Sharon Jones Is 'Nobody's Baby'

DATE November 28, 2007 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: Sharon Jones and Gabriel Roth talk about new CD
"100 Days, 100 Nights," about the band the Dap-Kings and their
careers and influences in music
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

Some people have called Sharon Jones the female James Brown. She grew up in
his home town Augusta, Georgia, and imitated him as a child. Now she fronts
the band the Dap-Kings. Jones was described as a timeless soul singer in The
New York Times. The Dap-Kings were described as obsessive and skillful soul
revivalists. You can also hear the band's retro soul sound on several tracks
of Amy Winehouse's hit album "Back to Black," including "Rehab" and "You Know
I'm No Good." The Dap-Kings backed her on her first US tour.

My guests are Sharon Jones and the founder of the Dap-Kings, Gabriel Roth, aka
"Bosco Mann." They met when he co-owned the now defunct label Desco Records
and asked her to record for it. Roth and Neal Sugarman subsequently
co-founded Daptone Records which recently released the third album by Sharon
Jones and the Dap-Kings. Roth plays bass, produced the album and wrote many
of the songs on it, including the title track "100 Days, 100 Nights."

(Soundbite of "100 Days, 100 Nights")

Ms. SHARON JONES (Singing)
100 days, 100 nights to know a man's heart
100 days, 100 nights to know a man's heart
And a little more before he knows it...(unintelligible)

You know a man can play the part of the gent for so long
Before the day come when his true, his true self unfolds
Yes, it does
He may be mellow, he may be kind, treat you good all the time
But then something just beyond what he's...(unintelligible)
Yeah, yeah
100 days, 100 nights...

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: That's Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings from the new album, it's the
title track of "100 Days, 100 Nights." My guests are lead singer Sharon Jones
and the bass player and band leader Gabriel Roth, aka Bosco Mann, and he wrote
the song that we just heard.

Welcome to both of you.

How would you describe the sound you're going after?

Ms. JONES: More of a soul, Stax '68-'69 sound. Gabe?

Mr. GABRIEL ROTH: Yeah, I mean, for me I've always just tried to make
records that sound like, you know, sound like the records I like. I never had
to much of a very specific agenda that we were going to try to, you know, try
to ape something or try to pass something off. We just wanted to make records
that felt good to us and sounded good to us.

GROSS: Gabe, would you describe the instrumentation of the band and what you
patterned it on?

Mr. ROTH: The instrumentation of the band is drums, bass, two guitar
players, baritone and tenor saxophones, trumpet, percussion and Sharon
singing. And then on the record there's, you know, some extra gravy. We have
the Bushwick Philharmonic string section. We have, you know, pianos and
organs and vibes and background singers and things like that. But as far as
the touring act, it's the two guitars and the horns and drums and the bass.

GROSS: Is it hard to find good baritone players who aren't full-time jazz
musicians now?

Mr. ROTH: Well, I'll tell you the thing about this band is that it's
actually--it really is a band, and I think it's rare for a band to be this big
and actually be a band. It's a bunch of guys that are really a part of it.
We're not using side men. We're not changing people out every gig. You know,
I mean, once in a while people have to sub out for something. But as far as
baritone players, man, we have Ian Hendrickson Smith who is actually a very
talented and accomplished jazz musician in his own right, both on tenor and
alto and baritone. And he's put out a lot of records in his own name. But
he's a real barker in the band. I think, for the horn players
specifically--and it's a good point you brought up--horn players are used to
coming from more of a kind of jazz, mercenary background. That just tends to
be the culture around horn players as opposed to guitar players and stuff.
But these are guys that really, really can feel the--feel the power and the
energy of playing in a section and being part of a whole. And I think it's
that way for the whole band. You really have guys that are not coming into it
with ego, but are coming into it with, you know, with the idea of everybody,
you know, playing a part together and achieving something that nobody can
achieve individually. And I think that's something that's really refreshing,
especially coming out of certain circumstances sometimes in jazz where people
are more sidemen or just coming in to play solos and things like that.

GROSS: James Brown has obviously been a big influence on each of you. I'd
like you to each talk about the influence of James Brown on you. Sharon,
let's start with you.

Ms. JONES: Well, with me just, I guess being born in his hometown. And my
parents, I found out later my mother knew him. They used to play together.
My father knew him.

GROSS: Wait. Your mother used to play with James Brown?

Ms. JONES: Yeah.

GROSS: Really?

Ms. JONES: And like in Augusta it was something like they used to--some kind
of way they crossed paths as going somewhere, doing something, you know. Oh,
yeah, you know.

GROSS: Wait, wait. Do you mean playing music with him or just like playing
as kids?

Ms. JONES: No, they was young, you know. When he was out there doing his
thing like in front of the record store, before he owned anything, when he was
still dancing and shining shoes and making money, that type of thing, you
know. They knew each other from coming up. And my Uncle Willie told me that
he was like a--my father used to like tap with James and I used to dance out
on the streets. I was like, `Wow.' You know, so I don't--you know, you never
know these things. You know, when the older people get up and they start
talking sometime and I just found all this out like last year. So I'm like,
`Why I haven't heard this before?' So, you know, I like that call.

