Singer Mary Weiss, Back on the Shelves

DATE July 4, 2007 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: Singer Mary Weiss talks about her new CD called
"Dangerous Game," her first solo album since her former group
The Shangri-Las broke up in the late 1960s
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

(Soundbite of music)

Ms. MARY WEISS: When I say I'm in love, you best believe I'm in love, L-U-V.

THE SHANGRI-LAS: (Singing) Here comes my guy
Walking down the street.
Look as he walks
With a dancin' beat
Dah, dah, dah. Big wavy hair...

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: That's one of the hits that the great girl-group The Shangri-Las had
in the '60s. Some of the other hits were "Leader of the Pack," "Remember
Walking in the Sand," "Give Us Your Blessings" and "Long Live Our love." The
Shangri-Las had a tough, urban image and sang songs about teenage love that
often ended in tragedy. Some of their records were produced like mini-dramas
with dialogue and sound effects.

The group originally consisted of sisters Mary and Betty Weiss, and twin
sisters Marge and Mary Ann Ganser. The lead singer, my guest Mary Weiss, left
music after the group broke up in the late '60s, but in March, she returned
with her first solo album called "Dangerous Game." Weiss' new CD was described
in The New Yorker as a remarkable solo debut, quote, "Weiss is in fine voice,
and the songs combine the dark innocence of girl-group records with a mature
sense of regret." Unquote.

I spoke with Mary Weiss when "Dangerous Game" was released. We began with the
opening track from the CD. This song is called "My Heart Is Beating."

(Soundbite of "My Heart Is Beating")

Ms. WEISS: (Singing) When you held me close
That's when I knew
It shook me through and through
I couldn't let you go
I couldn't let it show.

In this whole world unfair
I know it's true
What can I do?
One day you'll be free
You'll come running to me
Till then
My heart is beating, beating, baby
I know you've been cheating,
But if I take you back
You better walk the straight and narrow track
I said, if I take you back
Iwant to know if you'll be good to me.

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: That's Mary Weiss from her new CD "Dangerous Game."

Mary Weiss, welcome to FRESH AIR. It's so great to have you recording again.

Ms. WEISS: Thank you.

GROSS: Yeah, you really sound great on the new record, but you haven't
recorded, and you haven't even performed much since The Shangri-Las broke up
in the late '60s. Why have you stayed away from music for so many years?

Ms. WEISS: Basically, when we first started, it was all about music, and by
the time we finished, it was all about litigation, and it just became thicker
than the music.

GROSS: So what change and did somebody convince you to come back now?

Ms. WEISS: Interestingly enough, I was listening to an interview you did
with Iggy Pop.

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Ms. WEISS: And he mentioned life being in seven-year cycles, and I was just
floored because I've always viewed life that way, and I've had a lot of things
happen to me in recent years. I lost my mom, I lost my brother, and I've been
re-evaluating what it is I want to do with the last sector of my work life.

GROSS: And why did you think you wanted to go back to music?

Ms. WEISS: Because music is home to me, it always was. Music was my life as
a child growing up, and it got me through most of the things in my life, and
it's, it feel like, where I belong. So.

GROSS: So it must have been horrible to not be able to perform for all those
years.

Ms. WEISS: I've never been real fond of performing live. I'm a very private
person. But I love the studio. That's my home.

GROSS: So that must have been frustrating, not being able to record.

Ms. WEISS: Yes and no. When I put something down, I really put it down.
And I packed my bags and I went on my way. I developed a new career.

GROSS: What was it?

Ms. WEISS: I was working for an architectural firm, and I had started in
their accounting department. By the time I left, I was their chief purchasing
agent, and I worked at commercial furniture dealerships, and I installed
multimillion-dollar installations.

GROSS: Did they know who you were?

Ms. WEISS: Yeah, unfortunately. Sometimes people would show up at my place
of employment with an album in hand.

GROSS: Let's talk a little bit about The Shangri-Las. Now, you started out
in high school performing at local bars with The Shangri-Las before you
started recording, and the band was initially made up of you, your sister
Betty, and two twins who were your friends.

Ms. WEISS: Right.

GROSS: What was the band like before you started recording?

Ms. WEISS: Well, actually, we met in grammar school. And we used to sing on
the street corner, all of us, so that's how we really started. And not bars.
I was too young to be in a bar, actually.

GROSS: Right.

Ms. WEISS: Little hops and dances and things like that, we did initially.
Until we went up to Bob Lewis' apartment and met Shadow Morton.

