A police officer investigates her own sister's disappearance in 'Long Bright River'

TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. Let's go back to the year 2000. A young Seth Rogen and his writing partner, Evan Goldberg, have arrived from Canada, and they're meeting with a studio executive to go over a screenplay they've written together. During the meeting, the executive makes a cynical confession. I got into this job because I love movies, he says, and now I feel like it's my job to ruin them. Rogen and Goldberg never forgot what that executive said.

And 25 years later, they've made it the basis of a new satirical comedy series called "The Studio." Rogen plays Matt Remick, a Hollywood executive who gets an unexpected promotion as the head of the fictional Continental Studios after his boss is fired. In this scene, the CEO of the studio, played by Bryan Cranston, offers Matt the job but asks if Matt really has what it takes to do it the Continental way.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE STUDIO")

BRYAN CRANSTON: (As Griffin Mill) Patty's time has come and gone, and I'm seriously considering you to replace her.

SETH ROGEN: (As Matt Remick) Oh, my God. Yes, yes. I'm the guy. I'm the guy for the job.

CRANSTON: (As Griffin Mill) Why are - tell me that. Why are you the guy?

ROGEN: (As Matt Remick) Well, I've worked at Continental for 22 years. I bought the original-spec script for "MK Ultra," which, as I'm sure you know, spawned a franchise that's made us over $3 billion for the...

CRANSTON: (As Griffin Mill) Hey. Renae, where the [expletive] is my green juice? You want a green juice?

ROGEN: (As Matt Remick) Yeah, I'd love one.

CRANSTON: (As Griffin Mill) Two green juices now.

RENAE ANDERSON: (As self) Yes, sir.

CRANSTON: (As Griffin Mill) Sorry. Continue.

ROGEN: (As Matt Remick) Film is my life. Ever since I came to the studio as a kid and went on the tour, being the head of Continental is the only job I've ever wanted.

CRANSTON: (As Griffin Mill) That is adorable. All right, well, listen. I honestly just have one strong reservation about you.

ROGEN: (As Matt Remick) Oh.

CRANSTON: (As Griffin Mill) I've heard you are really into artsy-fartsy filmmaking bull [expletive]. Now, you're obsessed with actors and directors liking you rather than being obsessed with making this studio as much money as possible.

ROGEN: (As Matt Remick) Me?

CRANSTON: (As Griffin Mill) Yeah.

ROGEN: (As Matt Remick) That could not be further from the truth. I am as bottom-line-oriented as anyone in this town.

CRANSTON: (As Griffin Mill) I believe you.

ROGEN: (As Matt Remick) Great.

CRANSTON: (As Griffin Mill) Good.

ROGEN: (As Matt Remick) Good.

CRANSTON: (As Griffin Mill) Because at Continental, we don't make films. We make movies - movies that people want to pay to see.

ROGEN: (As Matt Remick) Yes.

MOSLEY: From there, the audience is taken on a funny but also absurd and often cringeworthy adventure as Matt - always flustered and desperately needing to be liked - has to find ways to keep the studio afloat. Seth Rogen has produced, directed, written and starred in many films, including "Superbad," "Knocked Up," "This Is The End," "Sausage Party" and the limited series "Pam & Tommy." He founded the production company Point Grey Pictures along with his writing and directing partner, Evan Goldberg, and the two have founded the cannabis products and home goods company Houseplant. And Seth Rogen, welcome back to FRESH AIR.

ROGEN: Thank you. What an intro (laughter).

MOSLEY: Well, I really want to go back to this time, 2000.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: You and Evan are in this executive's office.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: And he says this thing to you, like...

ROGEN: Yep.

MOSLEY: ...I now ruin movies.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: Like, what was your reaction?

ROGEN: I was shocked by the honesty, honestly. Like, I really could tell that he was in a position and that point in his career. And that person still works in Hollywood - is one of the heads of one of the major studios in Hollywood. So he stuck around (laughter). And it was an ancient Roman teen sex comedy (laughter).

MOSLEY: Oh, really?

ROGEN: Yeah, so...

MOSLEY: So this wasn't "Superbad" or something. This was, like (laughter)...

ROGEN: Well, what's funny is we had written "Superbad," and no one was making it, and that's how we got the job for this movie. And honestly, we were like, let's just put all of, like, our ideas from "Superbad" into the movie, basically.

MOSLEY: Oh, my gosh.

ROGEN: And so that's how desperate we were to make something. And so we sort of became, like, an ancient Roman version of "Superbad," which, as I say it, is insane. But - and it was very dirty. It was very dirty.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ROGEN: And what I recall - I think at the point in this process, yeah, we had handed him a draft that he really thought was funny, and we thought was funny and was ridiculous and crazy. And he was telling us in this notes meeting that, like, it couldn't be so dirty, and it was clearly the notes he had been given from on high. And so in a very honest moment, he said that. And I don't know if the execs I've worked with over the years would agree, but I've always had a sympathy for - I think because of that, I've always felt like it really humanized the job in a lot of ways...

MOSLEY: Right.

ROGEN: ...And made me understand, you know, from a pretty young age, yeah, that, like, a lot of these - not all of them, but a lot of them are people who love movies, but who are constantly put in positions where they have to either, you know, maybe be fired or do something kind of risky.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ROGEN: And I think more of them should do something risky, and that will actually lead to better things. But, you know, I understand why they don't. I don't agree with it necessarily, but I understand it. And it's a very comedic situation to be in, you know?

