Al Jean, Getting Intimate with 'The Simpsons'

DATE July 26, 2007 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: Al Jean, executive producer and writer from "The
Simpsons," on the new "Simpsons" movie
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

Marge, Homer, Bart and Lisa are about to become movie stars. The new movie
adaptation of America's longest-running sitcom opens tomorrow. My guest Al
Jean has worked on "The Simpsons" since it became a series in 1989. He's
currently head writer and an executive producer. And he's a writer and
producer of "The Simpsons Movie."

Let's start with a scene from the film.
The story has a satirical
environmental theme. Home has adopted a pet pig and has no idea what to do
with the pig's droppings. So he fills a silo with the stinky stuff, but then
can't figure out what to do with the silo. In a move that he thinks is pretty
clever, Homer dumps the silo in Springfield's already-polluted lake, creating
an environmental catastrophe. When the townspeople find out, they want
revenge. In this scene, an angry mob of men and women carrying torches is in
front of the Simpsons' house.

Al Jean

000 – clip which segs to “Al Jean, WTFA”…
(Soundbite of "The Simpsons Movie")

Ms. JULIE KAVNER: (As Marge Simpson) Homer. You have to go out there, face
that mob and apologize for what you did.

Mr. DAN CASTELLANETA: (As Homer Simpson) I would, but I'm afraid if I open
the door, they'll take all of you.

Mr. HANK AZARIA: (As Carl Carlson) No we won't. We just want Homer.

Mr. CASTELLANETA: (As Homer Simpson) Well, maybe not you, but they'll kill
Grandpa.

Mr. CASTELLANETA: (As Abraham Simpson) I was part of the mob!

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: AL JEAN, WELCOME BACK TO FRESH AIR. "THE SIMPSONS" HAVE BEEN ON THE
AIR NEARLY 20 YEARS, AND THE CHARACTERS NEVER AGE, WHICH IS OK BECAUSE THEY'RE
ANIMATED. BUT I THINK SOME OF THEM HAVE REALLY KIND OF CHANGED AND CHANGED
WITH THE TIMES. DO YOU WANT TO CHOOSE ONE OR TWO CHARACTERS AND TELL US HOW
YOU THINK THEY'VE CHANGED?

Mr. AL JEAN: Well, there have been some changes that weren't intentional
just because, although the characters don't age, you know, we the writers
certainly have...

GROSS: Right.

Mr. JEAN: ...and at the beginning I think we identified more with the kids
because we almost were kids, and as we started to continue doing the show,
more plots would come up for Homer. And I think that's because, you know, we
were getting older and we related to him better. And honestly, as the years
go by, I'm starting to drift into Grandpa territory. Maybe that will be the
next way we go.

106
GROSS: DID YOU HAVE CHILDREN WHILE YOU WERE WORKING ON "THE SIMPSONS"?

Mr. JEAN: Yes. I have two daughters. One, 16; and one, two. **fix upcut @ 112**

GROSS: DID YOU EVER GO THROUGH A PARENTING MOMENT WHERE YOU THOUGHT, `OH NO!
I DID THAT JUST LIKE HOMER"?

Mr. JEAN: I, you know, do things like Homer although they usually go the
other way. I do them and then they find their way into the show. Like one
thing that I did was, years ago, I had a six-foot party sub in my refrigerator
left over from a party and I would continue eating it, you know, to the point
where it really wasn't good for me and, of course, with Homer, we did it to
the point where he actually start turning blue and shaking but still eating
the sandwich when--you know, everybody who works on the show has similar
stories.

40
146
GROSS: NOW WHAT--JUST GO THROUGH THE TITLES THAT YOU'VE HAD OVER THE YEARS ON
"THE SIMPSONS."

Mr. JEAN: Well, at the beginning I was called a consulting producer, and the
thing was, the people who were turning the shorts into half-hour episodes,
which was Jim Brooks, Matt Groening and Sam Simon, could afford two writers
two days a week. So my friends didn't want the job, but I basically said,
`I'll work cheap and I'll work hard.' And you know, seriously, I also felt--I
wasn't, you know, predicting this was going to be a show that would last, you
know, over 400 episodes and turn into a feature film, but I loved Matt's work
in "Life in Hell," and Sam and Jim, the work they had done on "Taxi," and Jim
on "Mary Tyler Moore," was the best work I thought had ever been done in
television. So I really was excited to take the job and I thought the show
was going to be good, if nothing else.

And when it became full time, I became the show runner in seasons three and
four, and after that, worked on it part-time while I pursued other projects,
which a lot of the writers did then. And at every point, I would always sit
there and some time during the day and go, `I wish I was back at "The
Simpsons."' So I came back full time in season 10 and have been there full
time ever since and have run the show from season thirteen till now.

308
GROSS: WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE THE SHOW RUNNER?

Mr. JEAN: Being the show runner basically means that whatever goes wrong is
my fault. I'm involved in all phases. I came up as a writer, so I write. I
supervise the writing. I work with the budgets. I direct the actors, audio.
I work with the animation directors. I go over the storyboards, edit the
audio, edit the picture. Work with the composer Alf Clausen, work on the
special effects, the sound effects, the video effects that go into the show.
Basically I involve myself with every aspect of the show and have
responsibility for it.

339
GROSS: SO WHAT WAS THE FIRST "SIMPSONS" EPISODE YOU WORKED ON?

Mr. JEAN: The first "Simpsons" episode I worked on was the first episode
that aired, the half-hour Christmas special in 1989, and the episode was
basically written by Sam Simon, Matt Groening, Mike Reiss, and myself. And
when I first saw it as a, you know, final cut, I was sitting there going,
`This is the best thing I've ever been involved with.' I wanted to spend the
rest of my career doing this, and little did I dream...

GROSS: WHAT DID YOU LIKE SO MUCH ABOUT IT?

Mr. JEAN: Well, what I liked was what I had always responded to in Jim
Brooks' shows, which was it was funny but there was a warmth to it, and at the
end of that episode--Homer didn't get a Christmas bonus, but he goes to the
dog track and loses all his money, but then gets a dog that the owner doesn't
want and brings the dog home, and the family's happy with him because he did.
And there was a warmth to that that was so wonderful and, you know, that we
have, you know, recaptured on the best moments of the series, I still get
choked up a little thinking about it.