I think Uncle Willie just wanted to be talking, you know. But, no, still I
know that they didn't grow up. And once he was performing somewhere in
Augusta and I think I was maybe nine, 10, or maybe, you know, younger, and I
went to see him. And something happened. He was on the stage and I looked at
his foot and all I remembered saying to my father, I turned around and told
someone like, `He's floating, his foot--he's not even touching the floor.' And
I was like right at the stage eye level to James Brown's foot and I could
see--and I couldn't tell if that man--it was like he was floating. And that's
an experience that I just remembered that experience with James.

And then the next was when I saw him last year, April in Italy, right before,
you know, and he was a little weak. And I got to take the picture and I was
trying to get word in to him, `Oh, Mr. Brown, you know, my name's Sharon
Jones and we did that gig, you know, and'--he was like--looked me right in the
eye and said, `God bless you daughter.' And that was it, you know.

GROSS: So what influence has James Brown had on you as a singer and just as a
stage performer?

Ms. JONES: Well, basically with Daptone when I met them, it was like it
sounds so much like it reminded me of James Brown and the JB's, that music.
And then I knew where they was coming from with me singing. And I guess just
doing the music, hearing the music and always around these guys, playing the
JB's and the James Brown thing and I fit right in. I guess I was that female
James Brown that they--the sound.

GROSS: Well, while we're talking about James Brown, you know, James Brown was
often introduced on stage like in this great hyperbolic way. And you, I know,
have done that on record. I don't know if you do that for all the shows. But
why don't we play the introduction from the first Sharon Jones and the
Dap-Kings album. And this will give a taste of what I mean. Here it comes.

(Soundbite of Dap-Kings album)

Mr. BINKY GRIPTITE: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the
Daptone's super soul review. My name is Binky Griptite and we are the
Dap-Kings.

(Soundbite of applause)

Mr. GRIPTITE: Thank you very much.

Right now, for your enjoyment and pleasure, we would like to introduce to you
the funky and dynamic sister who's exciting dance floors across the nation
with her dynamic new sound. Soul brothers and sisters from coast to coast get
up and get down whenever her records are played. They're doing all the funky
new dances. They're doing the Bump and Touch, they're doing the Dap Hip,
everything. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm talking about 110 pounds of soul
excitement coming towards you. This sister is so bad, she's badder than bad.
I'm talking about the same sister that brought you such hits as "The
Landlord," "Damn, It's Hot"...(unintelligible). Bam! And now, ladies and
gentlemen, the star of our show, the super soul sister with the magnetic je ne
se qua, Ms. Sharon Jones.

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: That's the introduction from the first Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings
album. God, can you guys do that for me like when I host FRESH AIR?

Mr. ROTH: You know, we...

GROSS: That would be so great to have that kind of introduction.

Mr. ROTH: We can't do that. But I tell you, you got to hire Binky Griptite.

Ms. JONES: Binky. You got to get Binky.

Mr. ROTH: Binky Griptite has been a very integral part of our whole
operation for the last, you know, dozen years, you know. And he is not
just--I mean, he's a great, great guitar player. But just as far as
showmanship, he's kind of the guy that as an emcee kind of brings the show to
another level as a live show, you know. And he's definitely inspired not just
by James Brown but by Danny Ray, who always used to introduce James Brown.

GROSS: Does this help you really get in the mood to be on stage, hearing
that?

Ms. JONES: Oh, yes it does. I mean, when I'm behind the stage and Binky out
there, `magnetic'--I can't even say that, `magnetic je ne se qua.' Whatever

Mr. ROTH: Magnetic je ne.

Ms. JONES: Yeah. And I'm just back there. And he's just a screaming. And
he's going, `Miss Sharon! Miss'--you know, and I get so hyped, you know, the
blood start pumping. It feel like I'm getting ready to go on for a "Rocky"
show, the ring, you know, get ready to get in the boxing ring.

Mr. ROTH: You know, the live show we do is real different from the records.

Ms. JONES: Oh, yeah, definitely.

Mr. ROTH: And we don't try to do the same thing in the studio as we do on
stage and vice versa because it works differently. But as far as the live
show, it is really influenced not just by James Brown, but by Stax and all the
other kind of soul reviews that were going on in the late '60s, in the sense
of showmanship in that and the excitement that you don't see in a lot of shows
nowadays. And, you know, we kind of--we do a--you know, it's not formulaic,
but it's very similar. We usually start with some instrumentals and maybe
Binky will sing a few songs, and we kind of get the crowd going, and he'll
talk to the crowd and get them. You now, so it would kind of build up the
suspense. And then he gets into this huge intro. And that was, I mean, the
one that you just heard, that was from, what, five, six years ago or
something?

Ms. JONES: Yeah.

Mr. ROTH: Right? That was about seven years ago.

Ms. JONES: Yeah.

Mr. ROTH: So now it's a lot more hooked up. You know, the band is settled
in and there's a lot of--there's a lot of fireworks in the show. You know,
and Sharon is coming out and the band is blasting and we're cutting from one
song to another. And so it that way it's exciting.

GROSS: My guests are singer Sharon Jones and Gabriel Roth, the leader of the
band the Dap-Kings. Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings have a new CD called "100
Days, 100 Nights." They'll be back after a break.

This is FRESH AIR.