MOSLEY: Right. I mean...

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: ...That's the thing. You have a lot of sympathy for them because of this very formative experience for you.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: But also, you say it's, like, the funniest job in all of Hollywood.

ROGEN: Yeah, it's a very tragic job.

(LAUGHTER)

ROGEN: I think tragedy is comedy...

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ROGEN: ...In a lot of ways, you know? And a lot of them, yeah, like, because they love movies and they grow up - now I'm at the age even where, like, some of the people I work with grew up watching our movies and stuff like that.

MOSLEY: Yep.

ROGEN: You know what I mean?

MOSLEY: Yep.

ROGEN: And for the first time in my life, like, I'm older than the execs I'm working with at some of these companies. And so they - I'm one of the people they probably grew up watching, and they are constantly put in a position where they have to say things that make me really mad at them (laughter). And I would imagine that's a huge bummer. And I've seen it over and - I remember an exec, like, hiding from a movie star, like, literally in his office.

MOSLEY: (Laughter).

ROGEN: 'Cause he was avoiding - 'cause the movie wasn't tracking well, and he was avoiding...

MOSLEY: He didn't want to be the one to tell it...

ROGEN: ...Seeing him on the lot.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ROGEN: And he knew he was mad. He knew the movie star was there for a meeting and was mad, and he didn't want to get yelled at, basically.

MOSLEY: Yes.

ROGEN: And he's like - I remember him being like, I love that this guy's one of my favorite actors of all time, and he wants to scream at me. And, like, that to us was - again, it was just funny.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ROGEN: It just always struck us as very funny, you know?

MOSLEY: Is it true that you interviewed almost every Hollywood executive for this series?

ROGEN: Yeah. We interviewed a lot of them, whether they knew it or not. Some of them, it was just, like, us milking information from them without them - and some were very formal interviews where they came in. But a lot of the stuff from those interviews worked their way directly into episodes of the show.

MOSLEY: Yeah. I - OK, let's get into the series because I think you said something like 85% of the - (laughter) of what is in it is actually true...

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: ...To some extent.

ROGEN: For sure.

MOSLEY: And talking about interviewing these executives...

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: ...If this stuff is true, oh my gosh, 'cause it's, like, the cringiest scenarios ever.

ROGEN: Oh, yes. I think we're actually - and, like, if anything, I think we paint, like, a pretty sympathetic picture of the situation that, you know, I think to a lot of people's experiences is probably, you know, an optimistic view of what Hollywood is.

(LAUGHTER)

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: OK. The characters are phenomenal. I mentioned Catherine O'Hara, who is...

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: She was your boss. She was fired, and you take over her job. Ike Barinholtz, who plays this powerful, lower-level executive desperate for power - he is hilarious.

ROGEN: Yeah, he's great.

MOSLEY: Kathryn Hahn, who plays this aggressive marketing chief...

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: ...With lots of opinions.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: Chase Sui Wonders, who plays an ambitious young executive.

ROGEN: Yep.

MOSLEY: And she does a couple of shady things to, like, get over.

ROGEN: Oh, yeah, as an ambitious, young executive...

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ROGEN: ...Will do.

(LAUGHTER)

MOSLEY: And then there's the host of actors and filmmakers with very, very fragile egos. And then how would you describe your character, Matt Remick?

ROGEN: I would describe my character as someone who grew up loving movies and who worked very hard to be someone who got to make movies. And I think he's someone who wishes he was very creative but is not, and who kind of views himself as creative but simply isn't. And so his avenue to "filmmaking," quote-unquote, I guess, became being a studio executive. And he's very ambitious and very

ROGEN: self-preservational and someone who will do the thing that allows him to keep going rather than to perhaps lose it all. And he's someone who's constantly put in a position to really disappoint both himself and the people that he idolizes and the medium that he idolizes, you know?

MOSLEY: He's also walking around all the time, terrified.

: Yes, he's very panicked and stressed out and wears it on his sleeve and does not - and that's based on some specific people I know is that they wear their panic, like, clearly. Like, they have a bad poker face, and that is very much something my character has as someone who is never trying to calm a situation and always subscribing to, like, the worst-case scenario, basically, you know (laughter)?

MOSLEY: But that's, like, the great tension of the series. So it's set in present day, and...

: Yeah.

MOSLEY: ...All of these executives, like, they're up against the real challenges of the moment.

: Yes.

MOSLEY: AI plays a big role.

: Yeah.

MOSLEY: Racial sensitivity. Like, there's all these different things...

: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

MOSLEY: ...That - but your character, he wants to make art.

: He really does.

MOSLEY: He wants to make film.

: Yeah. And it's really making fun of me in a lot of ways, you know? And I don't have, like, delusions of grandeur. I think my character in the show has, but I think it's inspired by the same belief that, like, one movie can change the entire course of Hollywood. And I don't think I'm going to be the person to make that movie necessarily. But...

MOSLEY: But did you want to at one time?

: Yeah. And - for sure. And I think if you're an ambitious executive who's obsessed with Robert Evans, then you - then you really think you could do that, you know? And so I think it's a silly goal to have, and my character has specifically that goal. I think he wants to be viewed as, like, the savior of this town, you know?