447
GROSS: DO YOU REMEMBER THE FIRST JOKE THAT YOU CONTRIBUTED TO "THE SIMPSONS"?

Mr. JEAN: I don't remember the first. I know that the very first episode is
titled "Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire," and I pitched that. I remember
the first time I really made Jim Brooks laugh was in that episode. We were
talking about the name for the dog, and I had said, you know, it was Christmas
so because it should be a good omen and Homer would want to bet on him we
could say Santa's Little Helper. And then we were doing this thing where
Homer came home and Marge said, `What's the dog's name?' and I
pitched--because it had been a greyhound at the race track--that Homer goes,
`Number eight--I mean, Santa's Little Helper,' and he really laughed at that,
and I just was going, `Wow, I made Jim Brooks laugh. That's exciting.'

540
GROSS: WERE THERE ANY CHARACTERS YOU CREATED?

Mr. JEAN: Yes. Ralph Wiggum was one of the characters that we created. I
also was one of the people that created Phil Hartman's characters: Lionel
Hudson, Troy McClure, and Comic Book Guy. And much of the show was in the
shorts and, you know, was elaborated in the series. The first episode
featuring Lisa, "Moaning Lisa," was from an idea of Jim's, and Mike Reiss and
I wrote it, and when we did, we said, you know, `We've been on shows that were
a little sketchier like "Alf" or the first "Gary Shandling Show." We're going
to really go for emotion here,' and it was something that I was, you know, so
proud of when we did it, and I think it really helped make Lisa's character
what it became.

620
GROSS: YOU MENTIONED TROY MCCLURE, ONE OF THE PHIL HARTMAN CHARACTERS. YOU
KNOW, I'M SO SORRY THAT PHIL HARTMAN PASSED AWAY A FEW YEARS AGO...

Mr. JEAN: He was a wonderful, wonderful man. Terrific to work with.

GROSS: YEAH, YOU REALLY LOST A LOT OF CHARACTERS AND, I'M SURE, A GREAT
FRIEND WHEN HE DIED. BUT, YOU KNOW, GETTING BACK TO TROY MCCLURE, HE WAS LIKE
THIS REALLY FUNNY, VAIN CHARACTER THAT SEEMED TO BE A COMBINATION OF TWO
ACTORS, YOU KNOW, TROY MCCLURE--I MEAN, TROY DONAHUE AND DOUG MCCLURE...

Mr. JEAN: Troy Donahue and Doug McClure. Both of whom were angered by the
name.

GROSS: WERE THEY REALLY? YEAH.

Mr. JEAN: Yeah.

GROSS: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE HOW YOU CAME UP WITH THE CHARACTER?

Mr. JEAN: Well, the name synthesis is a good example of how we come up with
things. We were working on a rewrite for a script in which Homer steals
cable, and we wanted to have this movie actor who comes out and, you know, he
introduces cheesy products, and he's a guy who's been in these terrible
movies. And you know, we were saying, `Well, he should be a combination of
Troy Donahue and Doug McClure. We'll call him Troy McClure,' and often things
aren't, you know, more fleshed out than that.

I would read on "The Sopranos" that, you know, David Chase would know where he
wanted to go with everything at the beginning of the season and it would all
be mapped out and every, you know, thing would be delineated in fine detail.
Well, not us. I mean, I can give you another example which is Principal
Skinner--at one point George Meyer, one of the writers said, `Oh, you know, it
would be interesting if he was a Vietnam veteran,' and it was just a joke and
it went in the script and then it turned into something where it was a great
character trait and it gave him real poignancy and, you know, we rarely, you
know, plan things, but they grow organically like kudzu.

>>> Insert Troy McClure clip here?

805
GROSS: YOU KNOW, KRUSTY THE CLOWN IS THIS REALLY LIKE OLD-TIME JEWISH
VAUDEVILLIAN TYPE OF COMIC--CLOWN, I MEAN. AND FLANDERS IS THE FUNDAMENTALIST
CHRISTIAN NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR. ARE THERE LIKE JEWISH WRITERS AND CHRISTIAN
WRITERS AND CATHOLIC WRITERS AND ATHEIST WRITERS ON THE SHOW WHO, LIKE, KNOW
THEIR TERRITORY?

Mr. JEAN: Primarily the staff throughout the years has been either writers
who are Jewish or Catholic. I'm a lapsed Catholic. The thing that happens is
if you're writing about your own ethnicity then you feel like you can be
funnier and you don't have to worry about political correctness. So, for
example, we did an episode a couple of years ago where we depicted Catholic
heaven, and it was, you know, a bunch of Irishmen fighting. I'm Irish, so I
didn't think that was offensive. I thought it would be really great and, you
know, it kills me every time I see it. And so, you know, I think that's, you
know, the way that these sort of things get into the show.

Flanders, I always say, is designed as someone who's too good to be true and,
you know, I actually believe a lot of people who are fundamentalist Christians
really like the character. And, you know, to me, Flanders is a much better
neighbor than Homer. If I had to pick one to live next to, it would be Ned.
So I find it's a portrait that's not sort of a cheap shot, but actually very
nuanced and respectful.

935
GROSS: HE'S A VERY, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERATE, LOVING FATHER AND A GOOD NEIGHBOR.

Mr. JEAN: And terrific to Homer despite the things that Homer does to him.

GROSS: UH-HUH. BUT WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER SIDES OF HIM THAT YOU'VE DONE
OVER THE YEARS?

Mr. JEAN: Well, like anything, as we, you know, continue to try to think of
stories we get more nuanced, so we have done things lately--we have done
things more recently where we'll have Ned, you know, watch TV and monitor it
for vulgarisms or, you know, we had him making a movie like Mel Gibson's
"Passion of the Christ," which was a Bible story, filming the Bible the way
it's really written, which is pretty violent, and then he got in trouble
because nobody wanted to see it. But we also, you know, make him somebody.
And he has a big part in the movie, where, you know, Bart looks at him and
goes, `He's a wonderful man and everything that I don't see in my own father,
I see in him,' and that's a real conflict in the film.