GROSS: And the story of how you met George "Shadow" Morton, who became one of
your producers and one of your chief songwriters, is a story that's kind of
entered rock 'n' roll lore, but I want you to tell it.

Ms. WEISS: We had an original manager, I believe his name was Tony Michaels,
and he wanted Bob Lewis to hear us singing, so he had made an appointment with
him, and we went up to his apartment just to hear us, and we got up and sang
for him a cappella, and George was there, Shadow...

GROSS: Shadow.

Ms. WEISS: ...sitting there, and that's when I met him.

GROSS: And he, I think, wrote this on a dare. He was trying to convince the
songwriter Jeff Berry that he was really a songwriter and he could write, you
know, a ballad or, you know, an uptempo tune, and the song was "Remember
Walking in the Sand," which is one of those like great, like drama songs
that...

Ms. WEISS: I really liked that record.

GROSS: Oh, I love the record. I mean, who doesn't?

Ms. WEISS: I'm doing that onstage.

GROSS: Are you?

Ms. WEISS: Yes, I am.

GROSS: So let's hear, "Remember," which was The Shangri-Las' first hit, and
you were what, 15 when this was recorded?

Ms. WEISS: I believe so.

GROSS: OK, here we go.

(Soundbite from "Remember Walking in the Sand")

THE SHANGRI-LAS: (Singing) "Seems like the other day
My baby went away
He went away across the sea

It's been two years ago
Since I saw my baby go
And then this letter came for me
It said that we were through.
He found somebody new.

Oh, let me think, let me think--what can I do?
Oh, no! Oh, no!
Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
Remember, walking in the sand
Remember, walking hand in hand
Remember, the night was so exciting
Remember, his smile was so inviting
Remember! Then he touched my cheek.
Remember! With his fingertips
Remember! Softly, softly, we'd meet with our lips

Whatever happened to
The boy that I once knew...

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: That's The Shangri-Las on their first hit. My guest Mary Weiss was
the lead singer of The Shangri-Las and now she has a new solo CD, which is
called "Dangerous Game."

Now this song has such drama to it, you know, like when you're saying, "Let me
think, let me think, what can I do?" Were you used to that kind of drama in
your performances?

Ms. WEISS: I was used to that kind of drama in my life, so I think it would
come out in my performances.

GROSS: What kind of drama in your life?

Ms. WEISS: Well, I think teenagers, for the most part--I can only speak for
myself--but teenagers have an intensity that we seem to--I don't think we grow
out of, but there's variable shades of gray added where, when you're a teen, a
lot of things were--for me, anyway--everything was black and white. I don't
know if I'm expressing myself correctly.

GROSS: Mm-hmm. Can you give us like an example of a dramatic incident that
had already happened to you when you were 15 and recorded this?

Ms. WEISS: Not specifically. It's just the way--I grew up with a difficult
childhood.

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Ms. WEISS: We grew up pretty poor, and I--I mean I've been supporting myself
since I'm 14, so I don't know, there was a lot of pain in me.

GROSS: My guest is Mary Weiss. In the '60s, she was the lead singer of The
Shangri-Las. In March she came out with a solo album called "Dangerous Game."

We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Announcements)

GROSS: My guest is Mary Weiss. In the '60s, she was the lead singer of The
Shangri-Las. In the spring she returned to music with her first solo CD
called "Dangerous Game." Weiss was only 15 when The Shangri-Las had their
first hit, "Remember Walking in the Sand."

Some people lose their bearings when they have that kind of sudden success at
a young age. Did you?

Ms. WEISS: Definitely. I think most--it's hard enough for an adult to deal
with that type of situation, much less a child. Sure, I had a lot of problems
with that.

GROSS: In what ways do you feel like you were knocked off balance?

Ms. WEISS: Well, I think most kids have a structured home, a more structured
home than I did...

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Ms. WEISS: ...and, well, in today's world, maybe not, but years ago I
remember people having like two parents and finishing school and, you know,
more structure than I did. I grew up on the road. I had a road manager who
was barely a couple of years older than me. So I mean, kids were going to
proms, and I was giving press conferences in London. It's quite a weird way
to grow up.

GROSS: If you don't mind my asking, did guys and bands try to hit on you on
the road when you were traveling in rock 'n' roll shows and sharing a bill?

Ms. WEISS: Other bands?

GROSS: Yeah.

Ms. WEISS: Sometimes. Of course. We have such a tough image, supposedly,
but...