MOSLEY: Yeah.

: And that is not an ambition I specifically have, but it's something that - I understand where that idea...

MOSLEY: Right.

: ...Comes from.

MOSLEY: You mentioned Robert Evans, and you often reference him. Can you explain who he is?

: Yeah, Robert Evans was an independent producer in Hollywood in the '70s who eventually became the head of Paramount. And essentially, like, championed some of the biggest films of the '70s, like "Chinatown" and "The Godfather." And he was known for being one of the few people who was "beloved by the talent," quote-unquote, who made incredibly successful movies and who made incredibly good movies. And he also has the distinction of being, if not the only one of the few studio heads who negotiated in their deal that their name was actually on the movie, which is a big plot line in the show that your name isn't on the movie. And he actually had his name on the movie, even though he was running the studio because he understood the importance of his legacy.

MOSLEY: That really was such an enlightening moment for me in thinking about how everyone behind the scenes, including the studio execs, how meaningful it is at award ceremonies to hear your name.

: Yeah. I've been a part of films that won awards and seen some executives in the wake of that who did not get thanked, and they were literally in tears. And as we interviewed a lot of the execs in Hollywood, that was, like, a very common theme, where they admitted, like, you want to be thanked by first and last name. And that distinction was brought up by more than one of them, where, if it's not first and last name, no one knows. Like (laughter)...

MOSLEY: It just really brings more meaning to when we're watching those shows, and you see the actor or the director, and they're, like, naming off the names, and they're like, oh, yeah, let me not forget this person and this...

: Oh, that - one of the most surreal moments of my life was - I'll never forget it - like, my good friend Jay Baruchel was in "Million Dollar Baby." And it was, like, literally me and him alone in my apartment 'cause he was staying with me. Lived in Montreal. We were, like, smoking weed, watching the Oscars, and "Million Dollar Baby" wins best picture. And Clint Eastwood gets up there. And he starts thanking, oh, thank Hilary and Anthony and Jay. And Jay literally, like, leapt off the couch and was just like, (vocalizing). And, like - and it was truly, like, an unbelievable moment 'cause, like, here we are in my, like, terrible apartment - it was disgusting - smoking weed, eating, like, Chinese takeout. And, like, the guy sitting on the couch was thanked by Clint Eastwood as he won best picture...

MOSLEY: The recognition. I know.

: ...In real time. And the recognition. He literally jumped 10 feet up in the air. And so I've seen it. And what's funny is, like, I was at the Golden Globes this year, and a lot of people in that episode were there. And people kept coming up to me, being like, it's just like the episode.

MOSLEY: (Laughter).

: It's exactly like the episode. It's so weird.

MOSLEY: So meta. Right.

: Yeah.

MOSLEY: Yeah. Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, I'm talking with Seth Rogan about his new Apple TV+ series, "The Studio." We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF CYRIAQUE JUIGNER SONG, "RESPIRE")

MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. Today, I'm talking to Seth Rogan about his satirical comedy series, "The Studio," on Apple TV+. Rogan, who serves as a writer, director and executive producer for the series, along with Evan Goldberg, came up with the idea after having an unforgettable meeting with an executive early in their careers. Seth stars as Matt Remick, the newly appointed head of the fictional Hollywood studio named Continental. And as movies struggle to stay alive and relevant, Matt and his core team of in-fighting executives battle their insecurities as they wrangle actors, directors and corporate overlords in their efforts to make films that make money.

OK, I want to play a clip. In this scene, Matt, your character, goes over to his old boss' house, played by Catherine O'Hara, Patty.

: Yeah.

MOSLEY: And to seek some guidance. And the two talk about how he's handling being the new head of the studio. And O'Hara speaks first.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE STUDIO")

CATHERINE O'HARA: (As Patty Leigh) So how do you feel in all this?

: (As Matt Remick) You know, I've worked, obviously, a long time to get here. My - you know, my parents are very thrilled. Very proud. I think Griffin is, you know, optimistic with the plan.

O'HARA: (As Patty Leigh) Matty, not one of those words is about how you feel.

: (As Matt Remick) Yeah. I feel miserable, honestly. I'm anxious, I'm stressed out, panicking pretty much all the time. I was so much happier two weeks ago when I was just angry and resentful that I didn't have this job. I would give anything to be angry and resentful compared to how I feel right now. You know, I walk past the tour guide every morning, and they say that the office was built as a temple to cinema, but it feels much more like a tomb.

O'HARA: (As Patty Leigh) Heavy is the head, Matty.

: (As Matt Remick) Yeah. Yeah. And I'm honored, obviously, to be one of the people that gets to choose, you know, which movies get made and which ones don't. That's huge. And I got into all this 'cause, you know, I love movies. But now I have this fear that my job is to ruin them.

O'HARA: (As Patty) The job is a meat grinder. It makes you stressed and panicked and miserable. One week you're looking your idol in the eye and breaking his heart, and the next week you're writing a blank check for some entitled nepo baby in a beanie. But when it all comes together and you make a good movie, it's good forever.