1020
GROSS: WELL, HE'S ALSO JUST SO FASTIDIOUS. THERE'S A VERY FUNNY MOMENT IN
THE MOVIE, HE'S PUTTING THE KIDS TO BED, AND I THINK HE GIVES THEM A LITTLE
SNACK.

Mr. JEAN: That's my favorite scene in the film. That's my favorite scene in
the film.

GROSS: THEN HE HAS ONE OF THOSE LIKE LITTLE MINIVACUUM CLEANERS THAT HE'S
LIKE VACUUMING THEIR BEDCLOTHES WITH...

Mr. JEAN: Yep.

GROSS: ...as he puts them to bed.

Mr. JEAN: There's a line that he says towards the end of the film where one
of his kids goes, `I wish Homer was my father,' and I pitched then Ned says,
`And I wish you didn't have the devil's curly hair.' But he says it in such a
positive manner. And my wife who has curly hair is like, `Now you've done
it.'

1055
GROSS: YOU KNOW, SPEAKING OF THE BIBLE, THERE'S A JOKE IN THE MOVIE, I HOPE
YOU DON'T MIND TOO MUCH ME GIVING THIS AWAY, WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE FAMILY'S IN
CHURCH, AND I WON'T GIVE AWAY WHAT'S HAPPENING IN CHURCH, BUT ONE OF THE
CHARACTERS SAYS BASICALLY, `WHAT SHOULD WE DO?' AND HOMER HAS THE BIBLE IN HIS
HANDS AND HE SAYS, `I DON'T KNOW. THERE'S NO ANSWERS IN THIS BOOK.'

Mr. JEAN: He said, `This book doesn't have any answers,' and that was my
line.

GROSS: That's your line?

Mr. JEAN: Yes. But what it is, just so people don't misconstrue it, it's
him trying to find a solution for Grandpa, who's having a vision and rolling
around on the floor, so the joke is that he's looking through the Bible like
an owner's manual, you know, so that he can find a button to push and that'll
take care of Grandpa and, you know, obviously then there's the double meaning
that people look for answers to life's problems in the Bible. And it gets a
big laugh every time that we screen the film. And, to me, it's a perfect
example of, you know, the double meaning of, you know, things that we do on
"The Simpsons."

1149
That scene, too, in the film that you're referring to is one at the beginning
of the film where what Jim Brooks wanted to do was he wanted to have a scene
that grabbed you and made you say, `This is where the plot of the movie
starts, 'and it's what often happens on "The Simpsons," where the way the
scene is written, we actually conclude there is a very active God who's taking
a firm interest in the lives of Springfielders and trying to save them from a
terrible fate and we actually, you know, show more activity, you know, by God
in human life and, you know, direct involvement in human affairs than, I would
say, any cartoon on network television.

AND FLOATER
GROSS: My guest is Al Jean, an executive producer and writer of "The
Simpsons" TV show and a producer and writer of the new "Simpsons" Movie. More
after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Announcements)

1230 REID – could keep - GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is Al Jean, and he's been with
"The Simpsons" since the very start, serving in just about every capacity,
mostly running the show, and he's an executive producer and writer of the new
"Simpsons" movie.

1250
LET'S TALK PROCESS A LITTLE BIT. LIKE, CAN YOU JUST LIKE WALK US THROUGH THE
PROCESS OF, SAY, A TYPICAL "SIMPSONS" SHOW, OR OF THE MOVIE--I ASSUME THE
PROCESS WAS VERY SIMILAR. IT PROBABLY STARTS IN THE WRITERS' ROOM, RIGHT?

Mr. JEAN: I will, and it's always the most boring answer I can give to a
question, but I'll try to be quick. What happens is that a writer or a couple
of writers will pitch an idea for an episode and, as the show runner, I decide
which ones we do and don't do, and if it sounds like it's a good idea and I
always think, you know, `Would Jim Brooks like it?' Sometimes I consult with
him directly or, you know, if I think he'll like it, we just go ahead and do
it. And that writer will pitch, with the group of writers, for three days,
just coming up with jokes, a storyline. The writer goes off, does an outline.
I'll read that and give notes with a couple of other producers, tell the
writer how to go off and write the first draft of the script.

Then that draft is rewritten six, seven times before the cast gets to see it.
We really go over it line by line, story point by story point, joke by joke.
We read it with the cast for a group of us that work on the show, then you see
what gets laughs and what doesn't. You see if they're on board for the story.
And, you know, in extreme cases, but not often, you'll go, `Oh, this thing
doesn't work or it's too off-character and we'll have to adjust the story,
too.'

Then we'll rewrite it after all that, record it on the following Monday. The
audiotape is sent to the animation studio where it's storyboarded, and the
storyboards are gone over by me and the writer and they go back and make
what's called an animatic, which is a rough black-and-white version with, you
know, some of the animation in, but not all of it. And that is screened for
us and we rewrite it again and record new audio. And then it's color
animated, and even after the color comes back, we still rewrite it.

1437
A story I always tell is that in the early days of the show we wrote a joke
about the Soviet Union and, before the color came back, the Soviet Union broke
up and we had to change the joke. And you know, because the cartoon lip
movements are, you know, pretty standard, you can really change what they say
and, you know, use the same animation. So the difference between that and the
movie is the movie was a four-year process, and the show, it's a one-year
process.

1500
And, you know, on television you get used to letting things go. You do 22
episodes a year and you work as hard as you can but you have to keep doing
another one every week and you can't just, you know, linger. On the movie, we
didn't let go. We, you know, continued to rewrite it and rewrite it up until
about a month prior to air. I mean, it really--and there were major changes
that came in this year after test screenings that we had. We had them in
Portland and Phoenix and San Diego. So it's a process that never stops.
You're always trying to make it better.
33
1533
GROSS: WHAT'S THE THING IN YOUR CHILDHOOD THAT'S CLOSEST TO THE SIMPSON
FAMILY?