GROSS: The Shangri-Las, absolutely, yeah.

Ms. WEISS: Yeah. I think a lot of that comes from surviving, from making
people back down.

GROSS: So you didn't have a tough image before your success?

Ms. WEISS: I never thought much about image. I just didn't like chiffon
dresses and high heels. You know, that's as honest as I can be, and I never
liked women's slacks back then. You know, they didn't have low-rise pants...

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Ms. WEISS: ...in 1964. They just didn't make them, so I used to go to a
place on Eighth Street and have men's clothes tailored for me.

GROSS: Did anyone ever try--anyone like from a record company--ever try to
make The Shangri-Las more girlish and glamorous and less kind of tough-looking
in, you know, your boots and pants?

Ms. WEISS: No, actually not. What we wore onstage after we started making
money--I mean, you can see the difference from early on. We didn't have any
clothes. Where you saw other groups, where they had money and support behind
them, were extremely well-dressed from the beginning...

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Ms. WEISS: ...we were out there pretty much in our street clothes. But then
when we started making money, we designed our own clothes and had them made in
the Village.

GROSS: Let's hear, but talk about first, another really famous Shangri-Las
recording, and I'm thinking of "Leader of the Pack."

Ms. WEISS: OK.

GROSS: Your first impression of the song when it was presented to you?

Ms. WEISS: I really had to sit down with this one. I took it home and
listened to it for a very long time before I agreed to do it.

GROSS: Why were you so reluctant?

Ms. WEISS: Even at the time it was pretty much out there. I mean, in
England, there was a very rigid environment, even globally--I mean, the record
was banned in England the first time it came out.

GROSS: Did you rehearse the song differently than you usually rehearsed songs
because of the spoken parts in it and the drama?

Ms. WEISS: Well, usually, I'd rehearse those home initially, and I remember
having hard times with certain songs where we'd actually dim lights in the
studio so I could feel like alone in order to be able to deliver it properly.
The "Look out!" took a little bit because it's kind of metered, and it had to
be right on the money to do, so I would just sit at home and yell, "Look out!"
I'm sure my neighbors loved that.

GROSS: Well, why don't we hear the song?

Ms. WEISS: OK.

GROSS: And this is The Shangri-Las' "Leader of the Pack."

(Soundbite from "Leader of the Pack")

Unidentified Girl #1: Is she really going out with him?

Unidentified Girl #2: Well, there she is. Let's ask her.

Girl #1: Betty, is that Jimmy's ring you're wearing?

Unidentified Girl #3: Mm-hmm.

Girl #2: Gee, it must be great riding with him.

Girl #1: Is he picking you up after school today?

Girl #3: Unh-unh.

Girl #1 and Girl #2: (In unison) By the way, where'd you meet him?

Girl #3: (Singing) I met him at the candy store
He turned around and smiled at me

You get the picture?

Girl #1 and Girl #2: Yes, we see.

Girl #3: (Singing) That's when I fell for...

THE SHANGRI-LAS: (Singing) "The leader of the pack."

(Soundbite of motorcycle engine revving)

Girl #3: (Singing) My folks were always putting him down.

THE SHANGRI-LAS: (Singing) Down, down

Girl #3: (Singing) They said he came from the wrong side of town

THE SHANGRI-LAS: (Singing) What do you mean when you say that he came from
the wrong side of town?

Girl #3: (Singing) They told me he was bad
But I knew he was sad
That's why I fell for...

THE SHANGRI-LAS: (Singing) The leader of the pack.

(Soundbite of motorcycle engine revving)

Girl #3: (Singing) One day my dad said, `Find someone new'
I had to tell my Jimmy we're through

THE SHANGRI-LAS: (Singing) What do you mean when you say that you'd better
go find somebody new?

Girl #3: (Singing) He stood there and asked me why.
But all I could do was cry
I'm sorry I hurt you

THE SHANGRI-LAS: (Singing) The leader of the pack

(Soundbite of motorcycle engine revving)

THE SHANGRI-LAS: (Singing) Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da

Girl #3: He sort of smiled and kissed me goodbye. The tears were beginning
to show. As he drove away on that rainy night, I begged him to go slow.
Whether he heard, I'll never know.

(Soundbite of motorcycle squealing, crashing)

THE SHANGRI-LAS: (Singing) No, no, no, no, no, no, no

Girl #3: Look out, look out, look out, look out!

