Filmmakers Peter and Bobby Farrelly

DATE September 6, 2004 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: Ricky Gervais discusses his show, "The Office"
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

Labor Day may be a holiday, but it's a holiday that makes me edgy, because
when it's over, it means back to school. OK, I'm not in school anymore, but
at work it means the summer slowdown is over and the pressure is on. In
recognition of those back-to-work, back-to-school anxieties, we're going to
hear from Ricky Gervais, the co-creator and star of the sitcom "The Office,"
one of the funniest shows about office life.

Gervais plays David Brent, a mid-level office manager in a small branch of a
paper company, who thinks he's hip, funny, smart, a wise philosopher and a
good friend to his staff. Unfortunately, he's none of those things. He's too
self-absorbed to notice that his staff constantly winces as he holds forth.
Entertainment Weekly called the character `the most brilliantly clueless boss
on the planet.' Gervais won a Golden Globe this year for best actor in a TV
comedy, and the series won for best comedy. It also won a Peabody. "The
Office" is currently in reruns on BBC America Thursday nights and it's out on
DVD. A two-hour special will be shown in October.

Here's a scene in which Gervais, as boss David Brent, is doing a performance
evaluation form of his receptionist, Dawn.

(Soundbite of "The Office")

Mr. RICKY GERVAIS (Actor): (As David Brent) If you had to name a role model,
someone who's influenced you, who'd it be?

Ms. LUCY DAVIS: (As Dawn) What, like a historical person?

Mr. GERVAIS: No, somebody in sort of general life.

Ms. DAVIS: Oh.

Mr. GERVAIS: Just someone who's been an influence on you.

Ms. DAVIS: I suppose my mum. She's just--she's strong, calm in the face of
adversity. Oh God, I remember when she had her hysterectomy.

Mr. GERVAIS: If it wasn't your mother, though. I mean, it doesn't even have
to be a woman. It could be a, you know...

Ms. DAVIS: Man.

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah.

Ms. DAVIS: OK. Well, I suppose if it was a man, it would be my father.

Mr. GERVAIS: Not your father. I mean...

Ms. DAVIS: No?

Mr. GERVAIS: ...let's paint your parents as red. I'm looking for someone in
the work-related arena who's influenced...

Ms. DAVIS: Right. OK. Well, I suppose Tim then. He's always...

Mr. GERVAIS: Well, he's a friend, isn't he? Not a friend. Somebody in
authority, I mean, you know...

Ms. DAVIS: Well, then I suppose Jennifer.

Mr. GERVAIS: I thought we said not a woman, didn't we, or am I...

Ms. DAVIS: OK. Well, I suppose you're the only one who...

Mr. GERVAIS: Oh. Embarrassing. This backfired, didn't it? Oh, dear. Very
flattering. Can we put me as a...

Ms. DAVIS: OK, Tim then.

Mr. GERVAIS: We said not Tim. So do you want to put me or not?

Ms. DAVIS: OK.

Mr. GERVAIS: Right. So should I put strong-willed ...(unintelligible)?

Ms. DAVIS: OK.

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah.

GROSS: I love the distance between what the character thinks of himself and
what he's really like and...

Mr. GERVAIS: Well, the blind spot is one of my favorite things. I mean, in
life and comedy, I think it's funny and it's tragic, the way he talks about
everyone loving him, that's a strange thing to say. To wear your popularity
on your sleeve. He's one of those people that would rather hand out sort of
business cards than bother getting to know people. He wants to say, `David
Brent, great bloke, you'll love me, I'll like you in return.' Pretension is
always interesting. I love pretension.

GROSS: Some of my favorite shots in "The Office" are the cutaways to the
people who work in the office, and every time David Brent is like telling a
joke or describing what a great boss he is or, you know, how funny he is,
everybody's like averting their eyes and looking at their shoes or staring at
the wall or just, like...

Mr. GERVAIS: Well, that--well, yeah, comedy's...

GROSS: They're so...

Mr. GERVAIS: Comedy's contextual. I mean, the funniest thing in the office
aren't the people who are actually funny. They're the people who aren't
funny. It's the faux pas. It's the failure that's amusing. I learned a lot
from Laurel and Hardy. The funny thing wasn't Stan saying something stupid.
It was the cut to Ollie, who then looked at him like he was the worst person
in the world, and then he looked at us, as if to say, `Why am I with this
idiot?' When Brent tells a bad joke, it's the fact that it goes to other
people not laughing.

GROSS: But you've created this story about life in an office. Have you ever
worked in an office?

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah.

GROSS: You did?

Mr. GERVAIS: I worked in an office for eight years. That's where I got it
all from. I was a middle manager. I went to management training seminars
where the speakers talk rubbish for two days. Yeah, I worked in an office
for seven or eight years.

GROSS: Are any of the story lines in "The Office" based on things that have
happened to you?

Mr. GERVAIS: Oh, let me think. Let's see. Well, the episode four in series
one where we had the guy come in to train people, I remember the first
training session I went to, it was held by some other managers when I was
just--I think I was on reception, and they weren't really trained for it. And
I remember they did role playing, and I remember at the time thinking, `This
is ridiculous,' because they sort of divvied it up between them and said, `OK,
I'm gonna play a bad hotel manager. You play the customer.' And it started
off, `I'd like to complain about my room.' `Well, I don't care.' `Well, you
should. You're the manager.' `Well, go to another hotel then.' `Well, I
will.' And they went, `That's the wrong way to do it.' And then they said,
`OK, now we'll show you the right way to do it.' And he comes in and says,
`I'd like to complain about my room.' `Oh, I'm very sorry, sir. What's up
with it?' `Oh, it's just dirty.' `Oh, well, I'll have someone clean it and
you can have it for free.' Brilliant. It was like as black and white as that,
and I remember thinking, `I don't know what the moral is.' So I quite like
spoofing role-playing.