Mr. JEAN: Well, like I say, you know, to me, what's closest in the show is
Lisa, because she is bookish and feels like, you know, people don't understand
her. And when I would go to school I would often think--I was advanced two
grades, so I was usually two years younger than everybody in my classes. And
it had a somewhat alienating effect. You know, I would look at the world and
think I was kind of distant from it. And I believe that's a philosophical
view that a lot of comedy writers have. I've noticed comedy writers are often
taller than average, you know, just in my, you know, statistically
insignificant sample. And I think that, you know, that also contributes to a
sense of they're not exactly you know, attached to the public or the most
popular people and that they often have a distancing that enables them to look
at things and then, you know, satirize them.

1645
GROSS: I HAVE A MARGE AND HOMER QUESTION FOR YOU. YOU KNOW, HOMER'S REALLY
DUMB.

Mr. JEAN: Is he?

GROSS: HE'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO PUT UP WITH SOMETIMES AND, YOU KNOW, MARGE IS
ALWAYS, WELL, OFTEN SO KIND OF LIKE STABLE AND ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE
EVERYBODY MAKE UP AND BE A FAMILY. NO MATTER WHAT HOMER DOES, NO MATTER HOW
STUPID IT IS, AT THE END, HE AND MARGE USUALLY RECONCILE AND THE FAMILY'S BACK
TOGETHER AGAIN.

Mr. JEAN: Always reconcile.

GROSS: ALWAYS RECONCILE. YEAH. DO YOU EVER--IS THERE EVER A PART OF YOU
THAT THINKS, `MARGE, LEAVE HIM. HE'S REALLY STUPID.'

Mr. JEAN: Yes, and this sort of feeling that, you know, we explore a little
in depth in the film, what I think is, you know, one essential basis for the
success of "The Simpsons" is Homer never does anything consciously mean,
especially not to Marge. He's insensitive and he's made every mistake you can
make, but he loves her and he doesn't want to hurt her for anything. And then
on other hand, Marge thinks Homer's the handsomest man she ever met.

1748
GROSS: AND LIKE AS HOMER SAYS IN THE FILM, `YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, I DON'T
THINK ABOUT ANYTHING.'

Mr. JEAN: Yeah. And then he goes, `I respect people who do.' But yeah,
that's a Jim Brooks line and really very funny.

GROSS: So...

Mr. JEAN: Also a good philosophy that a lot of us, I think, obey.

1806
GROSS: BUT THERE ISN'T A PART OF YOU THAT THINKS, `MARGE, LEAVE HIM'?

Mr. JEAN: All then time. Yeah, I mean, you know, there definitely is, you
know, a recurring topic in the writers room, which is, what does she see in
him? And Julie Kavner's really funny because she goes, `Homer must be great
in bed,' and when Julie says it's really funny to hear it coming out of her
voice.

GROSS: YOU KNOW, HE'S PROBABLY NOT, DON'T YOU THINK?

Mr. JEAN: Oh, he is.

GROSS: Yeah?

MR. JEAN: NO, I'M SURE SHE'S RIGHT. YES. I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY CORRECT.

1839
GROSS: CAN ANIMATED CHARACTERS GET AWAY WITH CERTAIN THINGS THAT ACTORS CAN'T
IN A SITCOM?

Mr. JEAN: Absolutely. One of the biggest we always talk about is Homer
strangles his son. I mean, he actually puts his hands around Bart's neck and
chokes him, and I think in real life Homer would go to jail, it would be
horrific. But in a cartoon, he does it and then, you know--I mean Bart's eyes
bug out it's really pretty scary when you look at it. But then he just lets
go and Bart's fine, it's a cartoon and everything's cool.

1906
GROSS: Well, Al Jean, thank you so much for talking with us. I really
appreciate it.

Mr. JEAN: It's been my pleasure.
1910

GROSS: Al Jean is a writer and producer of the new "Simpsons" movie and the
TV show. Here's a scene from the TV series in which Homer is trying to save
the local burlesque house from an angry mob. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of "The Simpsons")

Mr. CASTELLANETA: (As Homer Simpson) Sure, we could tear this house down.

(Soundbite of crowd yelling, glass breaking and other destruction)

Mr CASTELLANETA: (As Homer Simpson) No! My friends, stop. Let me finish.
We could tear it down, but we'd be tearing down a part of ourselves. You
could...

(Singing) You could close down Moe's
Or the Kwik-E-Mart
And nobody would care
But the heart and soul
Of Springfield's in
Are Maisson Derriere

Unidentified Actress: (Singing) We're the sauce on your steak
We're the cheese in your cake

(End of soundbite)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Nancy Cartwright

000 - (Soundbite of "The Simpsons" – Bart, Milhouse & Nelson)

Ms. PAMELA HAYDEN: (As Milhouse) Hey, Bart, look at this. My dad took me to
Circus of Values last night and said I could get anything I wanted.

Ms. NANCY CARTWRIGHT: (As Bart Simpson) Cool, an oversized novelty billiard
ball.

Ms. HAYDEN: (As Milhouse) Yeah, you shake it up and it tells the future.

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: (As Bart Simpson) Really?

Ms. HAYDEN: (As Milhouse) Uh-huh.

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: (As Bart Simpson) Will I pass my English test? "Outlook not
so good." Wow, it does work.

Ms. HAYDEN: (As Milhouse) Let me try. Will I get beat up today? "All signs
point to yes."

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: (As Nelson Muntz) That ball knows everything.

(Soundbite of Milhouse being punched)

(End of soundbite)

GROSS: Two of the characters in that scene from "The Simpsons" TV show, Bart
Simpson and Nelson Muntz, were voiced by my guest Nancy Cartwright. She's
done Bart's voice since the start back when "The Simpsons" was a vignette on
"The Tracey Ullman Show." Cartwright has aged 20 years in the interim, but
Bart has remained 10. Cartwright also does the voices of Ralph Wiggum and
Todd Flanders on "The Simpsons." She's done voices for other cartoons, too.
Now she's a star of the new "Simpsons" movie which opens tomorrow.