(Singing) I felt so helpless,
What could I do?
Remembering all the things we'd been through
In school, they all stop and stare
I can't hide the tears, but I don't care
I'll never forget him...

THE SHANGRI-LAS: (Singing) The leader of the pack

(Soundbite of motorcycle engine revving)

THE SHANGRI-LAS: (Singing) Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Gone
Leader of the pack, now he's gone
Gone, gone, gone
Leader of the pack. Now he's gone, gone, gone, gone

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: That's The Shangri-Las. My guest, Mary Weiss, was the lead singer of
the group. She has a new solo CD, her first solo CD, called "Dangerous Game."

You know, as we were saying, The Shangri-Las had the image of being very
tough. What was your neighborhood like in Queens when you were growing up?

Ms. WEISS: I probably would consider it middle to low-middle class.

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Ms. WEISS: There were a lot of kids in the neighborhood, an average
neighborhood, pretty much.

GROSS: What did your mother do to support you?

Ms. WEISS: She had periodic jobs on occasion, but nothing really substantial.

GROSS: Mm-hmm. So you were pretty much scraping by?

Ms. WEISS: Yeah, absolutely.

GROSS: So it must have been really welcomed when you started making a lot of
money.

Ms. WEISS: There you go.

GROSS: And did you send a lot back to your mother?

Ms. WEISS: Always.

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Ms. WEISS: We kind of raised her, as much as we could.

GROSS: What are you hoping for, musically and professionally this time
around? You've stayed away from the music business since the late '60s.
There was so much litigation, you were so kind of disillusioned with the
business at that point, you stayed away for decades. What do you want this
time around?

Ms. WEISS: Actually, I want music. The funny thing about it now is I'm not
a kid. There is no ladder I'm trying to climb. I have nothing to prove. No
one can remove what I've done from my past. It is what it is. And now it's
time to just have some music in my life and have some fun. I don't know. The
whole thing has been fabulous, and the response is absolutely overwhelming,
but I'm not looking for anything specific. I just want to rock 'n' roll.

GROSS: Since...

Ms. WEISS: That's how I want to spend my last days before I retire.

GROSS: I'd like to close with another track from your new CD and since I've
been making all the choices, I'm going to ask you to choose one of your
favorites.

Ms. WEISS: "Break It One More Time." "Break It for Me One More Time."

GROSS: Tell me why you're choosing it.

Ms. WEISS: I just really like the song. I loved doing it, and I just really
feel that number.

GROSS: OK. Mary Weiss, a real pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much.
And congratulations on...

Ms. WEISS: Thank you.

GROSS: ...the new CD.

Ms. WEISS: Thanks so much.

GROSS: Mary Weiss was the lead singer of The Shangri-Las. Her new solo CD is
called "Dangerous Game."

Here's the track she just mentioned, "Break It One More Time." I'm Terry
Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of "Break It One More Time")

Ms. WEISS: (Singing) My heart won't let you go
Even though I often tell it so
There are some things it just won't do
No matter how many times I tell it to

It still thinks you are mine
It still seems to think you are so kind
So do me a favor
Help me to remind
And break it for me one more time
One more time

Since you're gone, there's no one else
When it comes to you...

(End of soundbite)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Interview: Songwriter/singer Neil Sedaka talks about his new CD
called "Neil Sedaka: The Definitive Collection," featuring his
original recordings in the late '50s and early '60s
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

In the late 1950s, my guest was one of the songwriters churning out hits in a
Manhattan office building that became known as pop's new Tin Pan Alley. Neil
Sedaka started out in the music industry 50 years ago. To celebrate the
anniversary, he came out with a new CD in April called "The Definitive
Collection," featuring the original recordings of hits he wrote and sang in
the late '50s and early '60s, including "Oh, Carol," "Stairway to Heaven,"
"Calendar Girl," "Happy Birthday, Sweet Sixteen," "Breaking Up Is Hard to Do"
and "Next Door to an Angel." It also includes recordings he made in the '70s,
like "Laughter in the Rain," after Elton John signed Sedaka to John's own
label, Rocket Records.

Sedaka's music was back on the charts three years ago, after he was a judge on
"American Idol" and Clay Aiken recorded "Solitaire." When I spoke with Sedaka
in April, we started with this 1961 hit.

(Soundbite from "Happy Birthday, Sweet Sixteen")

Mr. NEIL SEDAKA: (Singing) Sha-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la
Happy birthday, sweet sixteen
Sha-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la
Happy birthday, sweet sixteen
Tonight's the night I've waited for
Because you're not a baby anymore
You've turned into the prettiest girl I've ever seen
Happy birthday, sweet sixteen
What happened to...