(Announcements)

GROSS: My guests are singer Sharon Jones and Gabriel Roth of the band the
Dap-Kings.

Well, let's hear another song from the new Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings
album "100 Days, 100 Nights." And this is called "When the Other Foot Drops,
Uncle." And, Gabe, you wrote this. Do you want to say a few words about the
song?

Mr. ROTH: Yeah. It's actually funny because I didn't think it was that
obscure, but people have thought this song was about some guy that's not
treating Sharon right. But it's actually a little political. Uncle--"When
the Other Foot Drops, Uncle" is about Uncle Sam. It's just kind of--it's just
a song about all the lies and corruption kind of eventually catching up and,
you know, the other shoe dropping. And, you know, obviously it's the Uncle
Sam we're talking, you know, Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld and all these
things. And these guys finally going to get caught up in all these lies about
everything, about weapons of mass destruction, oil money and the rest, I mean,
but that's what the song is about. And I think if you listen to it in that
light you hear the lyrics a little differently.

Ms. JONES: (Unintelligible)...

GROSS: Sharon, did you know that that was what it was about when you were
singing it?

Ms. JONES: Not really. So that's why I was just going to say, `Get out of
here.' My mouth is open, I'm looking at him like this, `Huh?'

Mr. ROTH: Yeah.

Ms. JONES: Because, I mean, people, they have asked me about this and I say,
`Well, you know, it's about somebody is being slick and they're going to get
caught up in what they're doing.' You know? Their lies and whatever they're
doing, it's going to get caught up. So now it's good. So when I get
interviewed with people I actually know what to say.

Mr. ROTH: Yeah, there's a line in that song about "your crafty little
pencil"...

Ms. JONES: Pencil.

Mr. ROTH: ..."is running out of lead," and everybody thinks that's some kind
of impotency thing.

Ms. JONES: It's just--yeah, yeah.

Mr. ROTH: They're saying because...

Ms. JONES: They say, `Hey, Sharon, what do you mean about the "little crafty
little pencil"?' I'm like, you know, `That's really--Gabe wrote the song, you
know.'

Mr. ROTH: Yeah. Anyway.

GROSS: Well, I have to say, that's what I thought it meant, "the crafty
little pencil" thing.

Mr. ROTH: I know.

GROSS: And I thought--I was going to ask you, Gabe, like "Uncle"? I mean,
like, this wasn't a relationship with her uncle, is it? So I was a little
confused. OK.

Mr. ROTH: You know, that's actually why we stuck an "Uncle" on the end of
the title.

Ms. JONES: Yeah.

Mr. ROTH: We kind of hung that on there at the end. It was like, `Well,
here you go.'

GROSS: I thought this was some kind of like expression that only I didn't
get.

Mr. ROTH: I tell you, it makes a lot more sense than "goo, goo ka choo," I
guess, so.

GROSS: I'll give you that.

Ms. JONES: That's great.

GROSS: OK, well, it's a great song no matter how you want to interrupt it.
So here it is, "When The Other Foot Drops, Uncle." It's Sharon Jones and the
Dap-Kings.

(Soundbite of "When the Other Foot Drops, Uncle")

Ms. JONES (Singing)
Oh, the way you lie to get your taste, Uncle
Oh, the things you lay to waste
But every dog has its day, Uncle
And it just can't go on, it just can't go on this way
Hmmmm
For the day will surely come
You're going to pay for all you've done
There won't be no where to run
You going to be found out, oh, yeah
You can bet you're going to lose your clout
You've been tramping around this world like you're the only one living
But soon enough you're going to get back some of what you've been giving
The lies that you've been spinning up are running out of tread
And your crafty little pencil is running out of lead

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: That's Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings from their new CD "100 Days, 100
Nights." And my guests are the lead singer, Sharon Jones, and Gabriel Roth,
who is the band leader, co-founder of the group, the lead songwriter and bass
player.

Sharon, I've got a few questions for you.

And then, Gabe, I've got a few questions for you. And, Gabe, feel free to
jump in if something like you want to add to what Sharon says here.

Mr. ROTH: OK.

GROSS: First of all, actually I've got a question for both of you, which is
how did you find each other?

Ms. JONES: Ah, well, Gabe was looking. He was looking for three background
singers to do some vocals for Lee Fields. And my ex used to play the
saxophone with the...(unintelligible)...with the guys and they were, you know,
Soul Providers.

Mr. ROTH: Mm-hmm.

Ms. JONES: And he was like, `Well, my lady sings.' They were like, `The lady
can sing?' And I said, `Yeah, I can do all three parts.' So when I went in
Gabe heard me, everything worked, everyone was happy.

Mr. ROTH: Mm-hmm. And then we ended up cutting two more songs that day with
you singing lead.

Ms. JONES: Yes, right. "Switchblade" and...

Mr. ROTH: And "The Landlord," I believe.

Ms. JONES: "The Landlord," I believe, yeah.

GROSS: There's a great story I'd like you to tell, Gabe, about recording
Sharon doing a track that was intended for a man. The track was called
"Switchblade." Tell us the story.