GROSS: Why don't we hear that scene? And in this scene, David Brent is
role-playing with the guy who's running the seminar, and David Brent is
supposed to be playing the customer, and the guy running the seminar is the
hotel clerk.

(Soundbite from "The Office")

Mr. GERVAIS: (As David Brent) I'd like to make a complaint, please.

Mr. VINCENT FRANKLIN: Don't care.

Mr. GERVAIS: Well, I am staying in the hotel, so...

Mr. FRANKLIN: I don't care. It's not my shift.

Mr. GERVAIS: Well, you're an ambassador for the hotel.

Mr. FRANKLIN: I don't care. I don't care what you say.

Mr. GERVAIS: I think you'll care when I tell you what the complaint is.

Mr. FRANKLIN: I don't care.

Mr. GERVAIS: I think there's been a rape up there! I got his attention. Get
their attention. OK?

Mr. FRANKLIN: Right, so there were some interesting points...

Mr. GERVAIS: Very interesting points.

Mr. FRANKLIN: ...(unintelligible) up there. It's not...

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah.

Mr. FRANKLIN: ...quite the point I was trying to make, David.

Mr. GERVAIS: Different points to be made. OK?

Mr. FRANKLIN: I'm more interested, really, in customer care...

Mr. GERVAIS: So am I.

Mr. FRANKLIN: ...and the way that we would deal with somebody that...

Mr. GERVAIS: I phased--maybe I should--as I thought, I should play the hotel
manager, 'cause I'm used to that. I phased you. But you have a go. See if
you can phase me. OK?

Mr. FRANKLIN: Yeah, all right.

Mr. GERVAIS: OK?

Mr. FRANKLIN: Hello. I wish to make a complaint.

Mr. GERVAIS: Not interested.

Mr. FRANKLIN: My room is an absolute disgrace.

Mr. GERVAIS: Don't care.

Mr. FRANKLIN: Look, the bathroom doesn't appear to have been cleaned and
it...

Mr. GERVAIS: What room are you in?

Mr. FRANKLIN: Three six two.

Mr. GERVAIS: There is no 362 in this hotel. Sometimes the complaints will be
false. OK? Good.

GROSS: David completely misses the point in that, but that's so typical of
him.

Mr. GERVAIS: Of course, because he wants to be top dog. He wants to be the
center of attention. He couldn't--you know, he hires this guy, but then he
wants to be in charge, so he's just a child, you know. It's his football, and
he's got to be, you know, the most important player.

GROSS: Now later in this same seminar, David turns the discussion into
basically a Q&A about himself, and then...

Mr. GERVAIS: Yes.

GROSS: ...he reveals he used to be in a band and then he takes out his guitar
and he starts playing some songs.

Mr. GERVAIS: Awful.

GROSS: Awful. In fact, let me play some of the song.

(Soundbite of "The Office"; music)

Mr. GERVAIS: (Singing as David Brent) Spacemen came down to answer some
things. The world gathered round, from paupers to kings. I'll answer your
questions, I'll answer them true. I'll show you the way. You know what to
do. Who is wrong and who is right? Yellow, brown, black or white? Spaceman,
he answered, `You no longer mind. I've opened your eyes. You're now
color-blind.'

Racial. So...

(Singing) She's the serpent, who guards the gates of hell. Yeah.

(Soundbite of applause; guitar)

Mr. GERVAIS: (Singing) Pretty girl on the hood of a Cadillac, yeah. She's
broken down on Freeway 9. I take a look and her engine started and leave her
purring and I roll on by. Bye-bye. Free love on the free love freeway...

Unidentified Man #1: That's what it is.

Mr. GERVAIS: (Singing) ...and love is free and the freeway is long. I got
some hot love on the hot love highway. Ain't going home 'cause my baby's
gone.

Unidentified Man #2: (Singing) She's dead.

Mr. GERVAIS: She's not dead. (Singing) Long time later see a cowboy crying.
He says, `Hey, buddy, what can I do?' Says, `I lived a good life. I've had
about a thousand women.' I said, `So why the tears?' He says, `'Cause none
of them was you.'

Unidentified Man #3: What, you?

Mr. GERVAIS: No, he's looking at a photograph.

Unidentified Man #3: Of you?

Mr. GERVAIS: No, of his girlfriend. The video would have shown it.

Unidentified Man #3: Sorry.

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah.

Unidentified Man #3: He sounds a bit gay at the moment.

Mr. GERVAIS: He's not gay.

(Soundbite of music)

Mr. GERVAIS: (Singing) Free love on the free love freeway. The love is free
and the freeway's long.

GROSS: That's Ricky Gervais as David Brent in a scene from the British sitcom
"The Office," which is on BBC America, and is also now on DVD.

Now, Ricky, I know you used to be in a band.

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah.

GROSS: Are any of these songs you used to do for real?

Mr. GERVAIS: No, no, no, no.

GROSS: Good. I was really hoping you'd say that.

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah. No, of course not. No, I wrote those especially for the
show, and they weren't spoof songs. They were meant to be sort of like more
inappropriate. "Free Love Freeway," I'm fascinated when British people who've
never been out of their own town start writing songs about what it would be
like to cross America. You know, they might as well talk about space travel.
And I just thought it was--again, the joke there wasn't that he was bad or the
songs were comical, it was the fact that it was so inappropriate. He's meant
to be leading a training session, but he wants to show off. And I love that.
Same as, like, people who take a guitar to a party. I just want to go, `What
are you doing?' You know, it's just like, `Shut up.' So, no, I just
thought--I just found it amusing that, again, a 40-year-old man who's meant to
be doing something about customer care, just wants to talk about being Bruce
Springsteen.

GROSS: The other great thing about this scene is he does all these horrible
things that make you so uncomfortable when a bad performer is singing in a
small room.

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah.