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: Now, when you were in your teens, or just out of them, you had a knack
for writing songs that would appeal to teenagers, maybe particularly to
teenage girls, because the songs often had the message they wanted to hear,
like they're growing up and becoming very desirable. Did you think about that
consciously? Did you think of yourself as writing songs for teens?

Mr. SEDAKA: Mm. Well, we were the teenagers of New York coming from the
Brill Building School of Songwriting, and, yes, we were writing for the
teenage market. The early lyrics are collaboration with Howard Greenfield,
who was a marvelous lyricist and who could concise--it was almost the art of
writing a three-minute song, and we could tell a whole story in three minutes.
"Happy Birthday, Sweet Sixteen," from the beginning to the end is a little
novelette.

GROSS: Did you always start with a lyrical hook, as well as a musical one?

Mr. SEDAKA: I always wrote the melody first. And I would prepare two or
three melodies for Howie and play them that day and whatever mood he might be
in, he would choose one of those, and then it was a give and take. If the
lyrics didn't fit, I would change a melody or a motif, and then he might
change some things to accommodate me. It was a very close collaboration.

GROSS: Most of the songwriters there were writing for other singers, and you
wrote songs that other singers recorded, but you wrote a lot of songs that you
recorded yourself. Were you originally hired to write for other people?

Mr. SEDAKA: I came in as a writer, the first six months, and two of my songs
were recorded. Connie Francis did "Stupid Cupid," and before that, Atlantic
Records. Ahmet Ertegun and Jerry Wexler took my songs and recorded them with
Clyde McPhatter and LaVern Baker. But about six months to a year into the
contract, I was 19 and I had a great desire to record my own songs, and I was
brought into RCA Victor. Steve Schultz, who was the top A&R man, he had just
brought Elvis Presley from Sun Records to RCA, and I auditioned for him with a
song called "The Diary," and he signed me to a five-year contract. And,
Terry, I was very fortunate between 1958 and 1963, to the shock of my family,
after studying at the Juilliard, I sold 40 million records in the five years.

GROSS: Yeah.

Mr. SEDAKA: So I did--I was...

GROSS: I'm sure your parents were happy about that in spite of their
classical aspirations for you.

Mr. SEDAKA: My mother, in fact, was not happy at the beginning, but you
know, I bought her her mink stole, so she was very, very happy after that.

Now, I want to play another song that's included on your new collection, and
this is "Stairway to Heaven." And this is an example of like, you know, an
early rock 'n' roll pop hit that had a pretty elaborate orchestration. I
mean, am I hearing a bass saxophone on here?

Mr. SEDAKA: No...

GROSS: No.

Mr. SEDAKA: It was a baritone sax.

GROSS: OK. OK.

Mr. SEDAKA: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: And...

Mr. SEDAKA: And it became a trademark. I called it "the sandwich song,"
because it started with a piece of bread, (singing) "Climb up, way up high."
And then the meat of the song was the actual lyric, (singing) "Well-a, well-a,
well-a, heavenly angel." And it ended again with a piece of bread, (singing)
"Climb up, way up high." And it became a Neil Sedaka trademark, the sandwich
song I call it.

GROSS: Well, another Neil Sedaka trademark is the "Well-a, well-as" or the
"Come, doobie-doobies."

Mr. SEDAKA: Oh, yes, the onomatopoeia. I was fascinated with the syllables
sung to music, and that became sort of a trademark.

GROSS: How did it become a trademark, and how did you figure out what
syllables to use, whether it should be well-a, well-a or doobie-doobie?

Mr. SEDAKA: Well, it started early in the career, and it was kind of someone
singing along. Perhaps they were just getting into the song and they didn't
get into the lyric yet, so they were going, (singing) "Down doobie doo, down
down," before they began the actual song, and it was--how did I choose the
syllables? The most important thing in songwriting was the marriage of words
and music, and the syllables had to fit the particular melody, and I was very
keen on that marriage of lyrics or syllables set to music.

GROSS: OK, so here's Neil Sedaka singing his song, "Stairway to Heaven," and
this is one of the songs included on his new collection, "The Definitive
Collection of Neil Sedaka."

