaking with Mark Ruffalo. His role in "Poor Things" has been nominated for an Oscar this year in the best supporting actor category.

So, Mark, I have to ask you about the big green guy.

RUFFALO: Yeah.

BRIGER: Since 2012, you've been playing The Incredible Hulk. And as I said, you know, a bunch of different Marvel movies and TV shows, starting with the first "Avengers" movie. So, you know, but in 2012, like, there were just a lot of superhero movies out there, and a lot of really good actors were being swept up in them, like particularly Robert Downey Jr. Playing Iron Man. But, like, did you ever think you were going to play a superhero?

RUFFALO: Honestly, not in my wildest dreams did I ever see myself coming from, you know, "You Can Count On Me" or even a romantic comedy, "13 Going On 30" or "In The Cut"...

BRIGER: Right.

RUFFALO: ...To doing a superhero movie. But, you know, you mentioned Robert revolutionized the sort of tentpole studio film and really, the industry by his performance in "Iron Man." And they took a big, you know, swing with him, and it really paid off. But what Robert did was he created a space for really complex indie actors to come into these big, you know, spectacle films and ground them in really wonderful character work.

BRIGER: To play The Hulk, you have to spend a lot of time acting in a motion capture suit. Like, did you have any apprehensions about doing that?

RUFFALO: I hated it.

BRIGER: It's the man cancelling suit. You know, it makes you look big everywhere you want to look small and small everywhere you want to look big, you know? It's just, like, it's the most humiliating thing in the world. I had a little loincloth made for it at one point as the years went on, you know, 'cause it's just so not modest. And so, you know, you're - it's the most vulnerable thing in the world, you know? As an actor, you know, you learn to love a costume, you learn to hide behind props. You learn to, you know, sink into a set and lose yourself in the world. But when you're on green screen, you know, it's just you, and you're naked, and it's all your imagination. You have to put things there that aren't there. You have to play off people that aren't there. You have to use props that aren't there. This is in the beginning. It's changed quite a bit now.

But you know what I found? That all the theater training that I had - you know, you walk onto a stage and you're in a black box, basically. You have to really develop your imagination to make that place a forest or a castle or, you know, a desolate landscape in, you know, Samuel Beckett's mind of nowhere and no place and make that real and something that you can live off of. So in a lot of ways, this ancient technology that I'd been so versed in actually was the best preparation for this new modern thing that was happening.

BRIGER: That's really interesting. What about, like, just in terms of being expressive with your face, because, you know, your face is obviously a big tool for an actor? Were you concerned that you would be doing all this work and it wouldn't be accurately captured by the animation?

RUFFALO: I was, you know? You know, what was amazing in the beginning was you couldn't shoot the body portion and the face portion at the same time. So I was locked down. You literally could not move your head, and they would capture your facial gestures in this orb. And you couldn't move your head. And I'm such a physical actor. And it's all connected, you know? And I just found that to be incredibly difficult and even frustrating.

And as the technology moved along - and I was developing it with them. I was telling them my experience. I was, you know, saying, this would be better if we could do this. And they're like, oh, yeah, we're working on that - to now where I can walk on a set in my motion capture suit. I could play with the other actors. I could pick up props. I could do everything that you were not allowed to do in the beginning. And it's just taken this huge technological leap.

BRIGER: What about the celebrity from being part of the Marvel Universe? Like, by the time you started being the Incredible Hulk, like, you were already a very well-known and successful actor. But was the celebrity and the recognition sort of exponentially different?

RUFFALO: Oh, my God, I mean (laughter), I wasn't well-known in comparison. It was a radical change in, you know, every way that I live publicly. I do lament the loss of being able to observe the world without it observing me back (laughter) or being the one observed. But, you know, it's like everything - it's a blessing and it's a curse at once.

BRIGER: Does it take away from, like, simple things like walking down the street or, like, going for a hike or something?

RUFFALO: It can. You know, I have developed this incredible way - if I'm by myself, I could pretty much disappear, especially in New York. I mean, no one looks at each other in New York, you know? They just - we're so on top of each other that everyone wants to give each other their space. And they want their space in an emotional sense, and so that means not looking people in the face or the eyes. You know, you'd be on the subway and there's a hundred people there and not one person's, you know, unless they know each other or they're a tourist, is looking at anybody else. You know, they got their head down. They're on the phone or in a book, sleeping, whatever.

BRIGER: Do you have to do, like, the cap and sunglasses thing all the time?

RUFFALO: I'll do that. Or, you know, I'll wear such a ridiculous hat.

BRIGER: (Laughter).

RUFFALO: Or, like, you know, my glasses are so ridiculous that people are embarrassed to look at me.