GROSS: He looks people in the eyes in a kind of dreamy way and...

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah. Excruciating, isn't it?

GROSS: Exactly.

Mr. GERVAIS: Absolutely excruciating. The white man overbite to show he's
really getting into it.

GROSS: Oh, yes. He bites his lips to show how sensitive he's being.

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, awful.

GROSS: Now as a musician yourself, is this something that you've done or that
you've just...

Mr. GERVAIS: I'll stop you there. Failed musician. Let's get it right.

GROSS: OK. That's fine.

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah.

GROSS: Is this something that you fear you've done yourself?

Mr. GERVAIS: Failed musician, I'll have you know. Yeah, yeah.

GROSS: So is this some...

Mr. GERVAIS: No, no, I hope I was never like that, and it was...

GROSS: But you've seen people be that way.

Mr. GERVAIS: And I wasn't 40, so I hope there's enough distance between me
and David Brent there.

GROSS: My guest is Ricky Gervais, star and co-creator of the BBC America
sitcom "The Office." We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: My guest is Ricky Gervais, co-creator and star of the British sitcom
"The Office."

"The Office" is shot as a mock documentary, because, you know, we're not only
seeing the scenes in the office, there are scenes in which the individual
characters are talking one-on-one behind the scenes with the camera, sharing
their insights into the office and their opinions of theirselves and their
personal philosophies. Why did you want to shoot it as a mock documentary?

Mr. GERVAIS: Well, that sort of seemed the most obvious way to shoot it, for
a few reasons. One, we'd come out of, in England, about five years where
docu-soaps were like the biggest thing on television. Normal people being
followed around at work, and there was one called "Hotel," one called
"Airport," and if you shoot like 10 people in a job, one of them's usually the
character, and they were getting a bit famous. They were getting their Andy
Warhol 15 minutes. And I was fascinated by that, that celebrity, that D-list
celebrity, people's just quest for fame on any level. I've always been
fascinated with why people just want to be famous. You speak to people, like,
`Oh, I want to be famous,' and you say, `As what?' They go, `It doesn't
matter.' And I've never understood that.

And I've thought the best way to shoot it would be with their consent. So if
it was a close narrative and this guy was going around, you'd think, `Well,
why is he acting like that?' Well, because the camera's there, you go, `Oh, I
get it. He thinks he's brilliant. He thinks the camera's his friend, and he
doesn't learn.' You know, if he just sat down and said, `Get the cameras out
of there,' life would be OK. But because he thinks this is his salvation,
it's so much worse. So that's why really. It just wrung out the awful,
cringeworthy nature of the whole thing. And particularly when he looks down
the lens at you, you suddenly go, `Oh, God, he's looking at me,' and it makes
it even more awful to watch, 'cause it suddenly draws you in, 'cause
embarrassment is sort of catching. If someone embarrassed themselves, you're
sort of embarrassed as well.

GROSS: I've got to get in another scene here, and this is a scene from the
second season of "The Office," which is now out on DVD, and in this season,
two branches of this paper office have merged so that there are new people in
David Brent's office now, and the manager from the second office is now David
Brent's boss, but David Brent is still overseeing, you know, some of the new
people who have come in. And, you know, he thinks he's so funny and he's been
telling this, like, off-color joke about the virility of black men, and a lot
of people have been really offended by it. They've complained to his boss.
So here he is with the new people on the staff trying to explain himself.

(Soundbite of "The Office")

Mr. GERVAIS: (As David Brent) Now some of you maybe didn't understand the
jokes I was making, or misinterpreted one and went to Jennifer. OK. Little
bit annoyed that you thought you'd go to Jennifer and not me. Who was it that
complai--and it's not a witch hunt. Just who was it that--OK, well, two of
you. Good. Right. Why did you think you'd go to Jennifer but not me?

Unidentified Woman #1: Because I don't know you and I didn't like the kind of
joke you were telling.

Mr. GERVAIS: So--wow.

Unidentified Woman #1: And I don't think somebody in your position should be
laughing at black people.

Mr. GERVAIS: It's funny that only two of you thought that, out of everyone,
but, you know, everyone's...

Unidentified Man #4: I didn't like it either.

Mr. GERVAIS: Right. Proves my point. Swindon, you're new. You don't
know me.

Unidentified Man #5: I'm not new and I found it quite offensive.

Mr. GERVAIS: Right. Well, he didn't, so...

Unidentified Woman #1: But what's he got to do with it?

Mr. GERVAIS: Well, if he doesn't mind us laughing at him, what harm's been
done, is what...

Unidentified Woman #1: Well, why is it that only black people should be
offended by racism?

Mr. GERVAIS: Good point. Yeah. First sensible thing you've said all day.
Yeah. Because I say, `Come one, come all, we're all the same, yeah.'
That's...

Unidentified Woman #1: So is that why you've only got one black guy in the
whole organization?

Mr. GERVAIS: Wrong. Yeah. Indian fellow in the warehouse, and there used to
be one--Indian fellow who used to work up here. Lovely chap. He left.
Didn't like it. Up to him, you know. If I had my way, the place would be
full of them. Wouldn't it, Gareth?

Unidentified Man #6: Yeah, well, half and half.

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah. You are half and half, aren't you?

Unidentified Man #7: I'm mixed race, yes.

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah. That is my favorite, yeah. Yeah. That is what I'm
trying to--that's the melting pot, please. So there's your racist for you.

GROSS: That's a scene from "The Office," season two. My guest is Ricky
Gervais, who plays David Brent and co-created the series.

Ricky Gervais, I love that scene. He's just doing absolutely everything
wrong. As if telling a joke wasn't problem enough, he just keeps...

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah.

GROSS: ...getting himself deeper and deeper, and he has no idea what's wrong
with anything that he says, and I'm wondering what kind of situations you've
seen like this.