MOSLEY: That was Catherine O'Hara playing the role of Patty in "The Studio," and also my guest today, Seth Rogen. And that's the basis for this whole series. But, you know, I wanted to - this particular scene was really powerful because we understand, like, his motivations. And then she, as a wisdom - you know, person with wisdom, gives the larger context there.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: But it's also so beautiful.

ROGEN: Yeah (laughter).

MOSLEY: It's so interesting. Like, you guys are standing on an overlook overlooking LA. And the show and the characters' wardrobe is all very much old Hollywood. It's just interesting the juxtaposition between the visual and then the current day struggles that they're dealing with.

ROGEN: Yeah, exactly. Like, the characters, especially mine, like, longs for days of yore. And that was sort of a big part of the idea, was to, like, also anchor the show in, like, a real-feeling history for the studio and sort of, like, a real culture that the studio and, like, an identity that the studio has kind of. And so, yeah, we really used color palettes that were very '70s-inspired. And the idea was that that's sort of the culture at the studio.

And it also just subconsciously makes it - you can tell that the characters kind of long for - like, there's a nostalgia for a time that isn't there anymore. They're not trying to be on the cutting edge of things. They're actually trying to kind of go back to how things used to be, you know? And, yeah, we shot in a lot of old homes from the '50s and '60s and '70s. That house is a John Lautner house. It's a very beautiful house. And in the show, it's as though - we kind of have a storyline as though Frank Lloyd Wright designed the studio...

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ROGEN: ...That we are in, because he was in California making, you know, Mayan Revival buildings, like, at the time that these studios were made. And that, it sort of has this, like, grandeur to it, you know, and this, like, kind of thing that you're trying to live up to. And, you know, I remember - it's a name drop. I was at 30 Rock once with Lorne Michaels.

MOSLEY: (Laughter) Yeah.

ROGEN: And I was saying what an amazing building it was. And he was like, in his way, like, well, you know, when any industry is new, they build cathedrals for it. And I always remembered that. And it was so true. And, like, the studios feel that way, a lot of them. Like, they're these beautiful places, and they were built at a time when they were kind of, like, unabashedly, like, lauding and trying to, like, bolster the importance of the industry, you know? And so that, to us, was something very important.

And we got really lucky with that shot, because we shot the show where basically every scene is one take, which was very hard to do. But what it allowed us to do is, a scene like that, for example, it's all one shot. And we shot it maybe 15 times. And the first, like, 10 times, it was, like, rainy and gray and cloudy. And we kept having to go inside because it was raining on us, and it just looked miserable. But we had, like, a very specific shot we wanted to do, and so we literally just sat inside and waited for it to stop raining as the sun was going down. And then it's like this magical thing happened. We're like, right as the sun was going down, the rain stopped, and rainbows appeared.

MOSLEY: Yeah, I'm like, is that a rainbow over there? Yes.

ROGEN: And you could see the whole city. And we were just like, let's go shoot now.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ROGEN: And, like, it just all happened in one take. And that was the take we ended up using, which was great. And to me, it was like a real magical Hollywood moment kind of. Yeah.

MOSLEY: It feels like a love letter to Los Angeles...

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: ...Which feels especially, just watching it, for me, a tinge of, like, sadness a bit.

ROGEN: Yeah

MOSLEY: Just with all that has happened with the fires, you know?

ROGEN: For sure. Definitely. And I think that it always was a love letter to Los Angeles. And I think, if anything, it is - like, I love living in Los Angeles, and I've lived here for a very long time. And I love the architecture. I love the landscape. Like, I love that there's Frank Lloyd Wright buildings and John Lautner houses. And I think that's one of the things that Hollywood kind of has afforded me over the years, is just, like, access to, like, these very beautiful spaces, you know? And as we were pitching the show, that was always something that we would say in the pitch, is, like, a lot of our experience in Hollywood is, like, being in very beautiful places having very stupid arguments with one another.

MOSLEY: (Laughter) Yeah. Yeah.

ROGEN: And, like, that was something that we really - was a funny juxtaposition as well, is, like, we would be at a movie premiere at the Ace theater that was the United Artists theater that Charlie Chaplin opened in some back room that was, like, literally the dressing room that Charlie Chaplin would use before coming out of the theater, and just, like, screaming at each other over, like, the cut of the movie...

MOSLEY: Right.

ROGEN: ...And, like, the dumbest - like, a fart joke or something like that. And to us, that was always just very funny.

MOSLEY: Our guest today is Seth Rogen. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF BRYAN SHAW'S "SONG OF DREAMS")

MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley, and my guest today is Seth Rogan. He has produced, directed, written and starred in many films, including "Superbad," "Knocked Up," "This Is The End," "Sausage Party" and the series "Pam & Tommy." He founded the production company Point Grey Pictures, along with his writing and directing partner Evan Goldberg. He has a new satirical comedy series called "The Studio" on Apple TV+. Seth stars is Matt Remick, the head of the fictional Hollywood studio named Continental. Gosh, some of the scenarios in this series, like the self-importance...

: Yeah. That's real.

: ...Of...

(LAUGHTER)

: So there's this particular episode, and there's a scene in the episode where your character is dating a doctor.

: Yeah.

: And she takes him to, I think, it's, like, a cancer...

: Yeah, like, a medical...

: ...Fundraiser.

: Like a cancer gala.