32
NANCY CARTWRIGHT, WELCOME TO FRESH AIR. NOW, THE WAY I UNDERSTAND THE STORY,
ALTHOUGH YOU'RE THE VOICE OF BART SIMPSON, WHEN YOU FIRST AUDITIONED FOR "THE
SIMPSONS," YOU AUDITIONED FOR THE VOICE OF LISA. SO HOW DID YOU GO FROM LISA
TO BART?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Yeah, that's right. Well, you know, when I went in there I
was told by my agent that they wanted me to read for this eight-year-old
middle child, and it wasn't really a show, it was an interstitial. And I had
never even heard that word before. So I, you know, queried, like, what is an
interstitial? `Oh, it's just a little mini-entertainment wrapped around a
commercial.' And I thought, `Well, OK, fine. So who am I?' Her name's Lisa
Simpson. She's the eight year old middle child that's trying to put together
this little family. Dan Castellaneta and Julie Kavner from "The Tracey Ullman
Show" have already been cast as the voices for the mom and dad. And so now
they're looking for the kids. So they want you to read for Lisa. And I said,
`Oh, OK, I'll go in.'

And I went in and I saw the script there for Lisa and a picture of her, and it
described her, you know, as an eight-year-old middle child. I read it and it
seemed OK. But, you know, it was alright. No big deal, no teeth, really.
But next to it was this audition of Bart with his picture, and it said,
10-year-old, school hating, you know, underachiever and proud of it. And I
thought, `Oh, my God. That sounds cool.' And I read it and it was just--to me
it just struck the heart of the 10-year-old boy inside me. So I went in and
shook Matt Groening's hand, and I said, you know, `I'm here for Lisa, but I
saw the part for Bart and I'd rather read for him, do you mind?' And he said,
`No, that's fine.' So I gave him one shot, one take, one sound, one voice, and
that was it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Matt,
his eyebrows went up, his tongue came out of his mouth, he's like `Oh, my God,
that's him. That's Bart. That's him. You got the part.' And I was given the
part on the spot.

32
SETUP: TERRY ASKED NANCY CARTWRIGHT HOW SHE GOT THE PART AS BART

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Well, you know, typically, when I've gone in--I've been in
the business since 1981, and I'll get a call for a part on a--at that time it
was just syndicated television. It was Saturday morning fare because there
was no prime time animation in the early '80s. And I would go in for the
Saturday morning, you know, "My Little Pony," "Glow Friends," "Snorks," "Pound
Puppies," "Richie Rich," that kind of stuff. And when I would audition I
would always tend to give three or four different takes on a character because
your idea of what a, you know, an eight-year-old pony sounds like may be
different than the guy sitting next to you. So it'd be smart to give options
and let them know I'm versatile, I can take direction, that kind of thing.

But with Bart, I don't know. It's like, Terry, I had this idea. I read the
script. I got the idea of who this boy was, saw the, you know, the monologue,
and just, boom, I just nailed it on one take, didn't give them anything else.
Insert: So I gave him one shot, one take, one sound, one voice, and
that was it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Matt,
his eyebrows went up, his tongue came out of his mouth, he's like `Oh, my God,
that's him. That's Bart. That's him. You got the part.' And I was given the
part on the spot.
And sometimes it just works out that way.

150
GROSS: SO IS IT--THERE'S NOTHING CONSCIOUS GOING ON WHERE YOU DO THE VOICE,
IT JUST CAME TO YOU?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Yeah, it just--no kidding, when I saw, when I saw the
picture--it really helps when you get the visual image of what the character
looks like--because sometimes you might have a character who's jaw is sticking
out a little bit more on the bottom than it is on the top and he's got this
sort of--there's a placement there so you know that his lower teeth will be
sticking out a little bit farther. So that would help in creating a
character. Or say you've got a seven-year-old kid who's got a split in his
two front teeth or he's missing one of his teeth at age seven. So he would be
talking sort of like this and you could put sort of a sound in there, sort of
like that little actress that played on "Mrs. Doubtfire." So I can steal
from, you know--Mara Wilson, I think was that little actresses name. I
totally ripped that off from her.

239 When I go to the mall or just, you know, people watching, or I go to movies
and watch television, I'm inspired by live action actors and recognizing
sounds and trying to duplicate that. So I'd come up with an arsenal of
characters in my head so then I can then, at the next audition, give them more
options.

259
GROSS: WHAT LINES--WHAT BART LINES DO PEOPLE QUOTE AT YOU MOST OFTEN WHEN
THEY MEET YOU?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Well, when people meet me, and they'll mostly say, `do
Bart.' That's how they--`do Bart, do Bart.' `No way, man,' and everybody's
happy. I'll tell you, it creates such a great effect, because they're blown
away number one, that they heard it, number two, that I did it without them
asking. And I don't--number three, that it shocked them that, I suppose, that
I did it at all.

325
GROSS: SO ONCE YOU WERE CAST, DID THE WRITERS WANT TO HEAR YOU DO BART SO
THAT THEY COULD WRITE FOR YOU IN CHARACTER? OR IN ORDER TO DO BART, DID THE
WRITERS HAVE TO WRITE FOR YOU SO YOU KNEW WHO BART WAS? DO YOU KNOW WHAT I
MEAN? LIKE, YOUR VOICE WOULD HELP TELL THEM WHO THE CHARACTER WAS, BUT THEIR
WRITING WOULD HELP TELL YOU WHO THE CHARACTER WAS.

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: You know what? Here it is. It's a very collaborative
artform. And I believe, probably, it was through the process itself that
there became sort of a 359 – stereo blip - symbiotic relationship between the writing and the
actors. Whereas we would be assigned parts--and, Terry, that's not done.
That is just--I don't know any other show that you would show up at the
beginning--this was like in the early '90s and through the mid-'90s, when all
the citizens of Springfield were being introduced into these scripts--I would
get the script and all of a sudden it would say, Nelson Muntz, Nancy
Cartwright. And I'm like, `Oh, wow.' So the table read is—

433 I would get my script delivered to me at like 2:00 in the morning on Thursday and the script
reading was at 10:00 that same morning. I had really little kids. I didn't
have a lot of time to read the script. I'm like, `Oh, my God. I've got to
come up with a whole character and read this in front of everyone with no
guidance, no direction, nothing. We're just going to read this thing.' And
that's how we did it.