(LAUGHTER)

RUFFALO: It's like, you know, a camouflage of unsightliness.

BRIGER: Well, let's take another break here. If you're just joining us, my guest is Mark Ruffalo. He's been nominated for an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor for his role in the movie "Poor Things." We'll be back after a short break. I'm Sam Briger, and this is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF CRAIG DAVIS, JOHN CLAYTON AND JEFF HAMILTON'S "BATTLE OF THE BALCONY JIVE")

BRIGER: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Sam Briger. My guest is Mark Ruffalo. He's been nominated for an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor for his role in "Poor Things." Some of his other movies include "Spotlight," "Foxcatcher," "The Kids Are All Right," "Zodiac" and "You Can Count On Me." He has, of course, also played the Incredible Hulk in many Marvel movies and TV shows.

Mark, to prepare for this interview, I watched a lot of your films. And I watched this trio of films that you did, which are all based on historical events. They - there's actually some sort of similarity between them. This is "Zodiac," "Foxcatcher" and "Spotlight." And I read that for two of those movies, the people you were portraying were still alive, and you got to spend time with them, got to know them. And this was Dave Toschi, who was one of the detectives investigating the Zodiac killings. And then for "Spotlight," you spent time with one of the reporters who was investigating the sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, Mike Rezendes. So when you're portraying a historical figure, an actual person, like, how much of an effort do you make to try to be as much like them as possible? Let's stick with Mike Rezendes. Like, how much time did you spend with him?

RUFFALO: Oh, days. And, you know, we became friends. And I asked that he - if it was OK for him to be with us while we were shooting. And, obviously, he's so invested in it. He was actually a filmmaker first. He went to AFI in the screenwriting program. And he just became this invaluable reference for all of us. But I went to the Globe the first day. You know, I had my phone camera, and I had my notepad. And I just said, hey. I really just, you know, like to sit down and watch you work and watch you, you know, work the phones and, you know, just watch you do what you do. And if you don't mind, I'd like to, you know, shoot a little bit of it. And he's like, OK. I'm not really used to that. I'm usually the one who's doing the questions and, you know, the recording. But, yeah, OK.

And it's funny because this - I know what this process is now. People - they come to you, and they're nervous, and they're afraid in a way. And then they start to slowly get to know you, and they start to open up. And they feel safe, and they realize that you're just they're trying to do right by them. And eventually they show you who they are. And - but Mike didn't take very long.

BRIGER: (Laughter).

RUFFALO: And, you know, I saw him working those phones. And he had a little bit of a temper sometimes, too, which I also just loved, you know? And after that, we usually have to have a drink with somebody for really for them to feel safe with you. That's what I found. And after you have a drink with them, all of a sudden, you know, it's like, OK, we shared the wine. We broke the bread. Let's - we can be real.

BRIGER: Well, what were some of the mannerisms that you saw that you tried to emulate in your performance?

RUFFALO: Certain people have, you know, tension in their bodies in certain places, or - and it makes them move a certain way. Mike had a sort of, like, tension in his solar plexus area. And it sort of, like, tilts his pelvis forward a little bit. And it's just a subtle thing, but, you know, the physical work that I learned how to do was - you know, if you could start picking up some physical qualities of a person, it actually starts to inform a lot about them.

And there's a toughness about someone who's holding their pelvis, I mean, you know, where they're holding their solar plexus like that, you know? It's someone who's, like, protecting something, and it makes you walk a certain way. And it sort of pulls down on your spine, your vocal cords in a certain way. And if you can just listen to that a little bit, you start to get something about the person. And, yeah, so for Mike, it was that. You know, these little things - I don't know what it is, but when I'm watching someone, I'm like, oh, that's really interesting. I want to try to assume some of that. I want to - but I also found when you start doing that, there's an inner quality that starts to come into view.

BRIGER: Well, I think that's really interesting. So...

RUFFALO: OK. Good. I mean, sometimes I start talking about this, and people, like, literally glaze over. They're like, pelvis. OK.

BRIGER: Mark, I wanted to ask you a little bit about your childhood. It sounds like your family moved around a bit. Like, you were born in Wisconsin, but then you spent some time in Virginia and then California, right?

RUFFALO: That's right.

BRIGER: I think your family was Catholic, but it sounds like there were some active seekers of religion in the household. Is that correct?

RUFFALO: Yes. It was a very interesting household, religiously speaking. My family was, you know, Italian Catholics - very Catholic, my grandparents. Then my mom and her mother became evangelicals in the First Assembly of God, Pentecostal, Jimmy Swaggart era. And my dad split off completely in a whole nother direction into the Baha'i Faith. And so, you know, you're in the family, and everyone's participating. And so I was introduced to all three.