(Soundbite of "Stairway to Heaven")

Mr. SEDAKA: (Singing) Climb up, way up high
climb up, way up high
Climb up, way up high
Well-a, well-a, well-a, heavenly angel
I want you for my girl
When I kissed your sweet, sweet lips
I knew that you were out of this world

I'll build a stairway to heaven
I'll climb to the highest star
I'll build a stairway to heaven
'Cause heaven is where you are.

Well-a, well-a, well-a, over the rainbow
That's where I'm going to climb.
Way up high where the bluebirds fly
I'm going to love you all of the time

I'll build a stairway to heaven
I'll climb to the highest star.
I'll build a stairway to heaven
'Cause heaven is where you are...

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: That's Neil Sedaka from his new CD, "The Definitive Collection of Neil
Sedaka."

Now, you know, we were talking before we heard that about how one of your
trademarks is the, you know, the scat-like syllable things, "well-a,
well-a"...

Mr. SEDAKA: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: ...or in the case of the next song we're going to hear "Dom doobie
doobie" in "Breaking Up Is Hard to Do."

Mr. SEDAKA: Yeah.

GROSS: What was the first song you did that on?

Mr. SEDAKA: Oh, I think it was "Oh, Carol," I did double voice. But
"Breaking Up" is an interesting song because I think I'm the only artist who
has recorded his song twice. I did it first as a rock 'n' roll song in 1962,
and then I rerecorded "Breaking Up Is Hard to Do" 15 years later as a slow,
gin mill song, and I don't think anybody else has done the same song in two
different tempos, and by the way, both of them were huge successes.

GROSS: Yeah. We're going to hear them back to back but, before we do, what
made you decide to do a slower and more adult version of the song in 1975?

Mr. SEDAKA: Good question. Lenny Welch, a great singer who had a hit called
"Since I Fell for You"...

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. SEDAKA: ...was a friend and asked if I had any follow-up to "Since I
Fell for You," and I was fooling around at the piano one day and discovered
that "Breaking Up Is Hard to Do" worked as a slow song, and I presented it to
him. He loved it and recorded it as a ballad, and it was an R&B hit, and then
I would do it as an encore in my concerts. And the audience reaction was so
good that I decided to re-record it as a ballad.

GROSS: And you made some changes on it. It's not just that the tempo's
slower. The chords are really different.

Mr. SEDAKA: Well, of course. It's a more sophisticated--and when you have a
ballad hit, it's a career move. It's a much better career vehicle, and when
you're doing it as a jazz piece, you automatically change some of the chords
to make them sound like a standard, like you're listening to a Dinah
Washington record.

GROSS: OK, so let's hear Neil Sedaka's two versions of his song "Breaking Up
Is Hard to Do." The first from 1962; the second from 1975. Both versions are
featured on his new CD, "The Definitive Collection of Neil Sedaka."

(Soundbite of "Breaking Up Is Hard to Do," 1962 version)

Mr. SEDAKA: (Singing) Doo-doo-doo-down-doobie-doo-down-down,
Comma, comma, down-doobie-doo-down-down,
Comma, comma, down-doobie-doo-down-down.
Breaking up is hard to do

Don't take your love away from me

Don't you leave my heart in misery
If you go, then I'll be blue
'Cause breaking up is hard to do
Remember....

(End of soundbite)

(Soundbite of "Breaking Up Is Hard to Do," 1975 version)

Mr. SEDAKA: (Singing) Remember when you held me tight
And you kissed me all through the night
Think of all that we've been through,
And breaking up is hard to do.

They say that...

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: Now, of course, you know, on "American Idol," a few years ago, Ruben
did a slow version of "Breaking Up Is Hard to Do"...

Mr. SEDAKA: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: And Clay, of course, recorded "Solitaire," and you were a judge, a
guest judge.

Mr. SEDAKA: Mm.

GROSS: What kind of advice did they ask you--did they give you before being
a--did they tell you to be nice or to take the gloves off and be tough?

Mr. SEDAKA: Well, you know, I wanted to be tough, but my son said, `Dad, you
know, there are 30 million people watching. Be careful of what you say.' And
you know, I think that it's a very difficult--these kids are on in front of
millions and millions of people. It's a very difficult thing.

But I must tell you how I got on. Everyone was saying, `Oh, Neil, you must be
a celebrity judge.' I said, `Oh, there are so many people trying to get on,'
and my publicist called and said, `Perhaps if you called personally to the
show, you'd have a better chance,' and I picked up the telephone, spoke to a
Susan Slamer on the staff. I said, `Hi, this is Neil Sedaka. I watch the
show. I'd love to be on as a celebrity judge,' and she said, `Are you
kidding? Who is this?' I said, `No, it's Neil Sedaka.' She said, `Sit there.
We're having a meeting.' She called me back in an hour and said, `You'll be on
in two weeks, and the five finalists will be singing all Neil Sedaka songs.' I
was over the moon.