Mr. GERVAIS: Well, the thing is, another theme about it is obviously men as
boys, boredom, underachievement, wasting your life. But one of the other
scenes is those people who know what political correctness is and, you know,
David Brent isn't a racist, he isn't a homophobe, he isn't particularly
sexist, but to make sure you know he isn't, he acts inappropriately over the
top. He goes too far, you know. If he just acted normally, no one would
accuse him of those things, but he wants to overcompensate. Like when the
black guy comes, every chance he gets he sidles up to him and says things
like, `Oh, Denzel Washington's good, isn't he?' The guy goes--then he goes,
`Not my favorite, though. My favorite actor of all time is Sidney Poitier.'
And, of course, he's just trying to get in black references. He wants to go
up to him and go, `I'm not racist. I'm not a racist.' And it's just--he
doesn't know how to behave.

GROSS: How did you first start performing?

Mr. GERVAIS: Sort of by accident. I was the head of speech at a local radio
station. And then...

GROSS: Does that mean like head of talk programming, head of speech?

Mr. GERVAIS: Exactly. Yeah. And I started popping up on air just doing bits
and pieces and, you know, got a few e-mails saying, `He's a funny guy. Who's
that?' And then they gave my own show. And then when I was doing my own
show, someone from Channel 4 phoned and said, `We're starting this new thing.
Do you want to do an audition?' And I did the 11:00 show. So it all sort of
started from there really.

GROSS: Can you describe what your radio show was like?

Mr. GERVAIS: Oh. Oh, dear, what was it like? It wasn't like any other radio
show. It's--I don't consider myself a broadcaster. I don't really think I'm
that articulate. I'm lazy. I barely open my mouth when I talk. I'm not very
good at deejaying, so that gives you some idea.

GROSS: Sounds great.

Mr. GERVAIS: It was a couple of blokes in a room talking like we did in a
pub, as opposed to going, `It's fast approaching 9:23. Well, coming up is
Radiohead. Those guys are great.' And when I first started, I sort of opened
the mike for the first time and I went, `And that's David Bowie,' and one mate
said, `Why are you talking like that?' I went, `I don't know.' And then I
just sort of put my feet up and started talking normally.

GROSS: You have a couple of comedy shows that you've done, stand-up...

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah.

GROSS: ...one called "Animals" and one called "Politics."

Mr. GERVAIS: Yeah.

GROSS: Tell us about "Politics." Are you actually political in it?

Mr. GERVAIS: Well, the joke is, I pretend to be. I come out like I'm gonna
try and change people's attitudes and, of course, I get everything wrong. And
so, for example, when I talk about Nelson Mandela, I say, `Nelson Mandela,
incarcerated for a quarter of a century, came out in 1990, so he's been out
for about 14 years, and he hasn't reoffended. I really think he's going
straight this time, which shows you prison does work.'

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: That's really funny.

Mr. GERVAIS: So it's stuff like that.

GROSS: So you kind of specialize on people who are incomprehending.

Mr. GERVAIS: Well, yeah. The jokes--I think the important thing is, the
joke's always got to be me. However subtle that is or obvious, I think at the
end of the day, a comedian's got to be the target, otherwise he's cold and
he's vain and he's less funny.

GROSS: Well, Ricky Gervais, a pleasure to meet you. Thank you so much for
talking with us.

Mr. GERVAIS: Thank you very much.

GROSS: Ricky Gervais, recorded last April. His sitcom, "The Office," is
currently in reruns on BBC America. A two-hour special will be shown in
October. The series is also out on DVD. A new American version is expected
to premiere on NBC in early 2005, starring Steve Carell, who's well-known
for his work on "The Daily Show." I'm Terry Gross and this is FRESH AIR.

Here's a song featuring another TV boss, Mr. Burns from "The Simpsons."

(Soundbite of "The Simpsons"; music)

Mr. BURNS: (Singing) Smithers, turn on the surveillance monitors.

Mr. SMITHERS: Yes, sir.

Mr. BURNS: (Singing) It's worse than I thought. Each morning at nine they
trickle through the gate. They go home early. They come in late.
(Unintelligible) they stumble through the day, never give a thought to
honest work for honest pay. I knew it shouldn't vex me. I shouldn't take it
hard. I should ignore their capering with a total disregard, but...

Unidentified Singers and Mr. BURNS: (Singing) Look at all those idiots.

Mr. BURNS: (Singing) Look at all those fools.

Unidentified Singers and Mr. BURNS: (Singing) An office full of morons.

Mr. BURNS: (Singing) A factory full of fools.

Unidentified Singers and Mr. BURNS: (Singing) Is it any wonder...

Mr. BURNS: ...that I'm singing, singing the blues.

Mr. SMITHERS: Yours is a heavy burden, sir.

Mr. BURNS: (Singing) I'm just getting started. They make personal phone
calls on company time. They Xerox their buttocks and guess who pays the dime?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Interview: Peter and Bobby Farrelly discuss their work as
filmmakers
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

We're going to hear an interview with the filmmaking duo Peter and Bobby
Farrelly, recorded last December when their latest film, "Stuck On You," was
released. It's just come out on DVD. The Farrelly brothers' other movies
include "Dumb & Dumber," "Kingpin," "There's Something About Mary" and
"Shallow Hal."

"Stuck On You" stars Matt Damon and Greg Kinnear as Bob and Walt Tenner(ph),
conjoined twins attached at the hip. The Farrelly brothers' early work was
known for gross-out bathroom humor, but our film critic, David Edelstein, said
in his review of "Stuck On You," the Farrellys are, quote, "the most
compassionate filmmakers in Hollywood now. They're guerilla humanists working
in the lowest and most infantile of genres with disarming moral authority,"
unquote. In "Stuck On You," the Tenner twins run a diner in a small New
England town. Their teamwork has made them the fastest and most popular
short-order cooks imaginable. When Walt, Greg Kinnear's character, decides he
wants to go to Hollywood and become an actor, his brother obliges. Here's the
conjoined twins having a cup of coffee with an over-the-hill, small-time agent
who's trying to represent Walt. The agent is played by Seymour Cassel.