BRIGER: Well, you actually were - you were saved by the televangelist Jimmy Swaggart, right?

RUFFALO: I was.

BRIGER: How was that? First, like, was that on TV?

RUFFALO: No, no, no. You know, there was the First Assembly of God in Kenosha, Wis., at the time, and my grandmother was a member of it. And, you know, these different evangelical preachers would, you know, sort of tour. And he was the star of that at that time. He was - you know, he was their, you know, Elvis of evangelical - and it was music. I mean, it was a pretty lively experience. And so my grandmother, for her birthday, asked me to be saved. And I was like, saved from what (laughter)? I think I was just - I mean, I was - I'm like, I'm 8. You know, like, what am I - I haven't even gotten to do anything yet, really. And it was like, no, you were born. I mean, the second you come through the birth canal, you've sinned, you know? Like, that's - you know, that's the original sin. And I'm like, oh, yeah, OK. Oh, yeah - makes sense to me (laughter). But I was like, yeah, I'll do whatever you want, grandma, you know?

BRIGER: So what was it like? Did everyone sort of line up or get, like...

RUFFALO: Yeah, so they bring the kids down. Like, it was a special moment. And we're like, OK, we're going to bring the children down, you know? And so I'm walking down there. I was like, I want to be saved. I mean, I don't want to go to hell. I certainly don't - you know, like, that would suck. And it's going to make my grandma happy. But, man, this is so intense down here. And he's so sweaty, and everyone's, like, talking in different languages. And (laughter) it was - so I got down there, and we're lined up. And they're going - you know, each kid's getting prayed on from kid to kid. And they're falling down, or, you know, people are falling over. And it wasn't happening. And I was like, I'm not feeling it. And then finally I was like, oh, man, I'm not going to be the one who's - like, doesn't get Jesus today. I'm like...

(LAUGHTER)

RUFFALO: No, not me. And I just kind of went with it, you know?

BRIGER: So you fell over, too?

RUFFALO: Yeah, and it was horrible.

BRIGER: Did you feel bad? Did you feel like you were kind of lying or something?

RUFFALO: Oh, God, I felt so ashamed. Yeah.

BRIGER: Yeah.

RUFFALO: Are you kidding me? I was like, I didn't feel anything. Like, I was supposed to - everyone here is, like, feeling so much, and I didn't feel anything. And, you know, I went back up there, and she's like, how was it? I was like, oh, it was really good, you know? She's like, did you feel it? I was like, yeah, yeah. I felt it. Yeah. And, oh, man, I mean, what that sets up in you at so early an age is so difficult for, you know, your ongoing relationship. It just became this thing that was always there that I didn't understand. Now I do, but I didn't then. And it was just a, you know, just shameful feeling.

BRIGER: If you're just joining us, our guest is actor Mark Ruffalo. He's been nominated for a Best Supporting Actor Oscar for his role in the movie "Poor Things." We'll be back after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF NOAM WIESENBERG'S "DAVKA")

BRIGER: This is FRESH AIR. If you're just joining us, we're speaking with Mark Ruffalo. His role in "Poor Things" has been nominated for an Oscar this year in the best supporting actor category.

How did you get into acting? Like, is that something you felt good at right away? Did it come easy, naturally to you?

RUFFALO: (Laughter) No, no, I sucked. I wanted to be an actor from very early on. I just didn't know what acting really was. You know, I had already found myself performing. I found myself, you know, doing skits from "The Three Stooges," you know, doing slapstick, pretending I was Charlie Chaplin. Like, I was doing all that, but there was no culture for that, you know, in my family. They were house painters. Then they became construction painters. They were businesspeople. They were very serious about making money. And there wasn't a lot of room for this kind of - being a dreamer. So it just wasn't anything that was a possibility to me. My senior year of high school, I dropped out of wrestling. I was an avid wrestler. And I dropped out of wrestling to join the drama department because I'd walk by the drama department, and they'd all be wrestling on the ground just like us. But it was, like, 10 girls and two guys. And, you know, I was like, why am I not doing that wrestling, you know?

And so I - and I went in there, and I was just thrilled by it, how emotionally open it was and diverse and accepting and silly and, you know, everything you couldn't be as a young man, you know? And one of the kids in the play broke his arm. And my teacher, Nancy Curtis, who was, like, this great theater teacher in the middle of Virginia Beach - like, really great - came to me and said, I want you to replace Scott (ph). And I said, well, you do? And she's like, yeah. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know if I could do it. She's like, I think you could do it. And so I did it, and I did the first scene. And I was basically just ripping off Peter Falk in "Columbo." And I did the first scene, and I got a big laugh. And I said, oh, my God, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. This is amazing.