GROSS: What impact did it have on your career?

Mr. SEDAKA: The catalogue went through the roof. All of the old records
started to sell. Amazon.com was ringing off the walls, and "Solitaire" by
Clay was one of the biggest--I think the second biggest seller of that year.

GROSS: My guest is Neil Sedaka. His CD "The Definitive Collection" was
released this spring. We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Announcements)

GROSS: My guest is songwriter and singer Neil Sedaka. His latest CD is a
career retrospective of hit songs that he wrote.

We were talking about how you grew up playing classical music and how your
mother early on would have preferred that you play classical music. In those
early days, were you torn in two directions, pop vs. classical?

Mr. SEDAKA: No, I was a very serious piano student. I started playing at
age eight. At nine I entered the prep school of the Juilliard, when it was on
125th Street and Claremont Avenue. I studied with the great Edgar Roberts and
when I was 13, I discovered that I could write songs. I wasn't very popular
in school. I wasn't a jock and I wasn't one of the popular kids playing
Chopin and Bach, so I was fascinated by the reaction I got. I was invited to
all of the teenage parties, and that was a very big deal in those days if you
could play your own songs or hits of the day.

So it was actually a twofold study of songwriting and going to Juilliard every
Saturday, and then I went to the college, Juilliard College, studied with
Adele Marcus, and when I was 19, I had to make a decision which direction to
go, and, you know, the money is--being from a very poor family--my father was
a taxi driver in Brooklyn for 30 years and worked very hard--and I think every
teenager wanted to be a rock 'n' roll star. You know, that would be very
exciting to any kid of that age. So I did pursue it, but I never dropped the
classical music because I still basically love it, and those are my roots.

GROSS: In an autobiogrpahy that you wrote a few years ago, you write about a
song, "Mr. Moon," that you wrote when you were in high school and that you
performed in high school, but the principal didn't like the song. You
describe it as having been a little risque for school. I was dying to hear
how it went.

Mr. SEDAKA: Well, I was a freshman at Lincoln High School, and, as I said,
not one of the popular kids, and I'd started writing rock 'n' roll. It was
the beginning of rock 'n' roll, and I wrote a song called "Mr. Moon," and
sang it at one of the Ballyhoo shows in the auditorium, and there was to be
two performances. The first performance, the kids started to jump and dance
and bump and grind, and it was a sensation, except when Abraham Lass, the
principal, called me into his office and said, `You know, Neil, we can't have
that kind of behavior. We'd like you to do something else, another kind of
song for the second performance. And there was a petition signed by the
students that they wanted Neil to do "Mr. Moon" again, and we won, and I did
it again. It was not a dirty song in any way, but it was kind of a bump and
grind "chik chik chik chik chik chik," you know, that old rock 'n' roll tempo
which was very new at the time.

GROSS: Could you do a few bars of it?

Mr. SEDAKA: Oh, my goodness. I was 16. (Singing) "Mr. Moon, guide your
love back to me, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha." Sounds very fragile now. Very
timid.

GROSS: So, what was it like for you, having been an unpopular kid, to then
have a song that the kids really responded to? Did it change your standing in
the school?

Mr. SEDAKA: Oh, I was able to go into the sweet shop across the street from
Lincoln High School. The sweet shop was divided into two parts. The first
part were the kids that wore the button-down shirts, and the second half of
the sweet shop had the black leather kids with the DA haircuts, and I was
allowed to go into the backroom with the jukebox and the leathers and the DA
haircuts. They said, `Oh, let Mr. Moon go in.' So you can imagine.

GROSS: Are these kids who had beated you up in earlier times?

Mr. SEDAKA: They weren't too kind to me at the beginning.

GROSS: You know, you write in that memoir, you write, "By first grade, I was
known as the school sissy. I practiced walking and gesturing in a masculine
fashion in front of the mirror." So it made me think you were probably picked
on a lot.

Mr. SEDAKA: Yes. That was one of the reasons that I wanted to be
recognized. I wanted to please people. I think in many instances, artists
who begin as--you know, are neglected and are made fun of, I think that they
pursue these careers to be noticed, to be accepted and to be revered. So I
showed those football players.