(Soundbite of "Stuck On You")

Mr. SEYMOUR CASSEL: (As Morty O'Reilly) I want to let you boys know right up
front that Morty O'Reilly only represents actors who are truly committed to
their craft.

Mr. GREG KINNEAR: (As Walt) That's me, Mr. O'Reilly. I am fully committed.

Mr. CASSEL: (As Morty O'Reilly) Committed enough to pay my $200 up-front
service fee which, of course, is used to defray the cost of registration fees,
entitlement, paperwork and what have you.

Mr. MATT DAMON: (As Bob) What are you doing?

Mr. KINNEAR: (As Walt) I'm showing him how committed I am.

Mr. DAMON: (As Bob) You're showing him how stupid you are. Here.

We'll give you $100 because you're only representing one of us.

Mr. CASSEL: (As Morty O'Reilly) Well, I'm going to have to level with you.
Siamese twins ain't the easiest sell I've ever had.

Mr. DAMON: (As Bob) We're not Siamese. We're American.

GROSS: Peter and Bobby Farrelly, welcome to FRESH AIR.

Mr. PETER FARRELLY (Filmmaker): Thank you very much, Terry.

GROSS: Now...

Mr. BOBBY FARRELLY (Filmmaker): Thank you. Great to be here.

GROSS: ...how did you think of the idea of a comedy about conjoined twins in
the first place?

Mr. B. FARRELLY: Well, this is Bobby speaking. And it was based on a
documentary we saw about these two gals. It was back in the 1940s, and I'm
sorry, their names skip me right now. But they were conjoined twins and one
of the gals wanted to go out to Hollywood and become an actress and the other
one had no desire to act, but she thought, `Yeah, you know, I don't want to
hold you back. I'll go with you, sure.' And the girl actually did go out and
got in a few--like, she became sort of a B movie star. And as we were
watching this documentary, we thought, `This is a fascinating story, and, you
know, I think there's a good screenplay around it somewhere.'

GROSS: Were you concerned that people would take it the wrong way and they
would think that you were mocking conjoined twins?

Mr. P. FARRELLY: Not really. This is Peter speaking, by the way. You know,
we always--you know, we go into it with our hearts open and we love the
characters and we're not afraid to show them--you know, put the full spotlight
on them, show, you know, their strengths and their weaknesses. But we always
love these characters, and we knew these people were going to be our heros and
we were going to treat them right. And, truthfully, it never concerns us.
You know, sometimes you worry what the critics will think but, truthfully,
over the years, despite all the talk, we have received zero letters from
anybody who has been offended by any of our movies, despite what you might
read.

GROSS: Now for the twins in your movie who are played by Greg Kinnear and
Matt Damon, they're really happy to be attached to each other, they love each
other, they have a great time together and they're really cooperative. One is
always making a sacrifice for the other so that the other can do what they
want to do whether it's making a movie or making love. And I'm wondering what
are some of the sacrifices you think you've made for each other so that the
other could do what they wanted to do.

Mr. P. FARRELLY: Wow! Ah--boy.

Mr. B. FARRELLY: Well, I'll tell you once--a story that Pete did for me just
growing up. And--is my dad came home one time. We were about 11 or 12 years
old, and somehow or another he had gotten a couple of tickets to the World
Series game and it was in Pittsburgh, but he only had two tickets. It was one
for him and then one for one of us. And he went to Pete and said, `Look,
you're the oldest, I'll--you know, I'm going to take you to the game.' And
Pete said, `No, no, no, no, don't take me. You know, take Bobby.' And then
he said, `Really? You sure?' He said, `Yeah, yeah, yeah, he'd love it.' And
then--so my father came to me and said, `You know, I've got a ticket to the
game, the World Series and I've only got one. You want to go?' And I'm,
like, `Sure.' You know, it didn't occur to me to say, you know, `No, take
Pete.' But I was young and dumb and I--but then later I found out that--what
Peter had done, thinking of his--you know, his brother before himself, and
I've been very grateful ever since.

Mr. P. FARRELLY: Well...

Mr. B. FARRELLY: And one day I'll pay you back, Pete.

Mr. P. FARRELLY: Well, you know, it sounds a lot better with a little time.
But at the time, you know, looking back, I think at the time I just didn't
really want to spend that much time with my father taking the trip all the way
to Pittsburgh.

GROSS: Well, let's hope he's not listening now.

Mr. P. FARRELLY: No, actually, I'm kidding. Bob was a national league fan,
and, you know, my father knew some people who knew people with the Pirates and
I just thought he'd like it more. But, by the way, you know, we had a couple
of conjoined twins serve as consultants on this movie--Lori and Dori
Schappell. And it--we really learned a lot about--you know, I--we went in
under the impression that these people, they must do the same thing, same
hobbies, same jobs, and it was far from that. In fact, you know, one of
Schappell sisters is a country western singer and the other one worked in a
hospital when we were dealing with them. And they had completely different
hobbies, and it really was about, you know, giving of each other's time. And
in a very, like, thoughtful but, sort of, innate way, they didn't--it was just
such a natural thing for them.

GROSS: Do you feel that as time goes on you have less, quote, "gross-out
humor" in your movies and just more, like, funny lines and sight gags and a
lot of heart, but that there's less kind of gross stuff?