453
GROSS: WELL, WHY DON'T YOU DESCRIBE WHO NELSON IS AND HOW YOU CAME UP WITH
HIS VOICE?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Well, Nelson, he was a bad boy. And I had to read the
script because there's not much of a description in the script. It might say
`bad boy,' but it just--it didn't go into detail on it. So by reading the
script and, you know, putting that in context, I realized he was just--he was
a thug. He was bigger, physically, than Bart. So he was also, I believe
Nelson Muntz is a little bit older, even though he's in the fourth grade.

But I just ended up coming up with the sound that--I think Nelson is sort of
evolved, and it came to the point where he eventually got a really, really
rough sound like that. And he's got a really, really hard Rs. And I don't
know, that's how that sound came. And the laugh, the ha ha, I just say it
very--henh, henh. That was written in the script, and it just said--I think
it actually just said, `ha, ha.' And, I don't know, if somebody else would
have been cast as that, they would have come up with their own idea of what
that would sound like. But when I did that, it got an instant laugh. And so
that stuck. And because, I think, it got that laugh, the writers put a little
asterisk or a little star beside that. And they know that later on they could
do that again, and hopefully it'll continue to get a laugh which, through
trial and error and through experimenting, I don't think anybody said, 'Let's
create a signature laugh for Nelson Muntz.' You know what I mean?

GROSS: Uh-huh.

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: It's just something that's sort of evolved. 630 And I find that
fascinating, too, in looking at the development of "The Simpsons," that a lot
of choices that we had the opportunity to make, they were just opportunities
that we had. Nobody was going out there and saying, `Wow, when I do this,
this is going to become a catchphrase.' The next thing you know this is `smell
you later' that people are going to be saying that, you know.

655
GROSS: WHEN YOU DO THAT GRUFF LIKE NELSON VOICE, DOES THAT HURT YOUR VOCAL
CHORDS AT ALL?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Yeah.

GROSS: Like is there a way of doing that without it hurting?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: You know, he truly is my--he's the most challenging in terms
of my vocal chords. But throughout the years and the 400-plus episodes that
we've done so far, Nelson has only really been a lead character or citizen in
a hand--you know, in just a couple of three. One of my favorite ones was when
he--it was that tribute when he came home and Marge really kind of took him
under his wing and he sang that song, it was a tribute to--it was like a play
on "Yentl." I don't know if I can do it. `Papa, can you hear me,' singing to
his father because his father like left to go get cigarettes or milk or
something at the Kwik-E-Mart. `Papa, is that you? Is that you? Oh, papa.'

GROSS: My guest is Nancy Cartwright. She's the voice of Bart Simpson and
Nelson Muntz. We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Announcements)

GROSS: My guest is Nancy Cartwright. She voices the characters of Bart
Simpson, Nelson Muntz and Todd Flanders on "The Simpsons." Starting tomorrow
you can hear her in the new "Simpsons" movie.

759 – could add TG breath
IN THE NEW "SIMPSONS" MOVIE, AS IN THE TV SHOW, THERE ARE TIMES WHEN HOMER
STRANGLES BART.

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Oh, sure.

GROSS: SO CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT GOES ON BETWEEN YOU AND DAN CASTELLANETA
WHEN HOMER'S STRANGLING BART?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: You know, that's another great one. I remember the first
time that it was written in the script that that happened. And I was just
kidding, I said, `Dan, why don't you come over and help me out?' He did! He
came across this--you know, he was standing on the opposite side of me. He
walked all across the studio, stands behind me. He started choking me. I'm
going...(soundbite of choking). And it like created that, and man it was like
imprinted forever, and that's what we duplicated from then on out.

835
GROSS: AM I RIGHT IN SAYING, BASED ON YOUR DESCRIPTION, THAT WE'RE RECORDING
LIKE THE "SIMPSONS" MOVIE OR THE TV SHOW, THAT ALL THE ACTORS ARE IN A ROOM
TOGETHER, GATHERED AROUND ONE OR TWO MICROPHONES. BUT YOU'RE DOING IT IN REAL
TIME AS A GROUP.

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Yeah, that's absolutely correct.

GROSS: OK.

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Yeah, it's ideal. It's ideal that we're there so we can
kind of play off of each other.

858
GROSS: WHAT'S IT LIKE WHEN YOU'RE DOING BOTH SIDES OF THE CONVERSATION? SAY
LIKE BART'S TALKING TO NELSON.

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Yeah, that's fun. That's really, really fun. There was one
show, I think it was a take on the--I think it was called "Bart's
Commandments" or it was some Ten Commandments show. It was a play on--took
you back in time, and there was a scene where I was--it was Bart, Nelson,
Ralph and Kearney, I believe. And, oh, my God. The scene was like three
pages long, and I was just talking to myself the entire time. I remember
doing it at the table read. I was so nervous to do it in front of that,
there's like 100 people in the room. And I'm doing it, just praying I
wouldn't get confused who I was. And I'd finished my run, and I mean I was
sweating. I was like really perspiring and I was out of breath. There's no
time to even breathe, practically. That is such a challenge.

But if it's just like one scene-- 957 there's one scene where Bart had a Mr.
Microphone and he was in the bottom of the well pretending like he was
somebody else. And Rod and Todd Flanders were next door and they were picking
him up on their radio. And Bart's like `Rod, Todd, this is God.' `What are
you doing on our radio?' `What do you mean, what am I doing on the radio. I
created the universe, stupid kids.' `What do you want from us?' `I want you to
go to the kitchen and bring forth all of the cookies from your kitchen.' 'But
those are our parents' cookies.' `What do you want a happy God or a vengeful
God?' `Happy God. Happy God.' `Then bring forth the cookies.' `Yes, sir.'

It's a challenge, but it's fun.