Mr. ROTH: Well, originally Sharon just, like she said, she'd come into the
studio to sing backgrounds and there were two tracks on this album that we
wanted background vocals. One was the one for Lee Fields, which she nailed in
a second at all three parts. It blew me away. All of a sudden--it's the
first thing I ever did that sounded like a record to me. And then there's
this other song called "Switchblade." And there was this guy, this kind of
comedian friend we had that wanted to do this whole long kind of, you know,
this whole long talking rap--well, when I say rap, I mean, you know, he's just
talking about, `Oh, I just got out of prison. I'm going to cut you with my
switchblade.' And then Sharon would come in with...

Ms. JONES: (Singing) Switchblade.

Mr. ROTH: Yeah. So she cut all those background vocals, you know, and she
was having a gas. Anyway, while I was cutting the last track of backing
vocals she just started talking smack, and we were rolling on the floor. It
was much funnier than the guy who was going to do it. So I just rewound the
tape real quick and just told her to go for it, and I ran the tape at a little
bit higher speed so she could--because she was trying to do a lower voice
anyway. So I just ran the tape a little bit fast for her, and she just went
through the whole thing, `I'm going to slit you where the good Lord split
you,' and all the--the whole thing. And she went off for about three or four
minutes straight...

Ms. JONES: Talking.

Mr. ROTH: ...in just in one take. And that was, man, we had a gas. That
was actually--it was strange. That was really the first lead vocal that we
cut together, and it wasn't really a vocal. She was just talking smack. But,
you know, it was something. It was kind of my first glimpse into the kind of
personality and the kind of wit that--and the charisma that she had that, you
know, enabled her to kind of create an entire show sometimes out of--you know,
people just staring at her and she's just talking nonsense sometimes and
people are having a blast. But--and then after that, you know, she sang "The
Landlord," which is a song that I had written angrily. I was going through an
eviction. It's typical New York stuff at the time, so she sang a song about
my landlord. And, you know, after that we did a bunch of 45s and eventually
an album, and another album and here we are.

GROSS: Well, "Switchblade" is really hard to find. It's out of print, but
fortunately you have a copy for us to hear. So why don't we listen to it?

Mr. ROTH: Yeah. OK.

(Soundbite of "Switchblade")

Ms. JONES:
I've told you to get away from me
Don't make me cut you with this switchblade
I'll cut you up, I'll cut you up bad
I'll cut you so bad your mama won't know you
Just step away now
I'll slit you where the good Lord split you,
Double, twice and three times more

Just get on away from here now
Don't make me slice you
Don't make me slice you cause I'm fast and I'm mad
Now you talking about groovy, groovy
The only thing going to be groovy is blood gonna be flyin'
When I finish slicing you up now
Move on away now
Step on back
Mm, yeah now
Move on away now
That's why they call me

(Singing) Switchblade

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: So that's "Switchblade" with my guest Sharon Jones, recorded so she
could be slowed down and sound like a man.

And my guests are Sharon Jones, who is the lead singer of Sharon Jones and the
Dap-Kings, and Gabriel Roth, who is the founder of the band, the lead
songwriter and the bass player.

So, Sharon, I know you spent some time as a prison guard at Riker's Island.
Did you record this rap before or after you held that job?

Ms. JONES: After.

GROSS: So you had inspiration for this?

Ms. JONES: Oh, yeah, I was ready. I think maybe that's why when I went in
it was so sharp, everything just came real fast. You know? And actually, I
remember when I went in the studio they asked the question of, pretend, you
know, some guy, you know, like, you know, a bad guy would cut you so fast with
a razor, you know, back in the day, just talking smack like in the alley or
something. And so that's when I went to the junkyard dog, tuck his tail under
the rug when he see me coming. And it was all just like spurt, I mean, just
the words just flew out. It was like I didn't even think of what I was
saying, concentrating on, I just went with it.

GROSS: Sharon Jones and Gabriel Roth will be back in the second half of the
show. Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings latest CD is called "100 Days, 100
Nights."

I'm Terry Gross and this is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of song)

Ms. JONES: (Singing)
I done left you here
All by yourself
But it ain't my fault, baby
Oh, you treated me like a fool
And I'll tell you, it ain't my fault, baby
Oh, I thought you treated me so cruel
I know why baby, I ain't...

(End of soundbite)

(Announcements)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross, back with singer Sharon Jones and
Gabriel Roth of the band the Dap-Kings. Their sound is inspired by soul music
of the '60s, but many of their songs are originals. Their latest album is
called "100 Days, 100 Nights." Roth produced it, wrote many of the songs and
plays bass.

Before Jones was able to make a living as a singer, one of her jobs was
serving as a prison guard at Riker's Island in New York. She told me how she
got the job.

Ms. JONES: I took the test. I took a lot of tests at that time. I took the
police test, you know, then...

GROSS: What was the test like? I mean, what you really need to do is be able
to, you know, get people to respect you.

Ms. JONES: No, they...

GROSS: How do you pass a test on that?

Ms. JONES: Oh, they give you a psychological test, you know, the physical
test you have to go through, the background check on you, you know. And it
was great. I think I would have still been there but it just took me away
from my singing, you know, the music. You know, it was like a career. And
after being in there it was like an omen. My first week they stuck me outside
and I pulled a groin muscle on the side, I fell. Then I came back and I was
in a--that's so weird--a car accident. A truck hit me and I was out for
another like nine months. And they forced me back to work. And at the same
day I came to work I had a back brace and neck brace, you know, and I'm
walking on--and fell on the curb so now I'm injured again...