Mr. P. FARRELLY: Well, you know, the truth is, you know, we don't sit down
to--when we write a movie--This is Pete again--you know, we don't sit down and
think, you know, `Geez, we had some--you know, we had the hair gel in "Mary"
and what could we come up here?' The first thing we do is we try to create a
character or characters that, you know, are so likable that we can hang a lot
of our gags on. And then our gags are basically trying to give you the
unexpected. You know, when we did "Dumb & Dumber" and Jeff Daniels walks into
the bathroom and sits down, well, you know, up to that point in time,
everybody at that--you know, would shut the bathroom door and you'd cut to
something else, and we thought, `Well, how funny it would be just to let it
play.' And the reason that was funny then and I don't think it would be funny
now is because of the unexpectedness of it. People could not believe we were
actually letting the camera roll while he's on the toilet. Now if you did
that today, because of--there's been a lot of this type of thing, it wouldn't
be as interesting.

GROSS: I'm glad you mentioned the now-famous toilet scene from "Dumb &
Dumber." One of the things that's just really hysterical about this scene is
that, you know, he's on the toilet, the camera's watching him, he's not only
doing his business, he's doing a lot of business, and then he finds out from a
knock on the door that the toilet's broken and it won't flush, and so he's
really stuck. This is--you know, he's not at home. And who hasn't either had
that nightmare or had that happen to them and suddenly it's not--it's no
longer just, `Oh, isn't that gross.' It's like, `Wow, this is like a nightmare
come true.'

Mr. P. FARRELLY: You know, it's really interesting to us how--you know, our
country is really very uptight, and, you know, I guess it goes back to the
Puritans and all that stuff, but very uptight about anything sexual or bodily
functions or, you know, even things like people with disabilities. They don't
want to deal with that kind of stuff and they find it--you know, this is the
kind of stuff that they call gross-out humor whereas they're very
accepting--our country has a strong stomach for violence. For instance, like
in a Coen brothers movie--and by the way, Coens are the best. We think
they're tremendous, but in their kind of movies when, you know--"Fargo," for
instance, when they turn a guy upside-down and put him in a wood chipper, that
is somehow viewed as arty, and people really--you know, to us that's gross.
But, you know--and bodily functions are just, you know--it's something
everybody deals with. People don't deal with people being chopped up in a
wood chipper, yet it seems to be accepted quite readily by the American
public.

GROSS: Well, you're great at doing the things, at showing the things that
you're not supposed to let anybody else see, that you're only supposed to do
behind closed doors whether it's going to the bathroom or masturbating, and
the idea of how embarrassing it would be if you were seen doing that or if the
after-effects of that were seen is something that you really work with, and I
wonder if you guys embarrass easily?

Mr. P. FARRELLY: Not so much now probably.

Mr. B. FARRELLY: These stories, like Jeff Daniels on the toilet and all are
things that have happened to us. They've happened to us or they've happened
to a good friend of ours. You know, I remember reading an article
where Clint Eastwood was talking about "Dumb & Dumber" and he said he had that
exact same bathroom experience happen to him one time and he was just on the
floor laughing watching it. And it's just--you know, if it's based in truth,
it's funny.

Mr. P. FARRELLY: Yeah, and I think that's why "Something About Mary" worked
so well. Like, the--you know, when--people laughed because they all
recognized it. They're like, `Oh, I remember when I had the semen on my ear.'
So it's sort of a universal thing.

GROSS: Did that actually--did that gag actually come from real-life?

Mr. P. FARRELLY: No, that one didn't.

GROSS: ...(Unintelligible), right.

Mr. B. FARRELLY: We don't--yeah, we make some of them up.

GROSS: Right.

Mr. P. FARRELLY: You know, the truth of the matter is that's one of our--you
know, people always ask us, say, `Hey, who wrote that joke? Who wrote this
joke?' Well, you know, we--it kind of--we never quite remember because it's
usually not one person. It's sort of like somebody has an idea and someone
pushes it further and that's like a great example of how we write. You know,
I had actually--this is Pete.

I had actually thought at some point, `Well, what would happen if you were
masturbating and you lost the product, you know, and you couldn't find it?'
But I thought, `Well, you can't really do that.' But I ran it by Bob. I
said, `Is this doable in a movie if--you know, if somebody lost'--he said,
`Yeah, you could, but then what happens?' I said, `Geez, I don't know.' He
said, `Well, think about it. That's what's interesting. Where is it?' And
he said, `Well, I mean, like, what if it was, like, on the guy's ear and he
doesn't know it?' And now we're laughing and we're thinking, `That's funny.
It's on his ear. Well, what could be a good situation, now it's on his ear?'
And we said, `Well, what if he's going to have a date or something, you know,'
and it goes to the next thing. All of a sudden she's there, she sees it, what
would she think it is? And then, you know, someone says, `Well, what if she
thought it was'--I don't know, he could say it's hair gel.' And then we, you
know, literally, like, 20 minutes later somebody says, `Well, what--if she
thought it was hair gel, she might put it in her hair.' And we're laughing,
and then another hour later some--we'd say, `Well, wait a second. Wouldn't it
harden?' And all of a sudden, you know, that's a day's work for us.

Mr. B. FARRELLY: That was a good day, too.

GROSS: Now since you're often working in territory that people find really
embarrassing, the kind of sexual and body function territory, have you learned
ways not to do the gags? Ways where it's either going to be too gross or too
embarrassing or not funny enough and it won't work?

Mr. B. FARRELLY: Well, I'll give you an example of one that we did and it's
not necessarily bodily function gag, but on--it was one of the first days we
were ever shooting on "Dumb & Dumber," and we were on the mountain and up in
the snow and we came up with the idea of shooting this little scene where
Lauren Holly picks up a little snow and gently throws it at Jeff Daniels. And
he being dumb and dumber, you know, doesn't know how to play, so he rolls up a
big snowball and just fires it off her face, you know. Well, when we showed
it to an audience, they just howled laughing that he would hit Lauren in the
face with a snowball.