1037
GROSS: That's so great. (transition not great from TG laffing)

1038
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE DIFFERENCES FOR YOU DOING THE
VOICES FOR "THE SIMPSONS MOVIE" COMPARED TO THE TV SHOW? WAS IT ANY
DIFFERENT?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Yeah, it was a little bit different. The TV show, just
technically we have only one mike. It's one mike in front of us. That's it.
For the feature film we had two. And if you think about it, you know, a movie
theater is a pretty big space, so they want to get the sound, the clarity of
the vocals very precise. So we had two mikes. And the only other thing that
was really different was, in terms of directing, for the television show, we
would do four takes per scene. And in the feature film, oh man, we would do
20, 30 takes sometimes, just really trying to give a lot of options to Jim
Brooks or Mike Scully or Al Jean so that they were really satisfied that they
got every ounce of, you know, possible interpretation out of that line.

1145
GROSS: YEAH, SO TELL ME MORE LIKE WHAT DIRECTION IS LIKE FOR AN ANIMATED
FILM?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: I'll tell you. This is another thing that's something I
had--I'm really glad I kept my mouth shut on this because I'd been working on
Saturday morning fare and, you know, we didn't have rehearsals for our
scripts. And to do a half hour animated cartoon for a Saturday morning show,
it took about, you know, like an hour and a half, two hours at the most to do
one script. Well, very early on in "The Simpsons" we'd go in at 10:00 in the
morning and we wouldn't finish till 9:00 at night. That was, to me, that was
ridiculous. I'm like, `Oh, my God. These people have no idea what they're
doing. Why isn't anybody asking me?' So I felt I'm the expert here.

But I'm so glad I kept my mouth shut, Terry, because it just, it evolved. And
the group kind of came up with our own rules of how we were going to do this.
And there was a group agreement as to how the production was going to go. So
it would start at 10 and end at 9:00. And then the second year it started at
10 and we'd end at 6:00. And as we evolved we got better and more confident
and more sure about what we were doing so the process was actually speeded up.
Now we're in at 10 and we're out at 2.

1312
GROSS: IS THERE EVER A TIME WHEN YOU'RE GIVEN A SCRIPT AND YOU'RE THINKING,
`I REALLY NEED TO SEE A VISUAL TO GET WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, TO GET WHAT BART
IS ACTUALLY EXPERIENCING?'

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Wow. That's another great question. No. Actually, no.
But I think partially is that after--especially after all these years--we can
totally visualize what's going on. But you've just got to do your homework.
You've just got to be prepared and know that if Bart is, you know, on a
skateboard or he's like riding his bicycle over a cliff and down a hill, that
there's going to be...(soundbite of grunting)..you know, I just visualize it,
and like, `How many seconds of this do you want?' `Well, make it a little bit
longer. Do it again, but make it longer. And, Nancy, you know what? This
isn't a show about him riding, you know, his bicycle over a cliff. Just cut
it. You've got to cut it out. Give me just about a tenth of that.' `OK,
good, no problem.' Because I don't know about the length of time for the
animation.

1413
GROSS: NOW, YOUR MENTOR WAS DAWS BUTLER, WHO WORKED FOR HANNA-BARBERA, DOING
A LOT OF THE GREAT VOICES, YOGI BEAR, HUCKLEBERRY HOUND, QUICK DRAW MCGRAW,
ELROY JETSON. HOW WERE YOU LUCKY ENOUGH TO MEET HIM?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Yeah. Oh, my gosh, that's right. I was working at this
radio station and--long story short, I connected up with someone who gave me
her business card and she forwarded my letter onto somebody else who then
wrote me back and in a letter was his name and phone number. And I called him
up. And he had an answering machine. And this was like in '77. We didn't
have answering machines in Dayton, Ohio. But this was Hollywood, you know.
So I called him up and listened to his message. And it was a kind of uptight
kind of a butler guy, `Hello, this is Percival Pickles, Mr. Butler's butler.
Leave your name and address and leave your message, and he'll get back to you.
Wait for the beep. Beep.' And I listened to that thing, and I'm like, `Oh my
God,' `Hello, Mr. Butler, this is Nancy Cartwright of Dayton, Ohio.' And I
just did a little character in return and left my, you know, left my address.
And then I hung up the phone. I left my address. I said `Just send me--I
said something like, `please send me some information about your workshop, I'm
interested in doing that, so pip, pip, cheerio,' and I hung up the phone.

And I thought, `You know, that was stupid. Why didn't I just leave my phone
number?' So I called him back. And I'm telling you--something like that, I
think that impinges on somebody. He listened to my messages and, sure enough,
he called me back. And here we are talking on the phone and he's telling me a
little bit about his workshop, and he said, `I'll just you send me something.
Why don't I send you something. You take a look at it and see what you think,
maybe you could put it on tape and send me the tape of it.' And I'm thinking,
`Oh, my God. You've got to be kidding me. Wow. OK, I'll do it. And thank
you. Thank you, Mr. Butler.' And hung up the phone and that started a long
distance student/mentor relationship that continued until I, like about a year
or so later, I knew I had to get out of there. I wanted to go be with him.
So I...

GROSS: And did you do that?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Yeah. I transferred. I told my mom and dad I wanted to
move to California and you're going to go with me and, you know, I'll transfer
to UCLA. And I got accepted and got in their theater department. But I lived
for the Sundays that I caught the bus and went in Westwood, and I road the bus
to Beverly Hills, and hopped off and walked a couple of blocks to his house.
He converted his garage into a studio, and I'd go back there for a one-hour
lesson that lasted like the whole afternoon. He and his wife pretty much took
me under their wings and--I mean, this was like, this guy really, really cared
for me. It was pretty special relationship.

1702
GROSS: WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU LEARNED BY WATCHING DAWS BUTLER
WORK? I ASSUME LIKE MAYBE YOU WENT WITH HIM TO HANNA-BARBERA AND WATCHED HIM
RECORD CARTOONS, OR WAS HE RETIRED BY THEN?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Let's see, when he took me to Hanna--no, he wasn't retired.
He was still doing--he was doing like "Popeye." I think he was Wimpy, the guy
that eats all the hamburgers.