GROSS: Oh, no.

Ms. JONES: ...but now it's--I'm telling you, it was an omen. It wasn't
meant for me. I fell on the job. Now it's comp and I'm out again for another
couple of months. And so when I finally came in they said, you know, the
lawyer said, `Why don't you just resign? This way they won't fire you.' And
so I resigned for medical reasons.

GROSS: Well, how many days did you actually work?

Ms. JONES: OK, I was at it at two years, from '88 to '90, maybe six, eight
months.

GROSS: So when you were there, given how you kept injuring yourself and you
weren't in the best physical shape, how were you able to convince the
prisoners that you were strong enough and focused enough to do the job and
keep them in line?

Ms. JONES: Let me tell you, it's the look in my eyes. You may have like 80
inmates to maybe three officers or two officers or two officers, so it was
really weird. But you could not show fear. And that's one thing I didn't
show, you know, and I got the respect from them right there and they knew that
I didn't take stuff. I wasn't scared.

GROSS: Let's hear another track from Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings. And
this song is called "Humble Me." And this is another song, Gabe, that you
wrote. Do you want to say anything about writing or recording this track?

Mr. ROTH: Well, it's a very simple song. There wasn't much to write, it's
just a couple of chords and some simple heartfelt words that Sharon could
really get into. I mean, the thing that I learned about writing is that, you
know, I've never been a genius or anything, but I learned how to kind of get
out of the way of great musicians and great singers. So, you know, if you
listen to this song, there's not much to the writing in it. But I think
Sharon puts a lot of heart into it, you know.

Ms. JONES: It goes--actually I think that song, you, like, you was writing
something about me, the inside of me. But I think, you know, by knowing me
all these years, Gabe knew that how I am with the church. I'm always saying
that, you know, I'm so thankful for what God gave me. So that's why I'm
always saying, `If you see me like, I'm like I'm higher than everybody else,
you know, bring me down. Let me know that I'm not.' If you see me up here
wanting all these here fancy things, which he knows they don't never see me
out here flashing and wanting stuff, but if you see me doing that--I want all
these shoes that cost 2,000, 3,000--think about that man over there who don't
even have a foot, it's cut off, you know, don't even have legs, you know. And
then I'm also thankful, humble for when I'm on the road. People come out and
pay to come and see me. And I get on that stage and I'm humble for them
coming out to see me every night. And I'm so thankful for them, for God for
having me be able to dance and jump and sing and keep my voice open. So that
song is just about me thanking God and being humble for my blessings.

GROSS: All right. Here it is. Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings, "Humble Me"
from their new CD "100 Days, 100 Nights."

(Soundbite of "Humble Me")

Ms. JONES: (Singing)
Humble me
Humble me
Don't let me forget who I am
Mm-hmm
Humble me
Humble me
Don't let me forget who I am
When I start talking down like I'm hovering above, oh, yeah
Like I'm made of something better, oh, than what you're made of
And when you hear me asking for all kinds of fancy things
Things you'll never have, no
And things you know you can't bring
Don't be afraid to humble me

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: That's Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings. And with me in the studio is
Sharon Jones and Gabe Roth, who is co-founder of the Dap-Kings, leader of the
band, writer of most of the songs including the one we just heard, and bass
player.

Gabe, now you write songs under the name Bosco Mann, and you perform under the
name Bosco Mann. Where does that name come from and why did you feel that you
needed to have a stage name?

Mr. ROTH: Well, it's actually--it's very different now than when we started
making records. When we first started making records, it was a very different
kind of business for us. We were, you know, I was about 19, 20 years old, and
we were really into these old records. And we would make kind of these fake
old records, you know, reissues of a sound. The first record album we did was
a reissue of a soundtrack to a Kung Fu movie that never existed. You know, we
just kind of made this stuff up. And so we were just having a blast making
things up and putting them out. And people were buying them. And then we
said, `Oh, great, man, people really like this music.' So we started using,
you know, we'd do a real name and say, `OK, this is a new record we just
recorded.' And nobody was interested. We couldn't give them away. So we got
kind of more into this fake thing. And we did a lot. Man, we all used a lot
of fake names. Man, you know, we did a fake satyr records and African
records, all different kinds of stuff with all kinds of crazy names.

But really once I got deeper into it, I had another problem which was that the
first record label that we had going, Desco Records, was funded a lot by
credit cards and, you know, other people that I borrowed money from. So once
we did start selling records, I was really worried about putting my real name
on any of them because I had so many collection--I mean, I was sleeping on
somebody's floor and I had--was paying so much money to credit card companies
every month, and so many people coming down on me trying to get money. I just
didn't want to put my real name on anything.

But, you know, in the long run it actually worked out well because, you know,
when I'm on the road and somebody comes up to me and they say, `Hey, Bosco,
it's good to see you again.' I know right away this is not somebody I'm real
close to, so I can say, `Hey, it's good to see you too.' And I don't have to
try to remember who they are.

GROSS: So how did you come up with the name?