: Yeah, gala. And he, while talking to fellow doctors and researchers who are, like, looking for cures for cancer and stuff, he gets into an argument, and he says to a group of them, you all - something like, you all save lives. But...

: But we make life worth living (laughter).

: You all save lives, but we make life worth living. That is, like, the most absurd...

: (Laughter).

: ...Like, nonself-aware statement ever

: (Laughter).

: But Seth, it also is kind of true.

: I mean, that episode is probably threading a needle more than any of them as far as rooting for my character or at least even understanding where my character is coming from in any way, shape or form. That to me is actually, I think - like, in many ways, I personally find it to be the funniest episode because it's sort of based on - (laughter) it's kind of based on me because - and I understand - obviously, I understand it's communique and ridiculous, but I would - I have a charity...

: Yeah.

: ...With my wife, Hilarity For Charity, and it's an Alzheimer's charity. And so we find ourselves at a lot of medical galas.

: Yes.

: And I find myself at a lot of tables with doctors who save lives. And what's funny is often they have, like, a blatant disrespect for the film industry, as - maybe as they should, but I don't think so necessarily. And they...

: So there's no difference for you.

: No, and they think it's funny.

: Yeah.

: And I think they think it's funny - I think - and they're obviously smart enough to know that I exist in a world where there is difference, and they - and they're showing no difference. And they seem to revel in being in a position where they - they're - they can, like, sort of, maybe subtly at times diminish the career of another person who clearly views what they do as important, even though maybe it isn't.

: How does that feel for you to do that?

: Well, it was - I mean, I can - I personally understand that it's not a thing I should be upset about, but I comedically understand the motive - the feeling that you wish you could fight back against that and assert that what you do is as important. And I - it's not something I would ever do in real life, but it's something that I - it's obviously an instinct I had somewhere in my brain because that's where the idea for the episode came from, you know? But I know it's ridiculous, and I know my character is wrong generally, but I think that I - the inspiration for that episode was definitely based on, like, feelings that I've had sitting at tables with doctors.

: There's also, like this storyline about being scared about whether something is racist. And that's hilarious because, like, it just goes through all these different iterations.

: Yes.

: Is that a situation that you've had to deal with in real life?

: For sure. I'd say that episode has more actual conversations that we've had to sit in rooms and watch than most of the episodes. And what's funny about it is it's like all people care about is the perception. They themselves have no ideological, like, thing that they are trying to get across, and they don't care at all. They just don't want to look bad. And that is the thing that we would notice the most when these types of things came up was that, like, oh, none of these people care. They just don't want to look bad, you know?

: Is there a story that comes to mind that happened in real life?

: It's not a thing we got made, but it was, like, we were making a comic book, and there was, like, an alien character. The alien had been, like, traditionally voiced by someone of a certain race. And so all of a sudden, like, that became a big topic of conversation. It was, like, what race is this alien? And we kept like, well, it's an alien but, like, but it didn't matter because, like, in people's heads, there was a certain, like, race ascribed to the alien due to the voice that people associated with the alien. And then we were like, well, is that racist? Like - and so that was something in the last few years where, again, I found just a lot of people having - at the end of the day, no one involved cared. No one could be like, you know what? I strongly believe that it should be this. Everyone was just like, what maybe will people yell at us for?

: Yeah, yeah.

: You know? Yeah.

: There's also the funny scene where to make sure - so in the case, like, the alien, like, in the voice, you go to, like, the one person of color in the place.

: Oh, yes.

: Is this OK?

: Yes, that happens a lot (laughter). I've been there as well. I've had people call me and ask me Jewish things before.

: Right.

: Like, it's happened to me. I've been that person. Or, like, in a writer's room. Like, I worked on the show and "Undeclared" a long time ago, and there was two female writers who were a team, Jenni Konner and Ally Rushfield, who I'm still both good friends with and are both still very successful writers. But as the only women writers, that was, like, always - and they would always hate it - would be like, don't do this. This is so annoying. They'd be like, well, as a woman, what do you think of the woman's story? And they'd be like, I don't know. Like, I'm just a writer on the show. I have to be, like, the spokesperson for all women every time there's a question about this stuff? And that idea is, for sure, something that we, like, wove into the episode as well.

: Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, I am talking with Seth Rogan about his new Apple TV+ series, "The Studio." We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF CLARK TERRY AND RED MITCHELL'S "SWINGIN' THE BLUES")

: This is FRESH AIR. And I'm talking to Seth Rogan about his new satirical comedy series "The Studio" on Apple TV+.

OK, so...

: Yes.

: ...Cameos. You've got a lot of cameos.

: Yeah.

: Zoe Kravitz, Martin Scorsese, to name a few. I've read the stories about getting them, especially Scorsese.

: Yeah.

: But was it easy to get them to say yes?

: Different people have different degrees of difficulty, I would say. Scorsese - yeah, like, insanely. Like, we sent his manager the script, and we heard this is funny - I'll send it to him. And then we heard he loves it - he'll do it. If you can shoot it this day, he'll be there. And we were like, OK. And that was it. Like, he didn't want to have a conversation about it. I didn't talk to him before he showed up on the set.

MOSLEY: Did he have things to say about it? Did he give notes?