But we had made a mistake. When she came up with the snow on her face, we had
put a little drop of blood under her nose and the audience went from just
howling laughter to when they saw the blood, it just stopped. And we were
thinking to ourselves, `Man, we made a mistake putting that in.' So we
actually had to go back and digitally remove the blood spot from under her
nose. And once we did, the audience just kept laughing and laughing and
laughing, and it was just someone getting hit by a snowball. No one's hurt.
So it was like, occasionally you do make a mistake by going too far, and that
was a rule we learned, is that if someone gets hurt, all of a sudden it's not
funny. If someone just gets embarrassed, it can remain very funny.

GROSS: My guests are the directing and screenwriting duo of Peter and Bobby
Farrelly. Their latest movie, "Stuck On You," was just released on DVD. More
after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: My guests are the filmmaking duo Peter and Bobby Farrelly. Their
movies include "Dumb & Dumber" and "There's Something About Mary." Their
latest movie, "Stuck On You," has just come out on DVD.

In a lot of your movies, the main character has some kind of, like, disability
or shortcoming, whether it's that he's incredibly stupid or he's a bowler who
has, like, a rubber prosthetic hand or they're conjoined twins, as in "Stuck
On You." Did you go through your early years thinking that you had some kind
of real handicap?

Mr. P. FARRELLY: No. You know, we had a very, very nice upbringing. You
know, I would say the only way--you know, at times we felt like outcasts
because we were sent away to many schools. We weren't good students. But
other than that, we had the same group of friends in our town, and, you know,
we fit in. You know, we weren't outcasts at all. But, you know, we're just
drawn to people with disabilities because, you know, they're--it's--well, for
one thing, we know a lot. You know, we've been involved in the Best Buddies
program for a long time, which is a mentoring program for people with mental
retardation. And, you know--so we've hung around a lot of people with that
disability and also a friend of ours named Danny Murphy broke his neck when
we were kids and he's a quadriplegic and, you know, through him, you know,
we've met a lot of other people with disabilities. So I think we're just
comfortable around that type of person and we like them and feel, you know, we
want to write about them.

GROSS: Were you shy around girls when you were, say, in high school? Because
most of your male characters have real problems with women because they think
of themselves as too ugly or too stupid or they just don't get it.

Mr. B. FARRELLY: Yeah, we were not particularly good with women nor are we
now, but I think what we try to accomplish in the movie with the guys is that
they shoot out of their league, you know. Like in "Something About Mary," she
was--he just--you know, I think that Ben Stiller's character would just--you
know, fell for Mary, and I think that there was a part of him who just
thought, `She's the best woman in the world and I don't know that I'm the best
guy in the world, but I love her,' you know. I go, `Geez.' But, yeah, I think
deep down he thinks that she's out of his league, which she is.

Mr. P. FARRELLY: But, you know, the thing--you know, the reason I think that
movie crossed over and women as well as guys liked it is because of the one
scene in it where, you know, he hires a private eye, the private eye finds
her, falls in love with her, comes back and says--reports that she's put on a
lot of weight and she's on welfare, she's been married a bunch of times, has a
lot of kids out of wedlock and so on and so forth. And he lies in bed that
night and thinks about it. He comes back the next day and says, `I still got
to find her.' He says, `Why?' He says, `Well, I can't just turn it off like
that. I still feel something.' And I think that's the moment in the movie
where women say, `OK, he deserves her.' Because, you know, obviously, it's not
hard to fall in love with Cameron Diaz.

GROSS: Right. Right. Let me ask you about "Shallow Hal." And this is a
movie in which Jack Black plays somebody who has--I mean, you know, he's a
young man who isn't very good at getting girlfriends. And, of course, the
girls he's attracted to are really beautiful and, you know, quote, "out of his
league."

Mr. P. FARRELLY: Right.

GROSS: But he's kind of put under this hypnotic spell so he sees the beauty
underneath the surface. So no matter how somebody looks physically he sees
who they really are. So even if they're, like, obese, if they're beautiful
inside, he will see them as a physically beautiful person. That's what
happens with Gwyneth Paltrow. She's actually quite fat, but because she's,
you know, a beautiful person, he sees her as how Gwyneth Paltrow really looks.
How did you come up with the concept for that film?

Mr. B. FARRELLY: That was actually a concept that a friend of ours pitched
to us, Sean Moynihan. And what's interesting about it is that Sean has a eye
disease called macular degeneration where he is legally blind. And so he, you
know, lives his life differently than everybody because, I mean, if he's with
a girl, if somebody sets him up, he'd be, like, coming over, you know, `How
does she look?' He actually has a hard time almost forming his opinion about
how she looks physically because he can just barely see her. So he's a guy
who needs to look, you know, more inside someone as I'm sure all blind people
do. And he came up with this idea, `Well, what if a guy was hypnotized where
he just saw the inside of somebody, just saw their recognized inner beauty
and--you know, to him and that's what he saw.' So we thought, `That's a novel
idea. That's real interesting.' So, collectively, we wrote the script.

Mr. P. FARRELLY: You know, the press kind of jumped on this. There was you
know, sort of, a couple people yapping about it, saying that, you know, it was
making fun of overweight people and it was the furthest from the truth. In
fact, you know, that movie was really celebrating inner beauty and saying
that, you know, it doesn't matter how you are on the outside. You know, it's
all about what's inside. And it was sort of disheartening to us to have to
answer so many questions about that because we felt that the movie spoke for
itself. But, for some reason, it seemed like there was just a--you know,
there were a couple people who had an agenda at the time and I think they
confused some people. And I think people stayed away from it, some people
because they thought we were making fun of heavy people, which we weren't.

GROSS: My guests are the filmmaking duo, the Farrelly brothers. Their latest
movie, "Stuck On You," was just released on DVD. We'll talk more after a
break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: My guests are the filmmaking duo Peter and Bobby Farrelly. Their
movies include "Dumb & Dumber" and "There's Something About Mary." Their
latest movie, "Stuck On You," has just come out on DVD.