Mr. ROTH: Well, the Bosco part of it actually my dad wanted to name me
Hieronymus after Hieronymus Bosch and was going to call me Bosco for short.
And my mom wouldn't let him do it, so eventually he named his dog Bosco. So
that was for him. And the Mann part of it was one of the first two records we
did there was a guitar player named Scott Mann that played on the record and,
you know, he used his real name Scott Mann. I just thought it would be cool
to have some brothers in the rhythm section so I said, `Yeah, I'll be his
brother. I'll be Bosco Mann.' But, yeah I didn't really think that much of
it, you know. It's always the things that you don't really think of as too
much that end up--you end up explaining for years.

Ms. JONES: Follow you, right.

GROSS: Were there other names you used like on the fake satyr record?

Mr. ROTH: Yeah. "Bill Ravi Harris," I think, did the satyr record. There
was a couple of others I tried, different things. And a lot of guys, you
know, used different names for different things. But it was, you know, at the
time it was real goofy. It wasn't, you know, we weren't really like a--we
didn't see ourselves as a legitimate part of the recording industry. We were
making these 45s and vinyl LPs, and we were selling them to people that are
avid collectors of old records, you know. So it was a very strange scene to
start with. It wasn't the same thing as trying to do a record these days, you
know.

GROSS: My guests are singer Sharon Jones and Gabriel Roth, co-founder of the
band the Dap-Kings. Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings have a new CD called "100
Days, 100 Nights." They'll be back after a break.

This is FRESH AIR.

(Announcements)

GROSS: My guests are singer Sharon Jones and Gabriel Roth, co-founder of the
band the Dap-Kings.

One of the things that the Dap-Kings are known for is that, in your studio,
you don't use digital recording technology. You use reel to reel tapes. You
used to record on vinyl. But anyways you shy away from like the new digital
technology. Why? Like what do you hear? What kind of sound can you get on
analog that you feel you can't get on digital?

Mr. ROTH: I mean, there's a lot of differences. But the main difference, I
mean, the thing is I've had a lot of technical--I have very often engineers or
producers or something will try to, you know, will engage me in these very
technical conversations about what gear they're using, what kind of mikes or
what kind of tape machine. But really, you know, my answer every time--which
is, you know, is not trying to be modest or anything, but just being
truthful--is that really 99 percent of what's in a record is what's coming out
of the musicians. And I think that the arrangements and the sound the
musicians have on their instruments that, you know, Dave Guy on the trumpet
and Tommy playing guitar and Homer Steinweiss playing drums, these guys, all
of them, the whole band, everybody's got a sound on their instrument. And
they actually sound like that. And a lot of people think I'm doing some crazy
studio tricks, but really most of it is them.

As far as that last 1 percent, I think there's a lot of disadvantages to
modern approaches to recording. One of them is that they tend to approach
everything digitally with as many tracks as possible with everything is
recorded to a computer so you can hit undo. If somebody is recording a solo,
you can have him record it 35 times and then take the best notes from them.
And if they say, `Oh, well, you think that was good?' `Well, I don't know,
maybe try it again and we'll see.' When you're using--when you're recording to
like an eight track tape machine, you're recording mostly live and things are
being mixed together. And if somebody goes back and I say, `Man, you know, I
don't know about that solo I played.' You know, I'd look them in the eye and
say, `Hey, are you going to play it better than that?' And they either have to
say yes or no. And you need great musicians to go back in there and either
play it better or not.

And, I mean, there's definitely good sound out of a tape, you know, the sound
of recording to tape has a certain compression and a certain warmth that's
desirable. But I don't think that's a huge part of what we're doing. I think
it has much more to do with the approach of the musicians and just the
approach of recording just the, you know, the strategy of it.

GROSS: Well, now the Dap-Kings in your studio are at the point where people
are taking their artists to your band and to your studio, most famously
perhaps Amy Winehouse. You're on several tracks from her latest album to
which her--are particularly popular. So I thought we would hear one of them.
And let me ask you to talk about playing behind "You Know I'm No Good."

Mr. ROTH: Well, I think that Homer was definitely a huge part of that--Homer
Steinweiss, our drummer. I think, his drums are right up front and the sound
of his drums and the feel that he has is very unique, and I don't think
anybody else could do that. So I think that helped a lot. Dave Guy, trumpet
player, I wrote horn parts. You know, the band really sank into that
arrangement, you know. And Mark Bronson, the producer, he's always real easy
to work with and, you know, so Amy had all the songs done so we basically
chartered out the chords and went in and kind of put the arrangement together
and knocked it out.

GROSS: So you just added it to the pre-existing? I bet they sounded a lot
different when you were done.

Mr. ROTH: No, well, she--we had a demo. We had a CD demo of I think it was
mostly her with a guitar strumming through a chord and singing. And we built
the arrangement from that. So we recorded from scratch, but, you know, she
had the song written.

GROSS: I see.

Mr. ROTH: But, you know, we record--we put the arrangement together and
recorded it and stuff with Mark in the studio.

GROSS: What I find interesting about this is that you're so into the sound
like that kind of '60s soul sound, but the mix of this is so different because
the drums are so far up front.

Mr. ROTH: Yeah. That's right.

GROSS: And it's a very contemporary, kind of, you know, drum beat sound. So
you've got this...

Mr. ROTH: Yeah, I didn't do any of that.