ROGEN: No, he really seemed to like it and think it was funny. Like, he totally just did it, like, and he nailed it. Like, he's so funny in the scenes, and he instantly was able to tell exactly what it was that we were trying to do and seamlessly just, like, locked into it right away, basically, which was very impressive to watch. And he's a great actor.

MOSLEY: Impressive to watch, but it had to feel good for you, as someone who's the creative...

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: ...The person, to have him not give you notes?

ROGEN: Yeah, I think he - I don't know. I think we would've had to really be blowing it for him to step in, I guess, you know? But mostly it was just - like, it was a very validating experience he was willing to do it. And honestly, one of the reasons I think I was so nervous leading up to the show premiering and, you know, seeing how it was going to be received is that I talked all these people - people I idolize, people I'm huge fans of, people I've always wanted to work with - into doing this thing. And I don't want to let them down. I don't want them to be mad at me. I don't want them to feel like they wasted their time or I made them look stupid, or they were a part of a thing that they're not proud of, you know? And so, I mean, again, it's meta in many, many ways.

MOSLEY: (Laughter) Ways, right.

ROGEN: But that is a real thing that I relate to my character on, is that, like, I get to work with these people that I've idolized my whole life. Or people that I've recently become huge fans of, and I see are, like, the next wave of talent. And if I get the chance to work with them, I don't want them to hate me (laughter).

MOSLEY: You know, it's just so interesting, right? It's meta in that this character just walks around with so much fear

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: And, like, hope that he is liked.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: This is something that's like you, too.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: But yet, for you and for this character, like, there's something that pushes you to, like, have to face that every single day.

ROGEN: Yeah. And it's, honestly, not something I've done for a while. Like, I haven't been front and center in a thing in a while. And I still just, like - I've been in things. And just, like, as a recognizable person living their life, you fall under scrutiny. But I honestly don't think I've, like, had the stomach to put myself, like, this front and center in something in a long time because it's just scary (laughter), you know? And I know that I wear it. Like, if no one likes the things I do, then it really makes me unhappy.

And so I know I'm, like, setting myself up for, like, a real emotional crossroads, potentially, where - and I know it's not - and that's one of the things in the show is, like, I wish I wasn't so emotionally affected by it. But I think as, again, somebody who just puts a lot into their work and does enjoy making it - so, like, it's not like I regretted making something. But there are times where I made things where I'm like, oh, I really wish people like that more, you know?

MOSLEY: I want to play this clip, another clip, because this one kind of speaks to what you're saying. So your old boss, Patty, played by Catherine O'Hara - I just keep picking those clips. I like you two together.

ROGEN: She's great, yeah (laughter). How do you not go with O'Hara (laughter)?

MOSLEY: Yeah. So you guys are talking about giving notes to this ridiculously long, weird movie.

ROGEN: The Ron Howard movie.

MOSLEY: Ron Howard, who plays himself...

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: ...In this series, directed. And so in this, you guys are kind of talking about having to give him notes.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: Let's listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE STUDIO")

ROGEN: (As Matt) I just don't get it. If it's so personal to him, why did he make it so boring? It's literally insane.

O'HARA: (As Patty) He's insane. He's an artist. Matty, you know this. They put themselves into things. They project meaning onto their work even if it's imperceivable to anyone else other than them. Sly Stallone thought that "Demolition Man" was an allegory about masculinity and modernism in a battle. Was it? Oh, no. No, no. It was a 115-minute commercial for Taco Bell. But did his delusion get him up every morning and into that ridiculous futuristic cop uniform? My script is called "Checkmate." It's in your inbox.

MOSLEY: That was Catherine O'Hara and my guest today, Seth Rogen, in the new Apple TV+ series "The Studio." And, of course, this is also kind of the crux of the show, this relationship between the executive and the creative...

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: ...And the note-giving process. You talked about, like, you haven't been front and center in a really long time, to have to kind of face, like, as a creative.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: But you've dealt with that your whole life.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: And how do you deal with that when you have a career that's really based on your childhood dreams?

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: You know, just for those who don't know...

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: I just want to, like, lay this out. So you and Evan, your creative partner and business partner, you guys met when you were 13 years old in bar mitzvah classes.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: And soon after, you all began writing these screenplays together. And, like, so much of the art that we see that comes from you, like, the films and things, it comes from your childhood imagination or the imagination that you all have, like, created together over the decades.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: So it's, like, very personal.

ROGEN: Very personal, yes (laughter). Yeah.

MOSLEY: I mean, how have you dealt with that in the years?

ROGEN: What, receiving notes and stuff like that, or criticism?

MOSLEY: Yeah, notes and criticism, and then having, like, that extra something to have you to keep going.

ROGEN: I mean, I start from recognizing that I'm just very lucky. And, like, from the time I've been, like, 22 or 23, I've consistently been able to work, basically, and pretty much work on the things that I want to work on. So as much as I would like to pity myself at times and really lick my wounds, like, one of the things that is helpful is that I have just kept working. So often, like, if I've made something that is poorly received, I've already made another thing. And I'm like, well, maybe that thing will be better received, and they can't take that away. Like, it's already happened, you know?

And so I think the fact that I have kind of kept my foot on the gas this whole time, be it something I'm writing or producing or have a smaller role in, I've just always kept going. And so I view myself as very lucky, and so it's hard to, again, get too brought down by that stuff. You know, and I think part of it's based on, like, if I think it could've been better. Like, I think if I agree with the criticism, it's much more painful, and it's much harder.