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: He was doing that. He was still doing Elroy. They were
still doing the "Jetsons" believe it or not. Here Daws well into his 70s
and--well, for that matter, Mel Blanc, same thing. He was into his 70s. And
George O'Hanlon, who did the voice of George Jetson, he was in his 80s and
still doing it. This is what amazes me. OK. I'm about five Barts' worth.
I'm way, way younger than like being into my 70s. Look at "The Simpsons,"
going, `Wow, is it possible that we could still be around for another 20
years?' But you know what? Dave Mirkin at 200 episodes, Dave Mirkin said it
at one of the table reads, `Well, we're halfway there.' And it got a huge
laugh, and look where it's led.

TG laffs

GROSS: My guest is Nancy Cartwright, the voice of Bart Simpson. We'll talk
more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Announcements)

GROSS: My guest is Nancy Cartwright. She voices the characters of Bart
Simpson, Nelson Muntz and Todd Flanders on "The Simpsons." Starting tomorrow,
you can hear her in the new "Simpsons" movie.

1817 – add TG breath (after laff)
You said earlier that, you know, that a lot of friends of yours who have
children or, you know, people you're just meeting have children will introduce
the kids to you and say, `This is Nancy Cartwright and she does the voice of
Bart. And then they'll expect you to do the voice of Bart for the kids.' What
about your own kids? I mean, they grew up while you were doing "The
Simpsons." Did they do like `Mommy, Mommy, do Bart for us?'

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: As a parent you kind of wonder what kind of influence you
have on your kids in everything that you're doing, whether it's traveling, you
know, to different countries or whatever. But when my son, Jack, was two
years old they had come out with a Bart Simpson--it was a prototype to see if
like a talking Bart doll would work. But the string on the thing was a little
short so it sort of sounded like Bart on helium because it was like `don't
have a cow man, don't have a cow man.' But my son would pull the string and it
would say that, and he would look at the string and then he'd look at me.
He'd pull it again, `don't have a cow man.' And he would look at me, and he
said to me, `Mommy, I don't see you in there. I don't see you in there.' He's
two years old! I'm telling you, that is the concept.

Parents will come up to me, and you know, I know that they really--they want
to hear me do the voice. But there's a three-year-old clutching onto Mama's
skirt and they're saying, `Could you do it for Sally?' And I'm thinking, I'll
just tell the parents I don't have thing vested in this for a three-year-old
kid that looks scared to death. If I was to lean down and say, `Hi, I'm Bart
Simpson, who the hell are you?' You think that kid is going to like it? She'd
look at me like I'm, you know, an alien. They get upset. So I'll just say,
`Look, I'll do it for you, but I'm not going to do it for your child.' I just
think that that's wrong. It's too big of a concept.

GROSS: WELL, WHY DO THEY GET SO UPSET?

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Well, it's just--it's too big of a concept. They're looking
at this woman who--they might watch "The Simpsons," but a child, I don't--I
really think that they are watching it through a child's eyes, and they enjoy
the colors and they like the different expressions and emotions that they see.
Whereas, you know, a teenager will cull something totally different out of
that. They will start to recognize references. And, of course, adults, I
mean, we can get the satire. We can get more, you know, of history and even
more references than a teenager would get. So there's the whole
cross-generational span of "The Simpsons" that entertains those audiences.
But a kid, I don't know, man. I don't know how old I was before I realized
that those sounds came from actors. It's a concept that's pretty, you
know--I'd say five and under--this is just a gross generalization, there are
exceptions to the rule, no doubt about it, but generally speaking, I use some
discretion on who I just throw that voice to.

2119
GROSS: Well, Nancy Cartwright, it's just been so much fun to talk with you.
Thank you so very much.

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: Yeah. You bet.
2123

GROSS: Nancy Cartwright does the voice of Bart Simpson. The new "Simpsons"
movie opens tomorrow. I'm Terry Gross. We'll close with another scene from
"The Simpsons" TV show.

(Soundbite from "The Simpsons")

Mr. HANK AZARIA: (As Apu) Hello, gents, what will it be?

Ms. HAYDEN: (As Milhouse) Apu, give us a Super Squishy.

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: (As Bart Simpson) One that's made entirely out of syrup.

Mr. AZARIA: (As Apu) Entirely out of...

(Soundbite of gasps)

Mr. AZARIA: (As Apu) An all-syrup Super Squishy? Oh, su--such a thing has
never been done.

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: (As Bart Simpson) Just make it happen.

Mr. AZARIA: (As Apu) Oh, dear.

(Soundbite of mixing, preparation)

(Soundbite of music)

(Soundbite of bubbling)

Mr. AZARIA: (As Apu) No, she won't hold! She's breaking up!

(Soundbite of ding)

Mr. AZARIA: (As Apu) All done. If you survive, please come again.

(Soundbite of whooping, cheering)

Ms. HAYDEN: (As Milhouse) It's so thick.

(Soundbite of inhaling, sipping)

Ms. HAYDEN: (As Milhouse) Your turn, Bart.

(Soundbite of inhaling)

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: (As Bart Simpson) Whoa, that's good squishy. Guh!

Ms HAYDEN: (As Milhouse) What's it like, Bart? Bart? Bart?

(Soundbite of Bart making noises with his lips)

Ms. HAYDEN: (As Milhouse) Give me that! Whew!

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: (As Bart Simpson) OK. We're young, rich and full of sugar.
What do we do?

Ms. HAYDEN: (As Milhouse) Let's go crazy, Broadway-style!

(Soundbite of music)

Ms. HAYDEN: (As Milhouse) Hunh! Yeah!

Ms. HAYDEN and Ms. CARTWRIGHT: (As Milhouse and Bart, singing in unison)
Springfield, Springfield, it's a hell of a town The schoolyard's up and the
shopping mall's down The stray dogs go to the animal pound

Springfield, Springfield Springfield, Springfield

Unidentified Actor: (Singing in character) New York, New York!

Ms. CARTWRIGHT: (As Bart Simpson) New York is that-a-way, man!

Actor: (In character) Thanks, kid!

Ms. HAYDEN and Ms. CARTWRIGHT: (As Milhouse and Bart, singing in unison)
It's a hell of a town!

(Soundbite of music)

(End of soundbite)
Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.