GROSS: ...kind of hip-hop sound up front and then the horns behind.

Ms. JONES: More hip-hop, yeah.

GROSS: Yeah.

Mr. ROTH: Well, the way it worked, it's worked with the productions. With a
lot of the production we've done like that is they've come into our studio,
Bronson would come into the studio. We would record the tracks, sometimes the
horns, sometimes he would do the horns someplace else, and then he would take
the tracks with him. You know, he would take the tape. He would dump it into
a computer and do whatever he's going to do with them. But the Winehouse
thing is a, you know, I think it's a great record. She's a very talented
singer and songwriter. Bronson is a great producer. But it's not really our
thing. It was like they come in and we spend a couple of afternoons, knock
out some tracks for them and they take them with and do whatever they want
with them. You know, so it's a different--we have a very different
relationship with that. It's not really like our record. It's a, you know,
little something on the side there, you know.

GROSS: Let's hear it. This is Amy Winehouse with the Dap-Kings playing
behind her, and here it comes.

(Soundbite of "You Know I'm No Good")

Ms. AMY WINEHOUSE: (Singing)
Meet you downstairs in the bar and hole
Your rolled up sleeves, in your skull T-shirt
You say what did you do with him today
And sniff me out like I was Tanqueray

Cause you're my fella, my guy
Hand me your stella and fly
By the time I'm out the door
You tear men down like Roger Moore

I cheated myself
Like I knew I would
I told you I was trouble
You know that I'm no good

Upstairs in bed with my ex-boy...

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: That's Amy Winehouse, "You Know I'm No Good," and behind her is the
Dap-Kings. And my guests are Gabe Roth, he's the leader of the band. He
writes most of the band's songs. He's a bass player. And Sharon Jones, who's
the lead singer of Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings. But we just heard the Dap
Kings behind Amy Winehouse. And you not only recorded the horns for Amy
Winehouse, you went on tour with her. Was that a really different experience
than going on tour with Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings?

Mr. ROTH: Oh, yeah. It's a completely, completely different show. Amy, you
know, to her credit, like I said, she's a great singer and she writes good
songs. But basically you go out there and you play down for 30 or 40 minutes.
You kind of play down the songs, and she kind of sings them and you're done.
And, you know, the band always comes off the stage with the same feeling,
like, `Hey, man, when do we get to play the gig?' Because with Sharon, man
this band is, like, sweating. And, I mean, really guys are sweating entirely
through a suit every night. We go out there and we're stomping and playing,
and guys are playing to the edge of their ability and the edge of their
endurance until the end of the night. And it goes on sometimes an hour and a
half, two hours, two and a half hours, basically until Sharon is done with us.
So it's a completely different thing.

GROSS: So one more question before we have to end. I haven't had the
pleasure of seeing you on stage, only of listened to your recordings. So what
do you look like, all of you, on stage? How do you dress? I mean, some of
the soul reviews you're talking about like really loud clothes.

Ms. JONES: Well, I don't think it's loud. But you go up there, you tell
her. Come on.

Mr. ROTH: Well, no. We keep it sharp. Everybody's got suits and ties and
shined shoes and locked in step, man, the whole horn section has got some
unbelievable steps. The band is always stepping together and playing
together. And Sharon always looks unbelievable. She comes out and is usually
a blur from the beginning of the show to the end. You've never seen something
move so much. So, yeah, visually it's definitely an event, too.

GROSS: I guess those injuries from your prison guard days aren't holding you
back?

Ms. JONES: No, they're not.

GROSS: OK.

Mr. ROTH: Yeah.

GROSS: Well, thanks to both of you for talking with us. It's really been
fun. Thanks a lot.

Ms. JONES: Thank you.

Mr. ROTH: Thank you.

GROSS: Sharon Jones and Gabriel Roth.

Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings' latest CD is called "100 Days, 100 Nights."
Next month you can see Jones in the film "The Great Debaters" directed by
Denzel Washington. She plays a juke joint singer in the 1930s. Here she is
on the soundtrack.

(Soundbite of song)

Ms. JONES: (Singing)
I'm a long tall mama
They call me a chocolate brown
Give me two drinks of whiskey and you'll see me clown
That's what my baby likes, mm
That's what my baby likes
Well he's crazy about me and he do let me have my fun

I'm five feet standing, six feet laying down
I'm a big, mean woman form my head on down
That's what my baby likes, oh
Mm, that's what my baby likes

Well, well he's crazy about me and he do let me have my fun
Now listen here, sometimes I think I will quit my man
Then again I'm scared he'll raise some sin
I got what my baby likes, yeah
I got what my baby likes
Ooh, well he's crazy about me and he do let me have my fun
Mm, I don't care how bad the...

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: Coming up, Ken Tucker reviews Britney Spears' new CD.

This is FRESH AIR.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Review: Ken Tucker on new Britney Spears CD "Blackout"
TERRY GROSS, host:

In recent years, Britney Spears has become a tabloid fixture for her marital
and child custody problems. Her public behavior has overshadowed her music
career. Rock critic Ken Tucker says while it's impossible not to think about
Spears' current image and image problems, the music she makes on her new album
"Blackout," her first studio album since 2003, is well worth listening to.