And if I see that I missed something or I made some glaring mistake - you know, there's a discrepancy between what I hoped to put out there and what I did put out there. And I think that, to me, is something that I have a harder time dealing with, as opposed to I put out there exactly what I wanted to put out there and people - and just, usually, like, maybe just, like, a smaller group of people really liked it than I was hoping. But usually a small group, at least a small group of people, will like it, you know? But at times I've made things where

ROGEN: - and not a lot of things, thank God - but where I'm just like, they didn't like it, and now that I look at it, I don't know if I like it either. And I don't know if I could've pushed it harder and I could've maybe been more critical of it or worked harder to bring it to a better level, you know what I mean?

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ROGEN: Yeah.

MOSLEY: Well, because so much of your material comes from a personal place, have you ever gotten a note from an executive that felt like an insult?

ROGEN: Oh, yeah, many, many, many times (laughter). We've gotten notes that are just like, this scene isn't funny, which is insulting. You know, I think I actually understand notes about, like, likeability 'cause, like, I think that's, like, a easy note for an executive to give is, like - often they'll be a character based on me. And they'll be like, this character's not likable (laughter).

MOSLEY: Well, wasn't there that note from that executive or something about Jonah Hill's character, "Superbad?"

ROGEN: Yeah, that was a thing, yeah - that - Sony - well, it was Sony, like, corporate Sony. Sony made the movie.

MOSLEY: Yeah.

ROGEN: You know, Sony owns Columbia Pictures, and so Sony made "Superbad." And there's a scene in "Superbad" where it was supposed to be Michael Cera and Jonah's character, Seth and Evan - based on us - playing PlayStation together. And then we got a note from Sony corporate, yeah, that Jonah's character couldn't interact with a Sony product, basically.

MOSLEY: (Laughter).

ROGEN: It was even worse on "Pineapple Express," where they wouldn't even let us put a PlayStation in the movie altogether.

MOSLEY: Wow (laughter).

ROGEN: And we had a scene where Ken (ph) is playing a video game, and we had to, like, invent a console that didn't exist.

MOSLEY: Oh, my God.

ROGEN: Yeah. Like, Sony on that one was like, we don't even want to be in this movie (laughter).

MOSLEY: But the thing about the "Superbad" one, I mean, Jonah's character is based on you.

ROGEN: It is based on me.

MOSLEY: So...

ROGEN: And they were like, yes, this character is too reprehensible to be touching a PlayStation.

MOSLEY: (Laughter).

ROGEN: And I was like, that hurts (laughter).

MOSLEY: You've always been a good-looking guy to me, Seth.

ROGEN: Thank you (laughter).

MOSLEY: A few years ago, though, there was, like, this marked change. You became very, very stylish in, like, a very intentional way. And I just want to know if it's an evolution of just who you are, or was it - is there a story behind it?

ROGEN: I mean, truthfully, like, I think I just realized at one point that, like, because you're a comedian, every time you do a photoshoot, they try to make you look like a buffoon (laughter). And I feel like there was a moment where I was like, what if instead of, like, me looking sort of good but also kind of dumb, I just actually, like, put on nice clothes, and you took my picture like you do every other person who is in these magazines - you know? - and you don't try to subvert it in some way and you don't, like, try to make me look good but then also, like, throw a pie on my face or something like that.

MOSLEY: (Laughter) Right.

ROGEN: Like, what if I actually just got, like, the photoshoot treatment as you put me on the cover of your magazine? And that was really it. And I remember - it's funny 'cause afterwards, I remember another comedian coming up to me, who's very famous, and being like, what did you do? And I was like, I just told them I didn't want to look stupid. And he was like, whoa, I'm going to do that. I'm going to stop looking stupid.

MOSLEY: (Laughter).

ROGEN: And they did. And they started to look incredibly fashionable (laughter).

MOSLEY: Yes. I mean, do people treat you differently or relate to you differently?

ROGEN: Not really (laughter). I didn't get offered, like, a Louis Vuitton campaign all of a sudden or anything like that. I probably get lent nicer clothes for movie premieres and stuff like that. But not really, no. It's better than the alternative. I feel like I used to be called schlubby (ph) all the time. And now that doesn't happen as much. So it is like - I think it just is nice to feel as though I'm representing myself better. And I'm someone who in real life - my wife always talks about, like, when we first started dating, I owned, like, Diesel jeans.

Like, I'm someone who, like, in my own way, have always tried to take pride in their appearance and tried to wear things that reflect my taste, you know? I just never - I couldn't always afford to do it, so that was also something that was nice. But, no, if anything, again, I'm just happy I don't have to look stupid all the time.

MOSLEY: Seth Rogen, this has been such a pleasure, to talk with you. And thank you for "The Studio."

ROGEN: Thank you.

MOSLEY: Seth Rogen cocreated and stars in the new series "The Studio." It premieres on Apple TV+ on March 26. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF FRED KATZ'S "OLD PAINT")

TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR. The new crime series "Long Bright River" stars Amanda Seyfried as a police officer whose search for a killer plunges her back into her family's past in a troubled Philadelphia neighborhood. It's based on the best-selling novel by Liz Moore. Our critic-at-large, John Powers, says that the show is after something much more than solving a crime.