Here's a scene from "There's Something About Mary." It's a flashback to Ben
Stiller's prom night. He's at his date Mary's house in her bathroom. His
privates are caught in the zipper of his fly and everyone is coming to the
rescue--Mary's parents, a policeman and a fireman. Here's the fireman calling
for backup.

(Soundbite of "There's Something About Mary")

Mr. LENNY CLARKE: (As Lenny) Hi, Eddie. Get down here quick. Bring
everybody, bring a camera. You're not going to believe this. We got a kid
down here...

What's your name?

Mr. BEN STILLER: (As Ted Stroehmann) Oh, I...

Unidentified Man #1: No, there's only one thing to do here.

Mr. STILLER (As Ted Stroehmann): You know what? I got an idea. I got an
idea. Look, look. I can just--you don't have to do anything because, look, I
can just wear this over the front. Look, I can go to the prom. We'll deal
with it later.

Unidentified Man #2: Relax.

Mr. STILLER: (As Ted Stroehmann) I...

Unidentified Man #2: You're already ...(unintelligible). That's the hard
part. Now we're just going to back it up.

Ms. MARKIE POST: (As Sheila Jensen) Teddy, be brave.

Unidentified Man #1: It's just like pulling off a Band-Aid. A one and a two
and a...

Unidentified Man #3: We got a bleeder.

Unidentified Man #4: Keep the pressure on. Keep it on. Everybody get out of
the way.

GROSS: What do you think you get out of working as a team most of the time
that you wouldn't be able to do if you were working individually?

Mr. P. FARRELLY: That's a really good question, because, in fact, that's--you
know, there are a lot of brother teams out there today--the Coens, the
Farrellys, Wachowskis, Hughes, you know, Weitzes and Zuckers, so on and so
forth. And I think if you look at all--each brother team, they're pretty
distinctive. They all have a very distinctive point of view. And what you're
able to do when you have a brother is you're able to defend that--you know, I
don't want to--vision sounds a little artsier than it is, really, but you're
able to defend your point of view. You know, if you're one person and you go
in and you try to do a "Something About Mary," the studio is going to be,
like, `Whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing here? This is a little much,' you
know, and you could be beaten down where you're saying, `OK,' and your
compromising. But when there's two of you, if I start getting weak--This is
Pete speaking--Bob will say, `Uh-uh, uh-uh, don't--come on, don't back down
now. Now'--you know, and vice versa. If I see him weakening, I might, `No,
no, Bob, this is what we can do.' We lift each other up and we're able to see
that through and basically, you know, fight the fights better.

GROSS: In your new movie, "Stuck On You," about the conjoined twins, they
have, like, a diner in which they flip burgers. And one of the people who
works at the diner is developmentally disabled and he, I believe, is played by
a person who actually is developmentally disabled. At the...

Mr. B. FARRELLY: His name is Rocket. He's basically playing himself.

GROSS: Uh-huh. Does he work at a shop like that?

Mr. B. FARRELLY: No, he doesn't, but his name's Rocket Valliere, and he's a
friend of ours from home and that--and he's--like I said, his character's the
same as we know him. But I'm sorry, Go ahead.

GROSS: How did you approach him to be in the movie?

Mr. B. FARRELLY: He's a fantastically interesting guy who--he's a savant.
He is developmentally disabled, but he's a savant, too, and he knows more
about movies and movie lore and movie history and actresses and actors than
any three people I know combined. And I don't even know how he knows it all,
but he has an encyclopedic knowledge about everything in the business. So
he's wildly entertaining and is infatuated with anything to do with the
movies. So, you know, we know him, we're very friendly with him. We always
thought that we'd love to put him in a movie and give him a good part, and in
"Stuck On You," we came up with the perfect situation.

GROSS: Did you know him--like, how long have you known him?

Mr. P. FARRELLY: We've known him about 10 years or so.

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. P. FARRELLY: He is good friends with a guy we know named Tommy Songin
who is a hockey player, grew up near us, actually, played at Mount Saint
Charles Academy in Rhode Island and then for the Boston Bruins for a time.
But we see him around quite a bit. And he had bumped into Rocket about 15
years ago in a diner. Rocket was having lunch alone. He saw him there
several days in a row and finally invited him to his table, and they've ended
up, you know, sort of best friends. I'll say they take care of each other.
You know, Tommy thinks he's taking care of Rocket and Rocket thinks he's
taking care of Tommy, and I don't know who's right. But we see them all the
time. And Rocket is such a great character and interesting guy, we just
wanted to get his mug up there and get him talking. It's just--you know, it's
fun to have him on the set and it was fun to put him in the movie.

Mr. B. FARRELLY: Yeah, and one of the last things that happened was we were
shooting a dance number where he was actually dancing with Meryl Streep. And
after they finished their take, we yelled, `Cut,' and we gave them, you know,
an applause because they had done a nice job and all of a sudden Rocket was up
there on the stage and he just kind of became inspired and he sang "Old Man
River" for us, which was, like, `Wow, that was great,' you know, and then we
clapped again. And then he went into this spontaneous--like an acceptance
speech, like he had just won the Oscar, and he gave this beautiful, moving
speech thanking all the people in his life who were important and we just kind
of kept the cameras rolling on it and, you know, people in the crew who were
watching, I mean, just crying watching. You know, he's such a beautiful guy,
Rocket. Anyway, because we had filmed it, we thought it might be a nice
little something to put in the end credits. So at the very end of the movie,
that--Rocket's acceptance speech is there.

GROSS: Thank you so much for talking with us.

Mr. P. FARRELLY: Hey, thank you, Terry.

Mr. B. FARRELLY: Thank you. Thanks a lot, Terry.

Mr. P. FARRELLY: Real pleasure.

GROSS: Peter and Bobby Farrelly recorded last December. Their latest film,
"Stuck On You," just came out on DVD.

(Credits)
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