BRIGER: So it was, like, that feedback that you got from...

RUFFALO: Yes, that relationship, you know? It was, like - it was just magical because not only did I get to laugh, but I knew the laugh was coming. I felt this communication with the audience, and it was telling me what it was asking for. And then it was responding with the laugh or the silence or whatever. And I went to Nancy afterwards. I said, Mrs. Curtis. Yes, Mark. Do you think it's too late for me to, like, become an actor? I mean, I'm already 18 (laughter). And she's just like, no, Mark. I don't think it's too late. Yes, I think you can become an actor.

BRIGER: That sounds like a very vulnerable moment for you.

RUFFALO: Oh, it was horrible. I mean, I was a jock. I was a surfer. I was a skater. I was in a punk band. You know, like, I was as much a dude as you could possibly be. But I also just had this - you know, this other thing that I wanted to try.

BRIGER: Yeah. At some point, you decided to make a go of it, right? Like, you must have been getting some encouragement from from her and then from other people to sort of get you to take a chance and to move to LA eventually.

RUFFALO: Well, my family moved to San Diego the day after I graduated from high school. And, you know, I - all my friends had gotten into colleges. I didn't get into any colleges. I was a terrible student. I didn't even really apply to that many. And I ended up in San Diego, and I didn't have a plan, and, you know, through a whole fantastical set of circumstances, I heard about the Stella Adler Conservatory in Los Angeles that was, like, two hours away.

BRIGER: Was Stella Adler teaching there when you were there?

RUFFALO: Yeah. Yeah. She was there. But, you know, I had the good fortune of walking in the school, and there's a woman there, Joanne Linville, who I recognized immediately as the Romulan commander of "Star Trek." And she said, what are you doing here? And I said, I don't have an audition. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't have any real training. But I want to spend my life being an actor. And she said, well, darling, you've come to the right place. And she really took me under her wing. And I wasn't good in the beginning, and it took me a long time. You know who I was in class with who was amazing was Benicio Del Toro. Like, literally the second he walked in, he was amazing. And I looked at him, I was like, oh, my God, I'll never be that guy. And yeah, it took me a long time and a lot of auditions before I started to figure out what I was doing.

BRIGER: If you're just joining us, we're speaking with actor Mark Ruffalo. More after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF ERROLL GARNER'S "IT'S ONLY A PAPER MOON")

BRIGER: This is FRESH AIR. Our guest is actor Mark Ruffalo, who's up for an Oscar award this year for best supporting actor for his role in the movie "Poor Things."

So, you know, your big break was the 2000 Kenneth Lonergan movie "You Can Count On Me," which I watched again this week. It's such a terrific movie. You play Terry, you've got a sister, Sammy, who's played by Laura Linney, and you guys were orphaned early in life. Your parents died in a car crash. So, like, what did you think of this character when you read the script? Like, he's often a jerk, but he's also, like, a pretty good guy and tries to do the right thing a lot and has just been damaged by this awful tragedy when he was a kid.

RUFFALO: I - he was so many people that I knew growing up. And he just felt so close to me. I read it, and I said, I have to play this. There's no one else in the world that could play this. And I got to somehow convince Kenny of that, who at the time, was really, you know, because of financial reasons and the way movies are made, he was, you know, he was dead set on getting a star to do it, and I wasn't that. But I just was so moved by it, and I felt I got to play this. There's no one else that...

BRIGER: You begged to get the role, is that what you said?

RUFFALO: Basically. I mean, you know, Kenny was like, you know, I can't, you know, I can't use you. You know, you don't look anything like Laura Linney. She's the one we're going to cast. And I was just like, just let me come in for an audition, man. You know, we're like, I'm your - I'm a good friend. And - you know, and he's like, fine, just don't sic your manager on me, you know? And I was like, fine, I won't, you know? And so - but he said, OK, you know, the casting is closed. We're going to go to another actor on Monday. So just come to the production office and I'll tape you myself and I'll read the sides with you. I was like, thank you. And I went in there, and I was - man, I knew I had to be better than if I even ever got the part. And so I worked on it and I worked on it and I worked on it and I knew it, and I went in there, and I already knew I had nothing to lose, so I was so free. And we read the first scene. He's holding the camera in one hand and reading the lines in the other, right? And after the first scene, he's like, that was really good.

(LAUGHTER)

BRIGER: He wasn't happy about that.

RUFFALO: Yeah. It wasn't like - It wasn't joy. He was like, all right, let's read the next one. And I did that and he was like, oh, that was really good. You'd be really good in this part. And slowly but surely, I won him over.