JOHN POWERS, BYLINE: Every crime story takes place somewhere, but those somewheres can be very different in kind. There are the artificial somewheres of Agatha Christie's country houses and the mean streets of noir. There are the touristic somewheres of murder mysteries that serve up Paris or Tuscany as envy-inducing backdrops. And then there are the somewheres that are so gritty and confining, they become a major character in the story - the Baltimore of "The Wire," say, or Dennis Lehane's Boston.

The new Peacock streaming series "Long Bright River" belongs to this last group. Based on the acclaimed novel by Liz Moore, who cowrote the series with Nikki Toscano, this eight-part story is set in Kensington, a struggling, opioid-ravaged, blue-collar Philadelphia neighborhood that leaves its mark on everyone who lives there.

Propelled by its heroine's search for a killer, "Long Bright River" isn't just a mystery but a heartfelt story about wounded communities, wounded families and the wounded individuals who try to make things better. Amanda Seyfried stars as Mickey Fitzpatrick, a Kensington-born cop who patrols her old hood while trying to raise her brainy 7-year-old son Thomas as a single mom. Although Mickey doesn't love her job - she once dreamed of being a classical musician - she jumps into action when somebody starts murdering young, drug-addicted women who are working the avenue, as they call it. Not only did she grow up alongside some of these sex workers, her own estranged sister Kacey, played by Ashleigh Cummings, is one of their cohort. And Mickey can't find her.

As she starts investigating the case, not always wisely, Mickey soon discovers that to get anywhere, she's going to need to face up to her past. She starts by seeking help from her former police partner, Truman - that's British actor Nicholas Pinnock - a real mensch whose friendship she has betrayed.

But that's not all. Mickey has her own dark secrets, and the quest for the magenta-haired Kacey forces her to expose them. In a series of flashbacks, we learn the painful family history that led the sisters to be raised by their grandfather, a gruff but essentially decent man, played by that great hard-ass actor John Doman, and we see what drove them apart. Here, Truman asks Mickey about Kacey's disappearance and gets a hint of potential danger.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "LONG BRIGHT RIVER")

NICHOLAS PINNOCK: (As Truman) How long she been gone this time?

AMANDA SEYFRIED: (As Mickey) Like six weeks. Feels like just yesterday she was standing in the supper line at St. Francis Inn.

PINNOCK: (As Truman) And these victims, any connection to Kacey?

SEYFRIED: (As Mickey) Other than the fact that they all worked the Avenue...

PINNOCK: (As Truman) Kacey's been missing six weeks. And most of these girls' bodies showed up days after they disappeared, right?

SEYFRIED: (As Mickey) So?

PINNOCK: (As Truman) So maybe it's unrelated. Kacey's gone missing before.

SEYFRIED: (As Mickey) I know. But in Alonzo's video, Kacey was picked up by a john in a red pickup truck. I saw a red pickup truck outside of my house, and I think I saw a red pickup truck in Kensington, too.

PINNOCK: (As Truman) You think he's been following you?

SEYFRIED: (As Mickey) I don't know. My landlord said that a guy got out of the truck, was asking about me. She tried to describe him. I have no idea who it is.

POWERS: If you watch a lot of police shows, you'll know that "Long Bright River" belongs to the operatic subgenre that includes "Mare Of Easttown" and, perhaps the mother of such shows, the British series "Happy Valley," all of which focus on women cops whose family crises are woven deeply and inextricably into the mysteries they're solving. "Reacher" they're not. If "Long Bright River" is less enjoyable than those earlier series, that's because it's less good at infusing its grown-up themes with a sense of pop melodrama. It can feel a tad depressive.

While Seyfried is an actress I've long admired, she doesn't automatically strike one as a cop. And in fact, her best scenes are the intimate ones with Kacey, Truman and her grandfather. She's great at conveying Mickey's struggle to do the right thing in a neighborhood that has learned to treat the police as an enemy that harasses them but doesn't protect them.

Painfully self-contained, she lives a life of anxious responsibility, forever trying to safeguard her sister and her son. You can understand her fears. They live in an area of Philly whose decline embodies a profound social collapse. Incomes low, jobs vanished, schools lousy, opioids replacing hope. Kensington is a place of ragtag shops, worn-out housing, terrifying street life and unhappy faces. Hopelessness passes itself from generation to generation, with some, like Kacey, being sucked into the whirlpool of addiction and despair while others, like Mickey, struggle to keep those they love from joining what a priest calls a long bright river of departed souls. Of course, "Long Bright River" is a mystery, not a sociology lesson. And I'm happy to assure you that, by the end, we discover the killer's identity and see justice done - or a certain kind of justice, anyway.

MOSLEY: John Powers reviewed the new series "Long Bright River." It's now streaming on Peacock.

Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, the promise and peril of artificial intelligence. Investigative reporter Gary Rivlin's new book tells the inside story of how AI was developed and how Big Tech firms are racing to build powerful systems with enormous potential for harm and profit. His book is "AI Valley." I hope you can join us.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

MOSLEY: To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram - @nprfreshair. FRESH AIR's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Briger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nyakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. With Terry Gross, I'm Tonya Mosley.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

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