GROSS: Yeah. Well, did it make you self-conscious when you started
performing about whether you should look more macho as a performer?

Mr. SEDAKA: I studied in front of a mirror. I had a sister, Ronnie, who I
adored and she was my hero. She was 18 months older, beautiful, popular and,
you know, I had to stand in front of a mirror--I'll be totally honest with
you--and learn how to move in a more macho way, how to carry my books, how
to--it was a metamorphosis.

GROSS: You know, I think in that era, every teenager was standing in front of
a mirror, and some people were learning to dance in front of a mirror. Some
people were pretending they were singing into a microphone in front of a
mirror, and other people were just trying to figure out how to fix their hair
or look better, but don't you think like every boy and girl was standing in
front of a mirror then?

Mr. SEDAKA: Yes, but I must correct you. I didn't use the word "sissy." I
used the word "effeminine" because I was raised by six women. We were,
believe it or not, 11 people in a two-bedroom apartment...

GROSS: Mm!

Mr. SEDAKA: ...in Brighton Beach. My mother, my sister, my five aunts and
my grandmother. So these are the people who I emulated, so--it was a
marvelous upbringing because I was spoiled by all these women.

GROSS: My guest is Neil Sedaka. His CD, "The Definitive Collection," was
released this spring. We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Announcements)

GROSS: My guest is songwriter and singer Neil Sedaka. His latest CD is a
career retrospective of hit songs that he wrote.

Now, earlier we heard two different versions of your song "Breaking Up Is Hard
to Do," one from the early '60s, one from the mid-'70s. When did your string
of hits in the '60s end? People always say that for the American pop
songwriters and singers, their careers were really interrupted or ended by the
British invasion. Is that too simplistic, or do you think that's an accurate
description?

Mr. SEDAKA: That's an accurate description, Terry. There was also a natural
progression of five years of hits. The Everly Brothers, Connie Francis, Fats
Domino, Brenda Lee--we all didn't have more than five years but, as you said,
the British invasion, the great Beatles and Rolling Stones came. I wanted to
write that style, and I did write that style, but my public wouldn't accept
it, and the record company wouldn't accept it. So for 11 years, I took a
backseat, took stock of myself, raised a family, had my two children and wrote
for a publishing firm and had some great artists record my songs--Andy
Williams, Johnny Mathis, Peggy Lee, Shirley Bassey.

But, you know, once you get a taste of being in front of the public, you never
get over that, and it was 11 years later, around 1974, '75 actually, that I
lived in England. I moved my wife and children to England because in England
they respected the original rock 'n' rollers in America, and it was there that
I met Elton John, who was starting a record company, Rocket Records, in
America, and he was a big fan of my early records, and he knew that I was
recording with a group called The 10CCs in Stockport, England. Marvelous
group at the time. And I made two albums with them, and both of them were
successes in the UK, and Elton said, `You know, I think I could launch you
again in America,' and I said, `Well, that would be remarkable.'

Elton had me record an album called "Sedaka's Back," which was a remarkable
comeback for me and I always thank Elton for that.

GROSS: Was "Laughter in the Rain" on that?

Mr. SEDAKA: Yes. It was interesting...

GROSS: Yeah, that was a really big hit for you.

Mr. SEDAKA: Well, after 11 years, to have a number one record was a
remarkable comeback, and "Love Will Keep Us Together" was on, and "The
Immigrant" and "That's When the Music Takes Me." I was very proud of the
collection.

GROSS: So how much are you still writing songs now?

Mr. SEDAKA: I write once or twice a year. I wrote some new songs that I'm
working on for a children's album. I actually rewrote--since I have three new
grandchildren, my son and his wife got after me and said, `You know, you're
Papa Neil now. You have to write some children's songs.' So I came up with
the idea of changing the lyrics to some of my original hits, so I did "Waking
Up Is Hard to Do." I did "Where the Toys Are." "Don't Trip Over Your Toys, Put
Them Away Neatly." And so perhaps I'll be Papa Neil on television. Who knows?

GROSS: I'm trying to think of a really torchy version of "Where the Toys
Are." Well, it's really been a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much.

Mr. SEDAKA: Same here, Terry, and it's a wonderful program.
Congratulations. Continued success.

GROSS: Neil Sedaka recorded in April, after the release of his CD "Neil
Sedaka: The Definitive Collection."

(Credits)

GROSS: I'm Terry Gross.
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