BRIGER: Well, he made a good decision casting you in it.

RUFFALO: Thank God.

BRIGER: Great performance.

RUFFALO: Oh, I don't know what would have happened to me if I didn't get that role.

BRIGER: Well, so, like, this is your big break and, you know, you start getting asked to do a lot of roles, but then, like, everything just - you have to go in - you've talked about this a bunch, but you were diagnosed with a brain tumor, which turned out to be benign. You had to have this operation, you had to deal with all these side effects. You had to do all this rehabilitation. I mean, fortunately, you were able to really get through it, but it took a while...

RUFFALO: Yeah.

BRIGER: ...And, like, it just must have been, I mean, obviously, it's a terrible thing to happen in your life, but just in terms of your career, like, that must have been so discouraging because, like, here you are just breaking out and then your body just shuts it all down. Like, did that experience make you forever, like, suspicious of success? Like, you might be good now, but you don't know what's coming around the corner.

RUFFALO: Oh, for sure. I - you know, I - to this day, I'm still, like, waiting for the piano to fall. But that was particularly difficult because, you know, I was just starting a family. You know, I'd just bought a house based on this next big job that was coming, which was with M. Night Shyamalan in "Signs," co-starring with Mel Gibson. I mean, it was just, like, this explosion from that movie. And I was the hot guy, and it was all before me. And it was everything that I'd ever dreamed of, and I'd reached it. I was 33. And it was gone like that. And I woke up, and my face was paralyzed. And they didn't know if it was ever going to come back. And I couldn't even close my eye. And I looked so terrible. And I have a baby at home. And my whole life was trying to get to that moment. And it seemed pretty much like it was over. And if I - and whatever feeling I had about God at that moment, let me tell you, we had a talking to. Like, I couldn't be more pissed at anything than I was at that moment to whatever - if there is or if there isn't a deity, you know, which is probably a common feeling people have.

BRIGER: Yeah, well, I was actually really interested in that particular aspect of this because, like, as we said, you know, you're - there's some spiritual searchers in your family, right? Like, your grandmother became an evangelist after being Catholic. Your father joined the Baha'i religion. Like, did this experience sort of alter the way you thought about spirituality or, like, even the soul or identity?

RUFFALO: When it all comes crashing down around you, you. you of - you do become a believer for a moment, you know? Like, please, please, please, please. Please, please, please, please don't let the plane crash. Please. I'll go to church. You know? You know, you're - it's amazing how many people - when the plane's going down, you see praying around you, you know? But that was a real test of faith that I didn't really pass. I was - you know, I was like, this can't be happening. But, of course, it is happening, and it was happening. But I'll tell you it's probably the best thing that ever happened to me.

BRIGER: Really?

RUFFALO: I learned so much from it. And I had the good version of it where my face did come back. So I lost everything. I went through that experience, which made me grateful. It made me - you know, it made me compassionate. It made me aware of loss. It made me aware of, you know, how fragile life is. It just gave me so many lessons. And at the end of the day, it didn't really cost me much except for the hearing in my left ear, which was the deal I made. Hey, dude, if you're really there, please don't leave my son fatherless. Just take my left ear. Cool?

BRIGER: Yeah.

RUFFALO: You got to be careful with deals you make.

BRIGER: Yeah.

RUFFALO: (Laughter). That's what I learned.

BRIGER: Well, it's been a real pleasure speaking with you. Mark Ruffalo, thanks so much for coming on the show.

RUFFALO: Thanks, Sam. It was a great interview. It was really, really a great interview. I appreciate it.

MOSLEY: Mark Ruffalo speaking with FRESH AIR producer Sam Briger. He's nominated for an Oscar for best supporting actor for his performance in the film "Poor Things." Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, we remember Bob Edwards, Peabody Award-winning broadcast journalist and the voice credited with building NPR's Morning Edition and All Things Considered. He died on Saturday at the age of 76. I hope you can join us. To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at @nprfreshair.

(SOUNDBITE OF CHICK COREA AND ORCHESTRA DA CAMERA DELLA SARDEGNA'S "RHAPSODY IN BLUE (LIVE)")

MOSLEY: FRESH AIR's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineers is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Amy Salit, Phyllis Myers, Sam Briger, Lauren Krenzel, Heidi Saman, Ann Marie Baldonado, Therese Madden, Thea Chaloner, Seth Kelley and Susan Nyakundi. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. For Terry Gross, I'm Tonya Mosley.

(SOUNDBITE OF CHICK COREA AND ORCHESTRA DA CAMERA DELLA SARDEGNA'S "RHAPSODY IN BLUE (LIVE)")

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