(Soundbite of "Freak Show")

Ms. BRITNEY SPEARS: (Singing)
Ten PM to four
And I came to hit the floor
Thought you knew me before
But if you don't then now you know
Well tonight I'm 'bout to mash
Make them other chicks so mad
I'm 'bout to shake my ass
Watch that boy

It's all about me and you
Doin' what we do
Tear the floor up, up, up
Tell them to make room
They wanna know, tell them I'm alone
They wanna look, we can give 'em an encore

Make it a freak show...

(End of soundbite)

Mr. KEN TUCKER: That song, "Freak Show," arrives about midway through
Britney Spears new album. It addresses, with the help of five other credited
writers, what she suspects, fears and glories in what she has become to a
large part of the audience that is interested in her. I'm going to hazard a
guess here and say you probably aren't. So why am I reviewing "Blackout"?
Because it is, against all odds, a good album. A good pop album for those of
us who consume most of our music at home or in the car. And from the trade
music publications I read, a good dance club album for those of you who go out
at night and use music for fun and courtship.

It tickles my ears to listen to the clever use of technology amassed to
construct Britney's further disquisition on fame and it's hazards, a song
called "Piece of Me." Listen to the Swedish production duo that calls itself
Bloodshy & Avant. They produce Spears' terrific 2003 single "Toxic." Now they
contrast Britney's sly complaint with witty jingle jangles and an inexorable,
irresistible beat.

(Soundbite of "Piece of Me")

Ms. SPEARS: (Singing)
I'm Miss American Dream since I was 17
Don't matter if I step on the scene
Or sneak away to the Philippines
They still gonna put pictures of my derriere in the magazine
You want a piece of me
You want a piece of me

I'm Miss Bad Media Karma
Another day, another drama
Guess I can't see the harm
In working and being a mama
And with a kid on my arm
I'm still an exceptional earner
You want a piece of me

I'm Miss Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous
You want a piece of me
I'm Mrs. Oh my God that Britney, shameless
You want a piece of me
I'm Mrs. Extra, Extra this just in
You want a piece of me
I'm Mrs. she's too big now she's too thin
You want a piece of me.

(End of soundbite)

Mr. TUCKER: "Piece of Me" offers sound effects pleasures mingling with
Spears mixed emotions. She says with some resentment, or is it pride, quote,
"I've been Miss American Dreams since I was 17." She refers to her media over
exposure with the phrase "my derriere in a magazine." Derriere used to avoid
an FCC fine and make the meter in the line scan properly. Who says she isn't
mindful of craft, even if she isn't actually writing the song? Britney's
voice is heard in two variations over the course of "Blackout." A low, slurry
growl as on "Piece of Me," and a high pitched electronically distorted squeal
on a song such as "Hot As Ice."

(Soundbite of "Hot As Ice")

Ms. SPEARS: (Singing)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

I'm just a girl with the ability to drive a man crazy, crazy
Make him call me mama, mama
Make him my new baby, baby
New and improved and sayin' thank you very much, ah, ahhh
Living legend
You can look, but don't touch

Cause I'm, ooh, cold as fire baby, hot as ice
If you've ever been to heaven, this is twice as nice
I'm cold as fire baby, hot as ice

(End of soundbite)

Mr. TUCKER: To object to the fact that "Hot As Ice," with it's refrain "I'm
as hot as ice," makes no sense, is like objecting to the fact that "The
Simpsons" are cartoonish. For Britney, lyrics are either undisguised message
blasts sent out to those she loves or hates, or mere syllables she uses to
make pleasant noises. "Hot As Ice" is one of the later. Her opening
exclamations are as crucial to the catchiness as any of the instruments that
surround her.

(Soundbite of "Ooh, Ooh Baby")

Ms. SPEARS: (Singing)
The way you smile, the way you taste
You know I have an appetite for sexy things
All you do is look at me, it's a disgrace
What's running through my mind is you,
Up in my face
Yeah, yeah

Your voice is like music to my ears
Whisper softly and the world just disappears
Take me higher and just wipe away my fears
If you're with me
Oh, boy, it's my heartbeat that I hear

Ooh, ooh baby
Touch me and I come alive
I can feel you on my lips
I can feel you deep inside
Ooh, ooh baby
In your arms I finally breathe
Wrap me up in all your love
That's the oxygen I need, yeah

You're fillin' me up
You're fillin' me up

(End of soundbite)

Mr. TUCKER: With its marshal beat and baby, baby, baby chorus, that song
"Ooh, Ooh Baby" combines with the early song "Piece of Me" to suggest just how
mechanical Spears feels going through the motions of being a pop star. In
"Piece of Me" she refers to herself as "Miss Bad Media Karma," a phrase that
signals a soul denying self reflection, a persona that's close to, as her
album title puts it, blacking out. She makes interesting music about feeling
trapped in a miserable period in her career, and perhaps, or is that
certainly, in her life.

As a portrait of an artist who feels played out, lacking in new life
experiences that might inspire new subjects for her music as well as new
reasons to live, "Blackout" is thoroughly convincing. It has the very
authenticity that Britney haters claim she lacks. It thus makes it impossible
to dismiss.

GROSS: Ken Tucker is editor at large for Entertainment Weekly. He reviewed
Britney Spears' new album "Blackout."

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